Let's discuss possible SubZero storylines

[Flying Jinko]

There's subplots though

He was never really meant to be a part of the main story. See, that's where I don't get people's arguments on this level. Sonya had the OIA side story which was boring as shit. Johnny never had a sidestory at all besides his Hollywood schtick and his character suffered for it.He was just goofball comic relief until his MK9 ending which shows he MIGHT finally get some development, might.

What you fail to realise/ignore is that for the subplots to have relevance, it should be atleast indirectly related to the main plot or else it will fall flat like it did with Kuai Liang. Sonya's OIA was set up to help protect earthrealm, and there was a lot of story revolving around with a couple of characters and had relevance in the main story and thus I feel was a worthwhile addition since it was connected to the main plot. What did Sub-Zero do in his capacity as grandmaster of the Lin Kuei to protect earthrealm? Even if you wish to isolate his story arc from the main plot, what did he really do than discover his ancestry? He was nothing more than a namesake leader basically, atleast that's how NRS made him. To sum up his story, he went on a tour to outworld, losing his apprentice on the way and later found a wounded Kenshi, nursed him back to health and returned home while MKDA and MKD happened. Story writing at its poorest.

Also Bi-Han doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself at the end of the day. So, good luck with getting him to contribute much either.

How can you claim to say that when we have never seen Bi Han long enough as a human to see what his character would have been developed into? You make it seem like he is a one dimensional character even with evidence against it, with him sparing Sareena in MKMSZ. Also if you observe the MK9 storymode, Kuai Liang wasn't very much different from Bi Han when he started out, he was selfish too in not helping Sonya and Jax (who had his hands ripped off) even after Sonya disclosed to him where Scorpion could be. He was also preparing to kill off Scorpion which he couldn't complete, since the Lin Kuei cyborgs intervened. Again, your argument falls flat.

At the time of the final battle against the Deadly Alliance, Sub-Zero is most likely distracted by either the betrayal of Frost and its aftermath, or saving Kenshi's life. And even if he did fight alongside his Earthrealm allies, there's no guarantee it would've turned the tide against the two sorcerers. Actually, it wouldn't have mattered, because these two were empowered by an Amulet, a seemingly endless supply of souls, and a resurrected ancient army that was historically impossible to defeat. The odds were stacked too far against them for even a few more allies to make any difference.

There would have been a very good chance that the forces of light could have won, had Sub-Zero been there to help them. He was arguably the strongest earthrealm warrior during that time, rivaling even Liu Kang, had he been alive. Raiden himself was on the verge of defeating them. As for Shinnok's amulet, I don't think it really aided them, but if we are talking amulets, Sub-Zero too has his Lin Kuei amulet which increased his powers manifold, it could have helped in defeating them too.

 

[Subz 711]

First off, Ed Boon literally said Noob is the fighter and Saibot is the shadow clone.

Second, because being controlled by a necromancer would make you suddenly very loyal to your former clan and, well i would say the whole "maintaining our innocence" thing, but you'll just bullshit it into the MK4 storyline again despite the fact that it cant, and most importantly, WONT happen.

Let me repeat myself.

THE MK4 KUAI LIANG STORYLINE CANNOT HAPPEN AS IT DID BEFORE FOR TWO REASONS.

1. IT HAPPENED TO BI-HAN IN THE LAST GAME.

2. PROFESSIONAL WRITERS WORK AT NETHERREALM.


And yes, i do read what you say.

Im willing to listen if you actually give some solid evidence other than "NUH UH, ITS KUAI, MK4 STOOPID", but, y'know.

You're not.

We get it, jesus christ, you like Kuai Liang as Sub-Zero, alright, most people do, calm the hell down, jesus christ.

I can't keep up with like 4 of you. So, I'm just going to respond to you since we were arguing last night.

First, you just proved my point exactly. Noob is the fighter aka Bi-Han, Saibot is the Shadow Clone. So, it's his shadow. He controls shadows so it only makes sense that he can control his own.When will you people realize that there's Noob and there's Saibot does not mean there's Bi-Han and there's Noob Saibot??? You can't do it like that.

