Bad Manner Professionals: Good for growing the scene?

Critical-Limit said:
if it makes you feel any better Clockwork the guy he was making fun of at the beginning.

beat him in a 3,000 dollar money match.
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Yeah I saw that in the related and had to click. I've watched him get perfected on twice now lol. Like I said in the edit though, I guess every series needs an *******. It was 3000 dollars though?!
 
Viking_Poodle said:
Yeah I saw that in the related and had to click. I've watched him get perfected on twice now lol. Like I said in the edit though, I guess every series needs an *******. It was 3000 dollars though?!
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dude out of every fighting game series I've ever heard about money matches.

Those Marvel Vs Capcom two guys are banking or something. They actually OFTEN do high dollar money matches. The highest Money match i've ever done was 50 bucks lol.
 
I posted a story about a douche player that I knew long ago. Those types of people who are so full of themselves that they talk trash before, during, after a match. Those types are the best to beat because a wounded pride nearly destroys them.
 
At my first out of state Smash tournament, some player was infuriated by a lost set, and he pitched his controller at the nearest wall. It was extremely sudden, as he showed no signs of irritation prior. He proceeded to call his opponent a 'scrub', and went on in a sour, dysphemistic rant about how he could lose to such a player. It can be vexing for me online, and I exhibit tendencies similar to Jade, but I NEVER do it offline, or even hint at my vexation. I'm not that vindictive, or concerned, even.
 
Jerks may make some people motivated to improve themselves (to defeat the said jerk), but many more people would turn away. I think the community should encourage the growth of players at all levels. Players vary in the their execution, knowledge, etc. Constructive criticism fosters learning and is a hell of a lot more friendlier and mature than "You suck NOOB!" Alas, the people who are willing to go out of their way to help are rare and not everybody is humble enough to take criticism.

On the flip side, high-level competition tends to attract big egos. These people are aggressive, driven to be the best, and have supreme confidence to go with it. You see that in professional sports with athletes either swelling with pride when things look good or throwing temper tantrums when things don't go in their favor.
 
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Personally, I think gloating at being 'awesome' at video games is the height of being pathetic. Yes, there are for-cash, prestigious national-level tournaments and leagues. Yes, it requires a specialized set of honed skills. But at the end of the day, you are playing video games. It's never something I thought anyone should take too much pride in, since it's a skillset with no intrinsic worth. I don't know if it's a fault of mine, but I can't bring myself to view high level competitive gaming too seriously. Talking big about gaming has always seemed to me a means of compensating for not being good at anything else (like a real sport or vocation/career). I instantly associate people who actually seriously talk of 'how hard I pwned this scrub/n00b' with not having a life and getting blue in the face when they don't get their way.

Let's put it this way; while I love games, if someone tried to impress me and pick me up by saying they've won at this or that tournament etc, I'd laugh in their face.
 
People are stimulated in different ways. Most people have an activity that has no other use except for personal enjoyment and/or socializing. It doesn't matter if it's golf, chess, poker, music, or fine arts. Competitive players are still in it for fun, except they enjoy striving to be the best at the same time.
 
I didn't say I don't understand why people play games. :/ My own gaming endeavors have no practical application (by the way, FV, I hope you aren't implying gaming and the fine arts have the same amount of contribution to society...). What I'm saying is there's no basis for some of the excessive braggadocio and asinine attitude I see regularly from gamers both in person and online. There are also, like Critical, some exceptionally cool people involved with gaming. It's a mixed bag.

Personally, I think the attitude of a lot of gamers these days has ruined gaming for a lot of people. People get too worked up over it; it's stupid. It's a game, and competition should be friendly, even if you're 'playing for keeps'. You'll rarely if ever see someone call another person a scrub, throw controllers/implements or otherwise shout excuses as to why they may have lost at something like a target shooting match comp or high level golf tournament, auto-X, any level of Rally (the latter two of which shouldn't be confused with immature street racers who sometimes show up to, and are rapidly made unwelcome at regionally or nationally sanctioned club events), etc. I just see gaming in general as lacking in professionalism. Maybe it has to do with the average age of competitors or the overall youth of the scene.

But, really, none of it is a surprise. People blow, period, the end.

Edit: Goddamn, I had to edit this like five times because my keyboard isn't picking up certain keystrokes. FML.
 
