Nerfing The Super Characters

poptdp said:
honestly i dont know why people hate nerfing so much. think about it, the more u nerf people, the longer the match can go :)
i dont think any combo should be over 40-45% MAX, meaning that the opponent will have to do it AT LEAST twice on u to win the match, giving u a chance. if u still lose, then it means they were the better player.
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Nerfing does nothing but weaken a character. Which helps nothing. If there are some characters that are overpowered, instead of nerfing them, work on the ones that are not as strong. Then everyone should be happy.
 
Immortal Reaver said:
Raiden and Kung Lao need to be ****ing nerfed hardcore, anyone who thinks they are balanced is the biggest dumbass ever when it comes to fighting games.
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They don't NEED any nerfing. No one NEEDS a nerf. The game is perfectly playable. Sure nerfs would help the beginners handle kombatants like Cyrax, Raiden, and KL, but in NO WAY ARE THEY NEEDED. If you lose to a scrub KL player and just pass it off as him being OP or broken, you, my good sir, are the biggest dumbass when it comes to fighting games.

Some characters will just have more tools than others. You guys need to GET OVER IT. A good player can adapt to any matchup, whether it be not in their characters' favor, or it be against a "higher tier" character. If you can't, you immediately cry NERF NERF, I CAN'T DEAL WITH SOMEONE USING MAYBE NOT THE SAME EFFORT THAT I DO AND THEY STILL WIN.

And I wouldn't call people dumbasses when you think KL is unacceptable and should be nerfed, but Cyrax is fine :s
 
BrokenJanders said:
They don't NEED any nerfing. No one NEEDS a nerf. The game is perfectly playable. Sure nerfs would help the beginners handle kombatants like Cyrax, Raiden, and KL, but in NO WAY ARE THEY NEEDED. If you lose to a scrub KL player and just pass it off as him being OP or broken, you, my good sir, are the biggest dumbass when it comes to fighting games.

Some characters will just have more tools than others. You guys need to GET OVER IT. A good player can adapt to any matchup, whether it be not in their characters' favor, or it be against a "higher tier" character. If you can't, you immediately cry NERF NERF, I CAN'T DEAL WITH SOMEONE USING MAYBE NOT THE SAME EFFORT THAT I DO AND THEY STILL WIN.

And I wouldn't call people dumbasses when you think KL is unacceptable and should be nerfed, but Cyrax is fine :s
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Well put BrokenJanders
 
Shirayuki Mizore said:
Do you main all the suggestions to nerfing? Lol c'mon man you have to admit that characters like Cyrax, Kung Lao, and Raiden need to be nerfed
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the OP overextended the severity by a freaking mile.

at this point the only thing that could be changed on raiden is to make his teleport slightly slower so we arent stuck in this online issue, his teleport is fastest ingame, and while that makes for more unique gameplay it also screws up online play because its just a tad bit too fast.

cyrax is getting his resets removed, or at least his 100% gauranteed ones (the ones that were actualy broken), im unaware if resets are considered broken mechanics by nrs or not, seems a lot of chars have them, but most are very escapable while cyraxes were not.

kung lao just has a little bit too much of everything, with a little bit too much priority on everything. his spin should be punished by low pokes. you may not think thats enough but just let that happen and watch the results, youd be suprised.

im for balance in this game, not for the morbidly incorrect drama posed by the OP.
 
Kung Lao can be easily zoned. DONT rush in like an idiot try to pull off combos or prepare to be punished with a spin. Watch for his teleport... Its EASILY predictable and can easily be punished with an uppercut. The best way to beat a Kung Lao player is to play keep away.
 
Kung Lao does not need nerf when it comes to his moves (his spin is punishable enough) but his INSANE mix-up combos. It's crazy such a good character already has freaking lows and overheads all over the place. THAT is his problem for me.

Raiden I see as simply annoying. I would ONLY nerf his superman recovery. It is not consistent. Sometimes he stands near you, sometimes away from you, which makes it quite hard to punish.

Cyrax resets are INSANE. It's crazy he can throw bombs and net over and over again. They should at least avoid a second net to work. In my opinion, his damage needs to be nerf desperately. Who care he doesn't have viable meterless wake-up specials? LOL Shang Tsung and Sheeva are a LOT worst in that field and I don't see you screaming for them to be buffed.
 
aedanwolfe said:
sorry but i had to be clear just how much i disagreed, to the point where the insult...was needed.

i also dont look at it as a disagreement, your just flat out wrong.
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Actually, OP is pretty much right except about Nightwolf and Kano. Kano is only really strong online because of lag. And while it's true that Nightwolf doesn't really have bad matchups, he isn't that dominant either. But Kung Lao, Raiden, Kabal, Reptile, Freddy and Cyrax currently are.

