now that i'm beginning to main Raiden

Shawi-Kebab said:
Hi, Im new to this forum but when I read that I just HAD to sign up. Superman is almost 100% UNPUNISHABLE on whiff, by the time you've jumped over it there is absolutely NO WAY to punish. Not even a smoke bomb is fast enough unless you've predicted the superman and jumped before your opponent has done the move. Raidens teleport is fine but its a bloody get out of jail free card on wakeup.
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can you read words??? he's talking about Kung laos spin, not raidens superman.... fool.
 
Critical-Limit said:
It bridges the gap between Newbs and pros.

If you don't understand why, then you don't understand depth. No offense but it just sounds like everyone wants things done easier for them cuz they are lazy. Might as well make it so you can save a combo in training mode and load it on your stance button so all you gotta do is hit 1 button for a full combo punish.

That's an extreme example but I used it because apparently its too hard to see it on a small level.

It's essentially stealing depth away at smaller levels if everything is handled that way I'm gonna quit this game. That kind of stuff only makes things more shallow.

The difference is if raidens of 2 equal skill fight minus the fact one of them has problems punishing a far away recovering electric fly. The other one has a quicker reaction time, the guy with the better skill should win out. All they are doing is making the guy who sucks on the same level as the guy who put in work and was able to do it w/o the nerf.
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now your just getting petty C-L
i dont have a problem with raiden,
quan chi and johnny serve me fine,
but i do understand what voncroy is saying, ..consistancy.. there's no room for random events in a conpetitive fighter..
example.. quans damage/health boost...
 
nomad said:
now your just getting petty C-L
i dont have a problem with raiden,
quan chi and johnny serve me fine,
but i do understand what voncroy is saying, ..consistancy.. there's no room for random events in a conpetitive fighter..
example.. quans damage/health boost...
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It's not random. Variables play into why its different distances.

It's not petty, it's the truth make things too easy for everyone and the game becomes less deep. The more hurdles people have to jump to be pro the better.

Trust me i hate random factors,

Luigis random miss fires in ssbm, only reason he's not banned is because he's really low tier. Random tripping on brawl( I hate this game).
 
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im shakin my head at anybody who actually admits they love playing with raiden and then of all ppl Cyrax.It takes very little talent to use these guys.Let me break it down in Nfl lingo..U are bragging about beating ppl when u use the New England Patriots and the Greenbay packers.U suck and u hide behind the best team/characters cause u aren't good.
 
There are good Raiden and Cyrax players. You can't say that people dont enjot playing them because they are classed as ''OP''. SOme people actually want to play the game well and fairly. So they dont abuse Raiden tactics. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the goddam kitchen.
 
Dez Decaydance said:
im shakin my head at anybody who actually admits they love playing with raiden and then of all ppl Cyrax.It takes very little talent to use these guys.Let me break it down in Nfl lingo..U are bragging about beating ppl when u use the New England Patriots and the Greenbay packers.U suck and u hide behind the best team/characters cause u aren't good.
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I hate to do this I'm on my phone, are you a PSN American player? I'd love for you to try your hand at raiden or cyrax vs my low tier jade. If it's so easy you should win no problem right?

You might wonder why I defend high tiers when I don't really play them. I just defend the people who main them. They deserve just as much respect as any mid to low tier main.
 
What "not understanding depth" has to do with asking Raiden's superman recovery being at least the same for every situation on block just like everybody else? LOL Laziness? What??? No, I am merely asking for same consequences to the very same cause. Same recovery for the same special move: consistency. That's hardly being lazy. If it is for you, then we have different notions of what laziness is.

Btw, Critical, don't think I am being picky with you, I am not, we just think differently. I'm no pro, but I will just talk about what bothers me, that's all. I accept Raiden as he is now. If I lose to Raiden, I take it. I actually beat very good Raidens with my Nightwolf, not Raiden "spammers", but Raiden players who actually do great over 40% combos with him. I just find him very annoying to fight against because I cannot decide the pace of the match against a Raiden. I accept any defeat I have against Raiden and I merely do shoulder against a blocked superman, now, all I am asking is the same consistency in that recovery, the same for Smoke, Scorpion and Ermac's teleports, Kung Lao's dive kick or Mileena's roll. I don't think it's lazy to ask for it to be honest.
 
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Voncroy said:
What "not understanding depth" has to do with asking Raiden's superman recovery being at least the same for every situation on block just like everybody else? LOL Laziness? What??? No, I am merely asking for same consequences to the very same cause. Same recovery for the same special move: consistency. That's hardly being lazy. If it is for you, then we have different notions of what laziness is.