Couldnt agree more with you. I feel bad attitudes, im guilty of this too and the gloating smug attitudes of some people also ruin
 
Freyith said:
I didn't say I don't understand why people play games. :/ My own gaming endeavors have no practical application (by the way, FV, I hope you aren't implying gaming and the fine arts have the same amount of contribution to society...). What I'm saying is there's no basis for some of the excessive braggadocio and asinine attitude I see regularly from gamers both in person and online. There are also, like Critical, some exceptionally cool people involved with gaming. It's a mixed bag.

Personally, I think the attitude of a lot of gamers these days has ruined gaming for a lot of people. People get too worked up over it; it's stupid. It's a game, and competition should be friendly, even if you're 'playing for keeps'. You'll rarely if ever see someone call another person a scrub, throw controllers/implements or otherwise shout excuses as to why they may have lost at something like a target shooting match comp or high level golf tournament, auto-X, any level of Rally (the latter two of which shouldn't be confused with immature street racers who sometimes show up to, and are rapidly made unwelcome at regionally or nationally sanctioned club events), etc. I just see gaming in general as lacking in professionalism. Maybe it has to do with the average age of competitors or the overall youth of the scene.

But, really, none of it is a surprise. People blow, period, the end.

Edit: Goddamn, I had to edit this like five times because my keyboard isn't picking up certain keystrokes. FML.
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In soccer, tempers flare occasionally with athletes and coaches, which can range from heated quarrels to physical assault. Some fans/spectators are not any better: getting into fights with supporters of the opposing team, vandalism, and other forms of thuggish behavior. Despite all of that, the sport is a national obsession depending on where you live.

I take your beef is more with the current video game community than the activity itself? I personally don't have a problem with people who want to take their game more seriously. This should not be confused with poor displays of sportsmanship, as there are many who play at a casual level with bad attitudes. I think it's okay to have pride as long one doesn't irritate others by rubbing it in their faces.
 
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They're have been douchebag players since the invention of games in general I would say its one of humanities ancient traditions. If we wanted to deterr it in the beginning we should have fed ancient douche bags to lions or beat them with rocks.
 
Freyith said:
Personally, I think gloating at being 'awesome' at video games is the height of being pathetic. Yes, there are for-cash, prestigious national-level tournaments and leagues. Yes, it requires a specialized set of honed skills. But at the end of the day, you are playing video games. It's never something I thought anyone should take too much pride in, since it's a skillset with no intrinsic worth. I don't know if it's a fault of mine, but I can't bring myself to view high level competitive gaming too seriously. Talking big about gaming has always seemed to me a means of compensating for not being good at anything else (like a real sport or vocation/career). I instantly associate people who actually seriously talk of 'how hard I pwned this scrub/n00b' with not having a life and getting blue in the face when they don't get their way.

Let's put it this way; while I love games, if someone tried to impress me and pick me up by saying they've won at this or that tournament etc, I'd laugh in their face.
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It may not have productive to society WORTH, outside of pure entertainment. But I take pride and love the mind vs mind aspect of competitive gaming.

Sports is not a fair comparison as sports is more of a test of physical abilities a bit more than strategy IMO. I mean you can have a wicked good plan in basket ball, but if you lack physically you can't succeed.

Video games give a huge layer of depth if given in outhinking your opponent, and not only outthinking them but doing it quickly.

StarCraft for example at a pro level, requires a RIDICULOUS amount of multitasking. averaging 400 actions per minute. 6 actions you are giving the game per second. Whether it's micro'ing/ macro'ing doing upgrades moving scouts, flanking, attackign 3 spots at once to divide attention, while maintaining building a steady stream of workers and units out of 8-9 buildings. And not just stacking them back to back as that is a waste of money. You need to wait til the first set are done befoer building a new set, as idle money is wasted because it's not already invested into something. all while doing baits and mind tricks like building a building to make your opponent think your going a certain tech then doing something completely different.

Not many sports I know can offer a workout for your brain of this caliber. thining about like 15 things at once and keeping up with it... for hours upon hours. You'd be surprised how easily your brain can get fatigued in this game. I've seen people THROW away matches in pools, just to avoid fatigue for their harder matches later.

Video games is more about the mind + Hand/eye coordination. or even ear/hand coordination. I'm not saying physical sports doesn't have it's fair share of mind vs mind, but it's not on the same level as games. When I played football it was all about how fast I could run, not whether or not I could outthink the guys trying to tackle me. in Video games it's like chess, I have to think 5-6 moves ahead.