Okay, we are going to have to stop here and you're going to have to tell me when did Kuai's MK4 storyline happen in Mk9? You pointed me to Scorpion's story chapter last time, but that just shows that Quan Chi told Scorpion that Bi-Han killed his family. THAT ALWAYS HAPPENED EVEN IN THE OLD TIMELINE.

Also, you want more evidence for Kuai? Look no further than the grandmaster variation. They could give that to Bi-Han, but why would he have motivation to go back to the Lin Kuei? They're all cyborgs now, and he blindly followed the Lin Kuei. He should not have reason to go back. In fact, his main concern should be...Scorpion. Whereas with Kuai Liang, Sektor turned him into a refrigerator in his past life. So, it only males sense that he would want to beat his ass and take it back over.

Also, if you're saying it's bad writing to have Kuai's MK4 story happen again (even though I still don't think you grasp that storyline), then what is plastering two other characters story's onto one character just so he can be Bi-Han again.

You see I've argued that Bi-Han was a selfish ass in life. He already had a second chance when Raiden told him he needed to change. That was his second chance. If he's selfish and self centered it is totally in line with his character to want to take over the netherealm because it benefits him. That's what Bi-Han is about. Doing shit that benefits himself. Not others. That's why he makes such a good character as Noob Saibot.

 

[Commander]

Also, you want more evidence for Kuai? Look no further than the grandmaster variation. They could give that to Bi-Han, but why would he have motivation to go back to the Lin Kuei? They're all cyborgs now, and he blindly followed the Lin Kuei. He should not have reason to go back. In fact, his main concern should be...Scorpion.

That point can also be counter-debated (as it has in the past, and we're beating a dead horse here) with "Unbreakable" and "Cryomancer" possibly also leaning towards Bi-Han, and with "Shirai Ryu dog" being something that Bi-Han specifically would say.

Another point, why does Bi-Han have to go back to the Lin Kuei if he's Sub-Zero in MK X?
Him re-joining the Lin Kuei isn't the only option, and I'm tired of you acting is if that's the only possibility if he's Sub-Zero.
Maybe he actually wants to KILL the Lin Kuei and go after all the cyborgs (since leaving the Lin Kuei is seen as treachery and given his asshole attitude), rather than joining them in MK X.
Him destroying his old clan perfectly fits into his ruthless / "don't give a crap" characteristic too.

 

[Katalina Caine]

[MENTION=7297]Sn202[/MENTION]

Umm, you don't actually READ what I say do you?

One VERY good reason that this could be Kuai is that he's in Quan's possession and his name is still Sub-Zero. Plain and simple.lol. Just because he's cyber didn't magically make him not Sub-Zero. So, we are going to have people referring to Kuai as Sub-Zero and Bi-Han as Sub-Zero in storymode right? You think the dead characters WON'T be addressed?

Quan Chi made a new body for both Scorpion and Noob Saibot. Are you just ignoring that he does this?

Also he could be acting slightly more asshole-ish because...well did you read what the netherealm does to people up there or did you ignore that too? It taints them. It makes them act evil.

I need to see what you are seeing that is so far in Bi-Han's direction that you consider it revealed already though apparently.lol. The ONLY line I've seen that points to him is "Shirai Ryu Dog". That's just an intro though and outside of story mode it makes sense to give them these generic Lin kuei vs. Shirai Ryu lines.

Oh and Saibot still doesn't exist in these games.lol. That's just you taking a tweet and making more of it than what it is. It's still Noob Saibot. Have any of you considered that Noob and Saibot are just Bi-Han and his shadow? It would make sense because you know...that's his power.

Quan Chi made a new body for Hanzo hasashi and he became Scorpion.
Quan Chi made a new body for Bi-Han and he became Noob Saibot.
Are you saying he made a new body for Kuai and thus didn't change ?

 

[Cryo]

Quan Chi made a new body for Hanzo hasashi and he became Scorpion.
Quan Chi made a new body for Bi-Han and he became Noob Saibot.
Are you saying he made a new body for Kuai and thus didn't change ?

He made a new body for Sindel and it didn't change at all.

