Let's discuss possible SubZero storylines

[Subz 711]

In mythologies he refers to Bi Han as being the murderer.
In Scorpion's MK4 ending, he refers to Sub Zero as the (not one, the) murderer.
I'm sorry but that's a plot point if I ever saw one, you're trying to rationalize it in order for it to make but there's not much to back it up.

I mean, sure Quan Chi can spin it whatever, but does Scorpion lacks even the most basic part of common sense, wouldn't he question Quan Chi about not showing him Kuai and only does so when it conveniently suits his purpose. Is he that gullible?

It was just a guy in blue ninja armor. How could he even tell who is who?

Hell, Sonya and Jax had them confused in MK9. "Sub-Zero, but you're...dead". It's not like Scorpion actually saw his face or anything, and to Scorpion Quan Chi's word means a lot apparently.

 

[TheDeaconBosco]

Hell, Sonya and Jax had them confused in MK9. "Sub-Zero, but you're...dead".

Jax and Sonya did, but Scorpion realized Kuai wasn't Bi Han almost straight away (difference with the original timeline), something that Kuai confirms right after in case he had doubts.

 

[Subz 711]

Jax and Sonya did, but Scorpion realized Kuai wasn't Bi Han almost straight away (difference with the original timeline), something that Kuai confirms right after in case he had doubts.

Yeah, and that was bad writing as well. Just like Noob noticing it was Kuai in the cyber suit right off the bat???

Anyway, Scorpion may have noticed they were different people, but I'm assuming it's because he, ya know, killed Sub-Zero earlier.

He probably thought wtf? I killed you already. You aren't Sub-Zero.

Plus if you will notice the sub-zero in Quan's cutscene is actually wearing Kuai's gear. Not the gear that Bi-Han had on in MK9. Quan could still spin it to make it out as Kuai Liang.

 

[TheDeaconBosco]

Yeah, and that was bad writing as well. Just like Noob noticing it was Kuai in the cyber suit right off the bat???

Anyway, Scorpion may have noticed they were different people, but I'm assuming it's because he, ya know, killed Sub-Zero earlier.

He probably thought wtf? I killed you already. You aren't Sub-Zero.

Plus if you will notice the sub-zero in Quan's cutscene is actually wearing Kuai's gear. Not the gear that Bi-Han had on in MK9. Quan could still spin it to make it out as Kuai Liang.

You're right that is kinda dumb, I was trying so hard to prove your argument was wrong that I forgot just how silly that was. One of the advantages of a forum is to have other people's perspective and insight to make you realise stuff you didn't on your own.

But I still feel like there's other ways to make Scorpion go after Kuai Liang (if MKX Sub Zero is indeed Kuai) than that. I don't know just have Quan Chi say that the only way his soul would find peace if all the Lin Kuei are dead, something like that seems more reasonable than telling than his family's killer is someone else that the guy he already killed for that very reason.

 

[Subz 711]

You're right that is kinda dumb, I was trying so hard to prove your argument was wrong that I forgot just how silly that was. One of the advantages of a forum is to have other people's perspective and insight to make you realise stuff you didn't on your own.

But I still feel like there's other ways to make Scorpion go after Kuai Liang (if MKX Sub Zero is indeed Kuai) than that. I don't know just have Quan Chi say that the only way his soul would find peace if all the Lin Kuei are dead, something like that seems more reasonable than telling than his family's killer is someone else that the guy he already killed for that very reason.

Oh yeah there are other ways. I just think the similarities in look would confuse someone.

Another thing to note is Scorpion did know it was a different Sub-Zero in the original timeline as well. He saw Kuai spare someone's life. So, he knew they were different. Yet, Scorpion still turned on Kuai over Quan's lies.

 

[TheDeaconBosco]

Another thing to note is Scorpion did know it was a different Sub-Zero in the original timeline as well. He saw Kuai spare someone's life. So, he knew they were different. Yet, Scorpion still turned on Kuai over Quan's lies.

I know he did, he even vowed to protect him, but it still felt very awkward to me how he seemed to blame Kuai singlehandedly for his Family's death in his MK4 ending.

Ah screw it, we gave it more thought than the actual game makers did back then.

 

[Taj Gill]

I know he did, he even vowed to protect him, but it still felt very awkward to me how he seemed to blame Kuai singlehandedly for his Family's death in his MK4 ending.

Ah screw it, we gave it more thought than the actual game makers did back then.

The MK team retconned that (retcons everywhere in Mortal Kombat!). They clarified after that Scorpion vowed to not harm him, rather than protect him.

 

[Nethervestige]

Those MK4 endings for Scorpion and Sub-Zero were among the worst continuity problems in the franchise IMO. [MENTION=4770]Subz 711[/MENTION], I don't think it was ever explained in MK4 that Quan Chi had orchestrated yet another lie that Scorpion fell for re Kuai being the actual killer. They just kind of hoped fans would be grateful that we've been given the classic MK nemeses to play with again after MK3, so we wouldn't notice.