I think they all need to be nerfed to some extent except maybe for Reptile, he's a very good character but not overpowered/broken like the others. Cyrax's damage potential needs to be tone down, but in return they need to give him something to make sure he remains tourney viable. Kabal doesn't need much change, they just need to fix his glitched projectiles. KL and Raiden are harder to balance because they are so broken design wise. They don't need damage nerfs, they need different properties like less pushback on block or smaller hitboxes etc.

btw according to top player REO who placed 2nd at EVO 2011, here are Kung Lao's match ups:

7 vs Baraka
5 vs Cyber Sub Zero
5 vs Cyrax
6 vs Ermac
6 vs Jade
6 vs Jax
6 vs Johnny Cage
5 vs Kabal
6 vs Kano
7 vs Kenshi
5 vs Kitana
5 vs Kung Lao
6 vs Liu Kang
7 vs Mileena
7 vs Nightwolf
6 vs Noob
8 vs Quan Chi
5 vs Raiden
7 vs Rain
6 vs Reptile
6 vs Scorpion
6 vs Sektor
7 vs Shang Tsung
8 vs Sheeva
8 vs Sindel
7 vs Skarlet
6 vs Smoke
6 vs Sonya
7 vs Stryker
6 vs Subzero

I see a lot of 7s and 8s which in fighting game term pretty much means it's a doom matchup for the other character.
 
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Nerfs I would give Kung Lao:

1. Give Low Hat more recovery frames.
2. Reduce the hitbox size of his Spin (which is ridiculously huge).
3. Slightly reduce the pushback of Spin on block to make it easier to punish for less fortunate characters.
4. Fix the glitch where KL keeps armor after EN teleport.


Raiden:

1. Less blockstun on some strings.
2. Smaller hitbox on superman.
3. A few vulnerable frames on teleport start up (I'm thinking like 3-5 frames top).


Kabal:

1. Fix his projectiles and give them actual vulnerable start up frames.
2. Slightly reduce ground saw's recovery to compensate.
3. Reduce the amount of meter gained from some normals or gas blast.


Cyrax:

1. Make the bomb after the buzzsaw not pop up the grounded opponent preventing Cyrax from comboing further.
2. Increased damage scaling every time a bomb/net hits.
3. Give him a better wake up to compensate (like super armor on EN teleport or whatever).


Freddy Kruger:

1. Make projectiles not go through him.
2. General damage nerf.
3. Reduce amount of hitstun/blockstun on some attacks.
 
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I doubt I'll convince anyone I'm not bias but Reptile is fine how he is. His normals take time to master, his higher combo's need great skill to pull off and his slow walk and dash speed balance him out. I say this as someone who plays him 24/7, not as someone who just likes him and makes assumptions.

Besides all that he's not well rounded. He's all about attacking from range and hardly anything else. A lot of other characters have many more options when fighting.
 
Reptile and Nightwolf are what I call near perfect examples of a balanced fighter. They have tools to deal with nearly anything without being over the top. Powerful and viable, but not invincible.
 
Vulcan Hades said:
Nerfs I would give Kung Lao:

1. Give Low Hat more recovery frames.
2. Reduce the hitbox size of his Spin (which is ridiculously huge).
3. Slightly reduce the pushback of Spin on block to make it easier to punish for less fortunate characters.
4. Fix the glitch where KL keeps armor after EN teleport.


Raiden:

1. Less blockstun on some strings.
2. Smaller hitbox on superman.
3. A few vulnerable frames on teleport start up (I'm thinking like 3-5 frames top).


Kabal:

1. Fix his projectiles and give them actual vulnerable start up frames.
2. Slightly reduce ground saw's recovery to compensate.
3. Reduce the amount of meter gained from some normals or gas blast.


Cyrax:

1. Make the bomb after the buzzsaw not pop up the grounded opponent preventing Cyrax from comboing further.
2. Increased damage scaling every time a bomb/net hits.
3. Give him a better wake up to compensate (like super armor on EN teleport or whatever).


Freddy Kruger:

1. Make projectiles not go through him.
2. General damage nerf.
3. Reduce amount of hitstun/blockstun on some attacks.
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I don't even know how Kabal was thrown in there. He is PERFECTLY balanced... His gas ball is punishable on the ground, as is the buzz saw if they are avoided.

I have never had trouble with a Kabal player that wasn't better than me
 
what if they made Kabal's buzzsaws more like the mk3 ones. Where they made a loud-ass noise,giving you somewhat of a warning. Or would that ruin the whole move for some of you?
 
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