 

[Taj Gill]

How about we just shut up once and for all about this subject, chalk it up to NRS for making this subject so unnecessarily retarded and wait patiently to see who this is and what explanation we get. IMO these arguments aren't worth having, considering NO ONE is right.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

There would have been a very good chance that the forces of light could have won, had Sub-Zero been there to help them. He was arguably the strongest earthrealm warrior during that time, rivaling even Liu Kang, had he been alive. Raiden himself was on the verge of defeating them. As for Shinnok's amulet, I don't think it really aided them, but if we are talking amulets, Sub-Zero too has his Lin Kuei amulet which increased his powers manifold, it could have helped in defeating them too.

Canonically speaking, Raiden is the strongest of the MK heroes (especially given the fact that he was a former Elder God at this particular time), and not even HE could beat the Deadly Alliance. If Raiden couldn't beat them, then how could Sub-Zero have made a difference?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

 

[Flying Jinko]

Canonically speaking, Raiden is the strongest of the MK heroes (especially given the fact that he was a former Elder God at this particular time), and not even HE could beat the Deadly Alliance. If Raiden couldn't beat them, then how could Sub-Zero have made a difference?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

I never said Sub-Zero alone could beat them, just that he would have tipped the fight in their favor if he aided them as he was quite powerful himself. Raiden + Sub-Zero would have been able to take out the deadly alliance.

 

[Katalina Caine]

Even if the forces of light have defeated the Deadly Alliance, they wouldn't be destroy Onaga like the Deadly Alliance and Raiden.

 

[Sn202]

He made a new body for Sindel and it didn't change at all.

Sindel was a part of a plan to merge realms, though.

At the very least, she became more evil.

 

[BBBLP]

How about we just shut up once and for all about this subject, chalk it up to NRS for making this subject so unnecessarily retarded and wait patiently to see who this is and what explanation we get. IMO these arguments aren't worth having, considering NO ONE is right.

Then go away?
I love these arguments.

Battles of lore and knowledge of the mythos. It's fun.

 

[Sn202]

Then go away?
I love these arguments.

Battles of lore and knowledge of the mythos. It's fun.

A little bit, yeah :V

Besides, i dont really think its a bad thing that NRS left us arguing and questioning over stuff in MK X, its actually a good thing, it shows interest.

-edit-

Watching gameplay again, i think they're encorporating Noob Saibot into Scorpion, he has his own "shadow clone", the demon that he can summon. But im gonna wait before i say that adds to the possibility of it being Bi-Han.

 

[Subz 711]

That point can also be counter-debated (as it has in the past, and we're beating a dead horse here) with "Unbreakable" and "Cryomancer" possibly also leaning towards Bi-Han, and with "Shirai Ryu dog" being something that Bi-Han specifically would say.

Another point, why does Bi-Han have to go back to the Lin Kuei if he's Sub-Zero in MK X?
Him re-joining the Lin Kuei isn't the only option, and I'm tired of you acting is if that's the only possibility if he's Sub-Zero.
Maybe he actually wants to KILL the Lin Kuei and go after all the cyborgs (since leaving the Lin Kuei is seen as treachery and given his asshole attitude), rather than joining them in MK X.
Him destroying his old clan perfectly fits into his ruthless / "don't give a crap" characteristic too.

Araknyd I have seen your arguments, and I am hearing them. I don't understand how you can honestly say that Cryomancer "leans" towards Bi-Han. I've already brought up the fact that Kuai found the CRYOMANCER armor in the Deception. He also has an entire ending in deception which states the armor speaks to him and guides his blows. While he's not wearing the armor, could it not be concluded that maybe he finds the cryomancer armor and it bonds with him or some shit? I'm not saying it leans in Kuai's direction, but at the same time you can't say that it leans towards Bi-Han. Your argument is he was the first cryomancer, but he wasn't. There was his family that came before him. Kuai found the armor and the heritage though.

Also, I'm not saying he has to join the Lin Kuei again. However, one style is grandmaster. That means whoever it is must be leading the Lin Kuei. Another point is that in every variation the Lin Kuei keeps these symbols. Which means whoever it is must be involved with the Lin Kuei. Not disbanding them or murdering them.