The MK2 endings made it pretty clear that Scorpion had identified Kuai and wasn't interested in pursuing his vendetta against him, yet all of a sudden MK4 has Scorpion conveniently forgetting this for no explained reason. That was just sloppy IMO. Someone clearly underestimated the fastidiousness of the fans

 

[Subz 711]

Those MK4 endings for Scorpion and Sub-Zero were the among the worst continuity problems in the franchise IMO. [MENTION=4770]Subz 711[/MENTION], I don't think it was ever explained in MK4 that Quan Chi had orchestrated yet another lie that Scorpion fell for re Kuai being the actual killer. They just kind of hoped fans would be grateful that we've been given the classic MK nemeses to play with again after MK3, so we wouldn't notice.

The MK2 endings made it pretty clear that Scorpion had identified Kuai and wasn't interested in pursuing his vendetta against him, yet all of a sudden MK4 has Scorpion conveniently forgetting this for no explained reason. That was just sloppy IMO. Someone clearly underestimated the fastidiousness of the fans

It was bad that he went after Kuai like that after saying he would protect him. However, I also play that to Quan Chi being such a great liar. It also shows just how loyal to Quan Scorpion is.

It did happen though. Scorpion would have never found out Quan Chi was the true culprit had Sub-Zero not told him the truth. Quan Chi knew Scorpion's use to him had worn off so he just told him that Sub-Zero was not lying and that he was actually responsible for the death of Scorps clan.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

The next time Scorpion and Sub-Zero bury the hatchet, it better be permanent. The previous 2 times didn't stick.

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[NoobSaibotMythologies]

I think story wise there shouldn't be a human sub-zero. UNLESS it's a new sub-zero. I personally think the human sub-zero in the trailers is just a bonus character for verses mode to satisfy fans. I also think it'll be kuai liang as the main and bi han as an alternate costume. But if they actually do make it a new sub-zero, bi han and kuai liang will both be alternate costumes for verse mode, arcade mode etc.... But that's just how I feel.

 

[Taj Gill]

What's also really poor writing on NRS's part was in Scorpion's MK4 Ending, why would Quan Chi reveal himself to be the culprit BEFORE Scorpion would supposedly finish off Kuai?

 

[Sn202]

What's also really poor writing on NRS's part was in Scorpion's MK4 Ending, why would Quan Chi reveal himself to be the culprit BEFORE Scorpion would supposedly finish off Kuai?

I'd just chalk it up to pre-Metal Gear Solid half-assed storytelling.

 

[TheDeaconBosco]

What's also really poor writing on NRS's part was in Scorpion's MK4 Ending, why would Quan Chi reveal himself to be the culprit BEFORE Scorpion would supposedly finish off Kuai?

Meh, it's typical villain overconfidence. He probably felt that Scorpion wouldn't finish the job with doubt on his mind and that Kuai was weak enough to be at his mercy anyway.

 

[Commander]

You made your point, you can't be proven wrong, but the same applies to those that think otherwise. It's an inpass.

Tell you what, Boon made a cryptic reference to what seems to be Sareena, if she turns out to be in MKX and if she gets to interact with Bi Han, Kuai Liang or whoever this Sub Zero might be, then maybe we'll have confirmation about whether Mythologies is canon or not.

Exactly.
Neither can be proven wrong, and since this is a discussion thread, these are all just THEORIES.
That's the point that other people missed when they called me "stubborn" and treated me like an asshole.
I guess there will always be someone who shits on your cereal or pisses on your parade (not you, TheDeaconBosco), though.

I'd be fine with that too.
For now, it's up in the air though, and hopefully MK X will confirm or de-confirm more of this.

Nothing actually proves that Bi-Han killed Scorpion and repelled Quan Chi and Shinnok's army in the exact same way described in Mythologies, and that's pretty much Araknyd's point.

Yes, that was my point.
Thank you.
Someone f***ing gets it.

How could you assume that though? Stuff has obviously changed. Quan chi wasn't at the first tournament originally. Obviously somethings changed.

Also a valid point.
Things have been retconned in the past in Mythologies and MK4 with Quan Chi now suddenly being in MK1, when he sure as hell wasn't there before during the original events of MK1.
Everyone acts as if Mythologies or MK4 being retconned in MK X isn't a possibility.

Why does it seem like everyone wants everything that happened to Kuai to happen to Bi-Han. It's such bullshit.

Bi-Han as Sub-Zero has got to be one of the most overrated characters ever.

Still hoping for a new Sub-Zero over him.

I don't want what happened to Kuai-Liang to happen to Bi-Han, but I sure as hell would love to see Bi-Han as Sub-Zero in a game, which doesn't involve him dying in the first few freakin' minutes of it.

Kuai has been in 8 MK games as Sub-Zero, yet Bi-Han is over-rated?
How so?

I'd be fine with that too.

This is my take on everything:

In terms of the whole MK:MSZ being canon in the new timeline, I believe it is, due to the fact that Boon and Co. didn't elaborate on whether MK9 was a whole complete alternate reality or just a different timeline. I'm inclined to believe that it's JUST a separate timeline, but people like [MENTION=5028]Araknyd_Commander[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4805]Viking_Poodle[/MENTION] are correctly allowed to assume that it's also an alternate reality. This is simply because the method of Time Travel wasn't elaborated on by NRS which is very poorly done on their part, and I don't think they ever will care to clarify this.