EDIT:
ON a side note I agree with your PURE point btw. Gloating over a "video game" is nothing special. Come gloat to me when you save lives putting your own at risk. Come gloat to me when you get an education and run for a political position to help the country. Come gloat to me when you win the lottery and give 80% of your earnings to increase education funding to make learning a bit more higher quality.

Come gloat to me when you help change someone's life for the better....

I'm sure you get the point of mine that's backing up your point.

the above was just me defending competitive gaming and how it's not any worse or better than physical contact sports. They are two different fields... BOTH 100% for entertainment value.
 
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For what it's worth, while I wasn't specifically only saying that I think it's not on the caliber of professional sports, I do think some sports have more inherent worth to society as they not only encourage physical fitness (which, in this country is severely lacking, even the thinnest, most 'fit' state in the US can only claim that 1/6ths of adults are morbidly obese!) but also contribute to technology and science development in the areas of safety, materials science, and engineering. Take a look at Formula 1. It's the highest level of motorsport racing, where just designing the cars has led to innovations applied to road cars and aircraft, developed new safety devices, and further advanced our materials science (specifically how we use and understand carbon fiber and lightweight metals for load-bearing and high-stress components).

I never said that competitive gaming doesn't require a specialized skill set or isn't difficult; I find it unfortunate that whenever I do say to someone that I think it's not something that people should be too proud of, their counter-argument is that it's difficult. Plenty of things are difficult, but not necessarily useful. I'm glad competitive gaming exists though, it furthers the industry as a whole, and can encourage cooperation, socialization, and broadens the gaming scene. But adding the negative aspects of professional entertainment (sponsorships, corporate rivalry, unwarranted trash talk, the entire money element) to me isn't the greatest thing to happen to it. That said, I will never be amazing at any video game, because I'm too interested in more real-life, concrete things to dedicate the kind of time it takes to be competitive, like motorsport, writing, exercise, target shooting, music, etc.

But it's like you said, people can gloat all they want if they're doing something worthwhile for the world. I'd gladly listen to one of our G.I.s gloat about being a badass out in the sandbox putting the bad guys in boxes, or firemen talk about saving lives and how we shouldn't be stupid with flammable objects, lol.
 
The only thing bad for this community is all the drama. Seriously I love TYM but that place is like damn Middle School.

Today there was like a five page argument over something that happened last EVO, which only reset the match and then the guy lost his previous win.

That and the whole East Coast vs. West Coast and USA vs. Europe shit. That does not help build a scene at all.
 
Zoidberg747 said:
The only thing bad for this community is all the drama. Seriously I love TYM but that place is like damn Middle School.

Today there was like a five page argument over something that happened last EVO, which only reset the match and then the guy lost his previous win.

That and the whole East Coast vs. West Coast and USA vs. Europe shit. That does not help build a scene at all.
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That's East Coast america for you Zoid. When they're not taking potshots at EU, they then take shots at everyone else in America.
 
I would say the feeling is mutual between all parts of the US. Regional rivalries come in all shapes in sizes, whether it be who has amassed the most wealth or who has the best sports teams. My guess the appeal is in having a sense of belonging, even though I think people take things too far for something seemingly petty.
 
Freyith said:
For what it's worth, while I wasn't specifically only saying that I think it's not on the caliber of professional sports, I do think some sports have more inherent worth to society as they not only encourage physical fitness (which, in this country is severely lacking, even the thinnest, most 'fit' state in the US can only claim that 1/6ths of adults are morbidly obese!) but also contribute to technology and science development in the areas of safety, materials science, and engineering. Take a look at Formula 1. It's the highest level of motorsport racing, where just designing the cars has led to innovations applied to road cars and aircraft, developed new safety devices, and further advanced our materials science (specifically how we use and understand carbon fiber and lightweight metals for load-bearing and high-stress components).

I never said that competitive gaming doesn't require a specialized skill set or isn't difficult; I find it unfortunate that whenever I do say to someone that I think it's not something that people should be too proud of, their counter-argument is that it's difficult. Plenty of things are difficult, but not necessarily useful. I'm glad competitive gaming exists though, it furthers the industry as a whole, and can encourage cooperation, socialization, and broadens the gaming scene. But adding the negative aspects of professional entertainment (sponsorships, corporate rivalry, unwarranted trash talk, the entire money element) to me isn't the greatest thing to happen to it. That said, I will never be amazing at any video game, because I'm too interested in more real-life, concrete things to dedicate the kind of time it takes to be competitive, like motorsport, writing, exercise, target shooting, music, etc.