Btw, Critical, don't think I am being picky with you, I am not, we just think differently. I'm no pro, but I will just talk about what bothers me, that's all. I accept Raiden as he is now. If I lose to Raiden, I take it. I actually beat very good Raidens with my Nightwolf, not Raiden "spammers", but Raiden players who actually do great over 40% combos with him. I just find him very annoying to fight against because I cannot decide the pace of the match against a Raiden. I accept any defeat I have against Raiden and I merely do shoulder against a blocked superman, now, all I am asking is the same consistency in that recovery, the same for Smoke, Scorpion and Ermac's teleports, Kung Lao's dive kick or Mileena's roll. I don't think it's lazy to ask for it to be honest.
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I'm not trying to talk condescending although I sort of did. I'm sorry,

But I explained why scorpions and smokes are always the same distance, when they tele and you block their tele always comes at you from the same distance from behind no matter where they tele. Raiden... If he does superman on wake up and your on him. He'll be right next to you, when he starts it farther away he starts spinning in the air the second he hits your block so he'll be farther away when he starts it with some more distance.

Block timing and character block (hitboxes) play a similar factor. Kind of like how reptile has problems countering mileenas teleport kick cuz he's shorter than most of the cast. Leaving less time for mileena to be punished before she lands.

It's the same concept for this except horizontally.

Again sorry if I'm being too strong in my views.
 
Raiden really isn't that overpowered. I started maining Raiden until my little brother (who I played against the most at the time) wouldn't play me anymore because he said he was so cheap. Speaking of which:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXvHvILBD2E

Have my laptop on my desk, and since he was raging so much I put a piece of tape over my laptop's webcam's light and had it pointed his way (he didn't know it was recording). This was at the beginning of the summer.

But back on point: Raiden really isn't that cheap. I fight so many characters that are a lot harder/cheaper than him (Kung Lao, Cyrax, to name a couple). I beat people with Raiden, and lose to people while I'm using Raiden. What does Raiden have going for him? His fast teleport, which often leads to a grab, and his fly. His fly is very easily punishable; I know you're saying Voncroy that sometimes he spins further, but a quick dash gets you right into his face while he's still spinning. While his teleport is fast, it can also be punished. Any character with a quick move can nail Raiden right as he reappears (Kano's ball comes to mind, will punish Raiden every time).

Lastly, Raiden has no mixup game at all up close. He has one low attack, and it only comes after two slow high attacks, so very predictable. His entire arsenal is the 3-3-4 overhead and the B3-1-2 combo starters. Playing characters like Jax, Liu Kang, or even Quan Chi can be insanely hard when you never know whether to block high or low. Not to mention that Raiden doesn't have any devastating combos like Cyrax. Most Raiden combos are in the low to mid 30s.

Bottom line is this: nearly every character has their ups, but they also nearly all have their downs. I don't find Raiden overpowered, and have really been using him relatively little.
 
Raiden is difficult until you realise that every Raiden player does the same combos and uses the same strategy over and over again. Once you stop their BnB, they will superman until the cows come home, so just block. I used to find Raiden hard to fight but I've found him relatively easy recently. The real problems arise when someone who knows what they're doing grabs a Raiden.

Also, anyone who says that Cyrax takes no skill to use should go into practice and show us one of these 60% combos. There isn't just one button you can press to make him do the combo and the timing for his combos are harder then most.
 
Dez Decaydance said:
im shakin my head at anybody who actually admits they love playing with raiden and then of all ppl Cyrax.It takes very little talent to use these guys.Let me break it down in Nfl lingo..U are bragging about beating ppl when u use the New England Patriots and the Greenbay packers.U suck and u hide behind the best team/characters cause u aren't good.
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True about Raiden, but not Cyrax. I've seen maybe 2-3 good Cyrax players other than myself that win often.
 
Raiden is easy to fight against once you have experience. His strings are kinda slow. He barely has mix-ups. His superman is extremeley punishable on block, you just need to predict it. And pokes beat his teleport. =)
 
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DaFunk said:
Also, anyone who says that Cyrax takes no skill to use should go into practice and show us one of these 60% combos. There isn't just one button you can press to make him do the combo and the timing for his combos are harder then most.
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My little brother (13) was busting out 60-70% combos after practicing for one night.

Grew-Wolf said:
Raiden is easy to fight against once you have experience. His strings are kinda slow. He barely has mix-ups. His superman is extremeley punishable on block, you just need to predict it. And pokes beat he teleport. =)
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Agreed.

To say that a good player using Raiden is hard to beat doesn't say much. A good player using any character that they're good with will be hard to beat. An average player using Raiden isn't going to be hard, because like Wold said, Raiden is very predictable 95% of the time.
 
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