Secondly, the fact that we see a Human Sub-Zero is good enough for me. As I've stated many times in this thread, I would PREFER that it's Kuai rather than Bi-Han because I want Scorpion and him to team up and hunt down Quan Chi. As well as making it even cooler if Han as Noob also teams up with them, with the intent of winning the Netherrealm for himself. If Bi-Han is Sub-Zero, cool, now we can see how NRS fleshes him out in the role. I just don't want a new Sub-Zero unless he's directly related to the Brothers. If it's a completely different person, Boon would be contradicting the story because the Brothers were the only two abducted by the Lin Kuei as opposed to other members for their cryomancy. It would be completely out of the blue to have a whole bunch of Cryomancers when they abducted the two, as opposed to letting them join the clan as usual, just because of their rare feats.

As a Back To The Future fanatic, it's easy to see how the whole "alternate reality" is a possibility.
Everyone's jumping me on it as if it's the only possibility, but I never implied that.
This is a thread on the theory of Sub-Zero in MK X, and NRS was very vague in MK9 as to whether MK9 was an alternate reality or not.

Alright, I get ya. You come off as a bit intense, but I guess you're just passionate about it. Don't see how the soulnado theory is that farfetched though, considering they are technically a portal to the heavens

It's not far-fetched, IMO.

The next time Scorpion and Sub-Zero bury the hatchet, it better be permanent. The previous 2 times didn't stick.

^^
THIS!!!!

I really hope that this bullshit can end in MK X, and we can finally be done with the whole stupid shit "revenge" Sub-Zero / Scorpion storyline.
Whether it's Bi-Han, Kuai-Liang or a NEW Sub-Zero in MK X (I REALLY don't give a shit), I just want to see Sub-Zero and Scorpion evolve from the lame story that we've been fed since 1992.
It was fine for the first 3 games, maybe even MK4 with Quan Chi, but after that the damn story became lame and dragged ass.

 

[white_ninja]

I don't really care if this Sub-Zero is Bi Han or Kuai Liang. What really matters is the fact that we get a Human Sub-Zero which is awesome btw. It would be nice if they did it like in MK9 by choosing a costume. Sub-Zero's identity is actually only important for the story mode. There is no difference while playing this character. As a kid I also did not notice that Tekken 3 King is not the King from the first two tournaments. Same for MK2. I thought the younger brother appeared in MK3 for the first time. I had the SEGA MK2 port and could not read the bios.

What I wanted to say is that it's not REALLY important who this Sub-Zero is. I hated the fact that they turned Sub-Zero into a refrigerator. I wanted to see proper MK3 part with unmasked Sub-Zero who has left the Lin Kuei.

If I could choose I would like to see Bi Han. More important than Sub-Zeros identity is the gameplay. I love how Sub-Zero looks faster and more aggressive than in MK9.

 

[Subz 711]

@Araknyd

Bi-Han is overrated to me the same way that human smoke is overrated to me. They have some slight popularity, but I don't see where it's warranted.

Though with Bi-Han at least those fans have mythologies. Smoke was first playable as a cyborg though.

Anyway, yeah any of the popularity they had never made any sense to me. That's my opinion though.

With Kuai you pointed out that he's been in 8 games (also the main in Shaolin Monks). His popularity would be warranted, as much as I hate to say it Scorpion's is too.

 

[Cryo]

Smoke is an amazing character with lots of potential and a very original al source of power: smoke. He is my third favourite character I hope he returns. He us way better than his cyborg homonym.

 

[Commander]

@Araknyd

Bi-Han is overrated to me the same way that human smoke is overrated to me. They have some slight popularity, but I don't see where it's warranted.

Though with Bi-Han at least those fans have mythologies. Smoke was first playable as a cyborg though.

Anyway, yeah any of the popularity they had never made any sense to me. That's my opinion though.

With Kuai you pointed out that he's been in 8 games (also the main in Shaolin Monks). His popularity would be warranted, as much as I hate to say it Scorpion's is too.

Kuai, (much like Scorpion) is overrated to me because he's been in every single game after MK1 as Sub-Zero.
I, for one, like an underdog story and Bi-Han Sub-Zero is that underdog.

 

[Cryo]

Kuai, (much like Scorpion) is overrated to me because he's been in every single game after MK1 as Sub-Zero.
I, for one, like an underdog story and Bi-Han Sub-Zero is that underdog.

I don't think you fully understand the concept of "overrated", it doesn't mean a character appears too much it means a character sucks but in general people loves him. Which can't be applied to Sub because he is all kinds of awesome. Yes I understand that Kuai was in almost every game but what difference does it make who is sub zero? When you play you don't really choose Kuai or Bi you just choose Sub Zero regardless on who is under the mask, so if you think Kuai is overrated then you also think Bi Han is too, because at the end of the day both of them are Sub Zero.