But it's like you said, people can gloat all they want if they're doing something worthwhile for the world. I'd gladly listen to one of our G.I.s gloat about being a badass out in the sandbox putting the bad guys in boxes, or firemen talk about saving lives and how we shouldn't be stupid with flammable objects, lol.
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Meh, a few things here and there that people say video games have helped people do good as well.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...s-research-that-puzzled-scientists-for-years/

It's also largely said Doctors who play video games are more precise in surgery.

You could also argue Video games help advance other forms of media. Do you think people would try as hard or get to advanced graphics as fast to enhance your movie experience if it wasn't for video games? Or make better/faster computers for personal use? Gamers almost always need top of the line computers to play video games properly, thus putting the need/want to advance computer science.

Also bad mannerism isn't a trait only of video games. I've seen plent of sports athletes be dicks. Like a guy putting his hand out to help up the opposing team and the guy slaps his hand away and gets up by himself ect ect.

The multitasking thing about Starcraft doesn't ONLY help you with starcraft. The fact that I play Starcraft has helped my mind be able to think ahead QUIcKLY while doing things in the present. I am also able to multitask better in real life.

For example. I can cook(And not accidently burn things) while doing laundry, and chatting on TRMK. And I do it very effeciently and fast. My brain is able to cycle through my objectives easily and I don't forget things that I'm also working on at the same time.

IT also helps with my real life job. If you remember a post about me getting 2 people fired because of my speed? That speed is directly related to me playing video games alot. I use a computer to punch in my order. And I can punch an order looking through the empties at work. I punch them so fast infact. That the computer spends about 7 seconds catching up to my actions once i'm done punching it. And not only fast but pretty accurate. I can punch a machine in a minute, everyone else... roughtly 6 minutes. that's 1/6 of the time of everyone else. finger speed isn't the only reason I do it fast. I can count the spirals in the next row while my finges are punching something from 2 rows ago.

What does me doing my job have to do with enhancing society? The more productive I am, the more money the company saves, the more they can do to enhance products/ give raises/ build medical insurance. They just recently paid for "free" all of us to have 1/3 of year salary life insurance. Do you think they'd do that if people were being unproductive? If everyone was my speed, makes you wonder if we could've gotten a full year salary covered insurance.

playing competitively you also need really fast reflexes but this is a mutual point as sports does the same.

Can't argue your health example, as who knows how many people wouldn't excersize w/o sports. And people also have a hard time calling racing sports a sport just like calling video games/chess a sport(lol e-sports). Nice example on the indy cars though. Playing video games casually, don't help you as much as playing them competitively, as casuals put about as much effort into it as they would boiling water. You're not pushing your mind to it's limits.

Flagg said:
That's East Coast america for you Zoid. When they're not taking potshots at EU, they then take shots at everyone else in America.
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Dude this is inevitable. Smashers do the same thing East coast vs west coast. And EU vs America. America in smash has this "We're the best" attitude which may be accurate. But we did a EU vs America and it wasn't like we COMPLETELY dominated. We won by 6 stocks/lives in a 50vs50.

Not to say american bashes them, as when it comes tournament time. Everyone is friendly. But on the boards arguing their skills vs eachother can get a little out of hand. People start using what we call the INui effect. Where you try to say someone is better than someone using past matches and loss/wins like.

It's like saying something like... Saix beat Flagg... and Flagg took a match off Ivital, and Ivital took a set off Mike riazy, and Mike Riazy beat Major Logan. so this means Saix is better than Critical Limit because Major logan beat CL in a ranked match.

They spam threads with these sorts of claims and logic. And it's all 100% pointless.

The region crap is never going to go away. Best you can do is just sit back build your scene. When they do a USAvsEU. Just do your best to shut them up.

without the smack talk.