 

[Commander]

Araknyd I have seen your arguments, and I am hearing them. I don't understand how you can honestly say that Cryomancer "leans" towards Bi-Han. I've already brought up the fact that Kuai found the CRYOMANCER armor in the last game. He also has an entire ending in deception which states the armor speaks to him and guides his blows. While he's not wearing the armor, could it not be concluded that maybe he finds the cryomancer armor and it bonds with him or some shit? I'm not saying it leans in Kuai's direction, but at the same time you can't say that it leans towards Bi-Han. Your argument is he was the first cryomancer, but he wasn't. There was his family that came before him. Kuai found the armor and the heritage though.

Also, I'm not saying he has to join the Lin Kuei again. However, one style is grandmaster. That means whoever it is must be leading the Lin Kuei. Another point is that in every variation the Lin Kuei keeps these symbols. Which means whoever it is must be involved with the Lin Kuei. Not disbanding them or murdering them.

I'm just saying that "Cryomancer" could be either one, Bi-Han or Kuai, since they both ARE from the Cryomancer race.
You just seem adamant and persistent in saying that Cryomancer can't be Bi-Han, when it also can.

Agreed that one variation is "Grandmaster" and that the 1 variation points specifically to Kuai.
That being said, much like in MK9, how do you know that the human Sub-Zero in MK X doesn't consist of BOTH brothers (via variations in MK X, similar to to the alt costumes in MK9) or that this is a brand NEW Sub-Zero, altogether, who learned something from BOTH Bi-Han and Kuai-Liang, much like Cassie learned from Johnny and Sonya?

 

[Sn202]

I'm just saying that "Cryomancer" could be either one, Bi-Han or Kuai, since they both ARE from the Cryomancer race.
You just seem adamant and persistent in saying that Cryomancer can't be Bi-Han, when it also can.

Agreed that one variation is "Grandmaster" and that the 1 variation points specifically to Kuai.
That being said, much like in MK9, how do you know that the human Sub-Zero in MK X doesn't consist of BOTH brothers (via variations in MK X, similar to to the alt costumes in MK9) or that this is a brand NEW Sub-Zero, altogether, who learned something from BOTH Bi-Han and Kuai-Liang, much like Cassie learned from Johnny and Sonya?

Hmm, unless Sub-Zero does some bullshit to somebody Scorpion likes in this game, i dont know why he'd be called a murderer if he's an entirely new Sub-Zero.

 

[Commander]

Hmm, unless Sub-Zero does some bullshit to somebody Scorpion likes in this game, i dont know why he'd be called a murderer if he's an entirely new Sub-Zero.

If it IS a new character in MK X, it could be a simple enough explanation as Scorpion having blind rage to the Sub-Zero costume, and anyone wearing the costume he automatically assumes is Bi-Han.

 

[Sn202]

If it IS a new character in MK X, it could be a simple enough explanation as Scorpion having blind rage to the Sub-Zero costume, and anyone wearing the costume sends him into a rage.

He didnt really react like that to Kuai Liang, he only got pissed off when he said he was fighting for his brothers honor.

 

[Commander]

He didnt really react like that to Kuai Liang, he only got pissed off when he said he was fighting for his brothers honor.

Kuai Liang's MK9 costume was vastly different from MK9 Bi-Han, which is why Scorpion said "You are not Sub-Zero."
That being said, if someone (a relative or student of Bi-Han) wears an exact replica of Bi-Han's costume, Scorpion may think accidentally that it's Bi-Han.

 

[Sn202]

Kuai Liang's MK9 costume was vastly different from MK9 Bi-Han, which is why Scorpion said "You are not Sub-Zero."
That being said, if someone (a relative or student of Bi-Han) wears an exact replica of Bi-Han's costume, Scorpion may think accidentally that it's Bi-Han.

MK X Sub-Zero's outfit is completely different from both of them though, so that doesnt make sense either.

 

[Commander]

MK X Sub-Zero's outfit is completely different from both of them though, so that doesnt make sense either.

Not quite so.
When MK8 was originally being done (the original Mk reboot game that was supposed to happen instead of MKvsDC), the concept art of that MK1 Sub-Zero looked VERY much like MK X Sub-Zero.