At the end of the day though, EU USA players will get along man. When they meet at tournament when they do. They will get along, I guarantee most of them will be friendly with eachother. It's just you got a few idiots behind a computer who are arguing a point that can't be proven, but could be if given enough patience. If USA is talking so much smack, they should build a fund for USA/EU players to donate to. That will pay for EU player tickets to come to EVO/American tournament. Ask EU players to nominate say I dunno their top 10. That way we can crunch some numbers if people "REALLY REALLY NEED TO KNOW" atm who's region is better. (Which is still 100% pointless information as MK9 isn't even team based)
 
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Critical-Limit said:
Meh, a few things here and there that people say video games have helped people do good as well.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/n...s-research-that-puzzled-scientists-for-years/

It's also largely said Doctors who play video games are more precise in surgery.

You could also argue Video games help advance other forms of media. Do you think people would try as hard or get to advanced graphics as fast to enhance your movie experience if it wasn't for video games? Or make better/faster computers for personal use? Gamers almost always need top of the line computers to play video games properly, thus putting the need/want to advance computer science.

Also bad mannerism isn't a trait only of video games. I've seen plent of sports athletes be dicks. Like a guy putting his hand out to help up the opposing team and the guy slaps his hand away and gets up by himself ect ect.

The multitasking thing about Starcraft doesn't ONLY help you with starcraft. The fact that I play Starcraft has helped my mind be able to think ahead QUIcKLY while doing things in the present. I am also able to multitask better in real life.

For example. I can cook(And not accidently burn things) while doing laundry, and chatting on TRMK. And I do it very effeciently and fast. My brain is able to cycle through my objectives easily and I don't forget things that I'm also working on at the same time.

IT also helps with my real life job. If you remember a post about me getting 2 people fired because of my speed? That speed is directly related to me playing video games alot. I use a computer to punch in my order. And I can punch an order looking through the empties at work. I punch them so fast infact. That the computer spends about 7 seconds catching up to my actions once i'm done punching it. And not only fast but pretty accurate. I can punch a machine in a minute, everyone else... roughtly 6 minutes. that's 1/6 of the time of everyone else. finger speed isn't the only reason I do it fast. I can count the spirals in the next row while my finges are punching something from 2 rows ago.

What does me doing my job have to do with enhancing society? The more productive I am, the more money the company saves, the more they can do to enhance products/ give raises/ build medical insurance. They just recently paid for "free" all of us to have 1/3 of year salary life insurance. Do you think they'd do that if people were being unproductive? If everyone was my speed, makes you wonder if we could've gotten a full year salary covered insurance.

playing competitively you also need really fast reflexes but this is a mutual point as sports does the same.

Can't argue your health example, as who knows how many people wouldn't excersize w/o sports. And people also have a hard time calling racing sports a sport just like calling video games/chess a sport(lol e-sports). Nice example on the indy cars though. Playing video games casually, don't help you as much as playing them competitively, as casuals put about as much effort into it as they would boiling water. You're not pushing your mind to it's limits.



Dude this is inevitable. Smashers do the same thing East coast vs west coast. And EU vs America. America in smash has this "We're the best" attitude which may be accurate. But we did a EU vs America and it wasn't like we COMPLETELY dominated. We won by 6 stocks/lives in a 50vs50.

Not to say american bashes them, as when it comes tournament time. Everyone is friendly. But on the boards arguing their skills vs eachother can get a little out of hand. People start using what we call the INui effect. Where you try to say someone is better than someone using past matches and loss/wins like.

It's like saying something like... Saix beat Flagg... and Flagg took a match off Ivital, and Ivital took a set off Mike riazy, and Mike Riazy beat Major Logan. so this means Saix is better than Critical Limit because Major logan beat CL in a ranked match.

They spam threads with these sorts of claims and logic. And it's all 100% pointless.

The region crap is never going to go away. Best you can do is just sit back build your scene. When they do a USAvsEU. Just do your best to shut them up.

without the smack talk.

At the end of the day though, EU USA players will get along man. When they meet at tournament when they do. They will get along, I guarantee most of them will be friendly with eachother. It's just you got a few idiots behind a computer who are arguing a point that can't be proven, but could be if given enough patience. If USA is talking so much smack, they should build a fund for USA/EU players to donate to. That will pay for EU player tickets to come to EVO/American tournament. Ask EU players to nominate say I dunno their top 10. That way we can crunch some numbers if people "REALLY REALLY NEED TO KNOW" atm who's region is better. (Which is still 100% pointless information as MK9 isn't even team based)
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Thats great to know. Where do you work by the way?
 
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