Let's discuss possible SubZero storylines

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Araknyd_Commander said:
Not really.
Scorpion and Sub-Zero can just do it themselves.
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I guess it would depend on the strength of Shinnok and Quan Chi's eventual allies or the power they gain through the story. If they're the main villains it seems unlikely that anything but an entirely new team of Earthrealm defenders might be able to stop them.

I do see them being the ones that finally end Quan Chi though, maybe through a tag team fatality. But Shinnok's an other matter altogether.

And I'm pretty sure that this Sub-Zero, whoever he is, is no ghost neither.


@0:30 He has pupils, but they're cloudy like a blind person's. I guess that's an effect of cryomancy but that's rather lame in my book, I really was a fan of Sub's frozen arms from Deadly Alliance and onward and I really would like to see them back.
 
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Araknyd_Commander said:
Because those events never happened in MK9, and MK X has nothing to do with the original timeline.

If you're going with that original bullshit timeline theory, though, why wouldn't the elder gods bring back the 1 character that originally defeated Shinnok in MKM:SZ, Bi-Han?
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Yes it does.
Raiden did not receive any of his future altering views until Earthrealm's 10th MK tournament. Which means that everything that happened prior to that, was unaffected. And since MK9 technically happens after Armageddon, MKX has everything to do with the original timeline.
 
BBBLP said:
Yes it does.
Raiden did not receive any of his future altering views until Earthrealm's 10th MK tournament. Which means that everything that happened prior to that, was unaffected. And since MK9 technically happens after Armageddon, MKX has everything to do with the original timeline.
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That's what I was trying to say. Minus the little retcons they did here and there for MK9 (cough, Sub-Zero, cough).
 
BBBLP said:
Yes it does.
Raiden did not receive any of his future altering views until Earthrealm's 10th MK tournament. Which means that everything that happened prior to that, was unaffected. And since MK9 technically happens after Armageddon, MKX has everything to do with the original timeline.
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No.
MK9 skewed the original timeline, and everything that happens AFTER the Armageddon point, when Raiden sent those messages to his former self = NEW timeline.
From the moment that Raiden sent the images to his former self, all that = NEW timeline.
It took place during the MK1 era, but MK9 is an alternate reality.
MK X has nothing to do with the original timeline.
 
Araknyd_Commander said:
No.
MK9 skewed the original timeline, and everything that happens AFTER the Armageddon point, when Raiden sent those messages to his former self = NEW timeline.
From the moment that Raiden sent the images to his former self, all that = NEW timeline.
It took place during the MK1 era, but MK9 is an alternate reality.
MK X has nothing to do with the original timeline.
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But MKM:SZ takes place before the tournament happens. In fact Sub-Zero and the rest of the Lin Kuei are invited to Sheng Tsung's tournament the end of Mythology and thus before Raiden experiences his first vision.
I mean what do you think Raiden was referencing with that quote about Bi Han stopping Shinnok and Quan Chi other than the events of Mythology.
 
TheDeaconBosco said:
But MKM:SZ takes place before the tournament happens. In fact Sub-Zero and the rest of the Lin Kuei are invited to Sheng Tsung's tournament the end of Mythology and thus before Raiden experiences his first vision.
I mean what do you think Raiden was referencing with that quote about Bi Han stopping Shinnok and Quan Chi other than the events of Mythology.
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But weren't they being paid off to assassinate Shang Tsung?

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TheDeaconBosco said:
But MKM:SZ takes place before the tournament happens. In fact Sub-Zero and the rest of the Lin Kuei are invited to Sheng Tsung's tournament the end of Mythology. So before Raiden experiences his first vision, I mean what do you think Raiden was referencing with that quote about Bi Han stopping Shinnok and Quan Chi besides the events of Mythology.
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In the OLD timeline.

MK9 essentially = the Back To The Future II alternate timeline where Biff is in charge, but Hill Valley is the same place.
It's still the same era that we're used to and love, but the reality and events occurring are different.

Tarkatan Trash said:
But weren't they being paid off to assassinate Shang Tsung?
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Another valid point making my case.
In the original timeline, the Lin Kuei were there to kill Shang Tsung.
In this NEW timeline (MK9), they are invited by Shang Tsung.
 
Tarkatan Trash said:
But weren't they being paid off to assassinate Shang Tsung?

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Another retcon. Retcons everywhere.
[MENTION=5028]Araknyd_Commander[/MENTION] I see what you mean with alternate reality, but in alternate realities, isn't the flow of time the same, but different appearances? Until the timeline gets altered?
 
It's still a continuation.
In MK9, Raiden receives visions and messages from his MKA self. Meaning the old timeline is still relevant. Otherwise he wouldn't receive visions of it. He still wasn't able to change everything from the old timeline. Like Bi Han becoming the extreme danger that is Noob Saibot.
 
I think there's a difference between "Alternate realities" and "multiple timelines".

Which is what everyone is getting confused about.
[MENTION=4889]BBBLP[/MENTION] Nah it's a retcon, I remember Raiden discussing with Cyrax that the Lin Kuei makes ruinous choices for their own benefit, meaning siding with Outworld.
 
Araknyd_Commander said:
In the OLD timeline.

MK9 essentially = the Back To The Future II alternate timeline where Biff is in charge, but Hill Valley is the same place.
It's still the same era that we're used to and love, but the reality and events occurring are different.



Another valid point making my case.
In the original timeline, the Lin Kuei were there to kill Shang Tsung.
In this NEW timeline (MK9), they are invited by Shang Tsung.
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I thought the timeline change occurred immediately before the first fight. If the Lin Kuei was being paid for Shang Tsung's head in the original, then they were being paid for his head in the new...especially since this was set up pre-tournament.

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Tarkatan Trash said:
I thought the timeline change occurred immediately before the first fight. If the Lin Kuei was being paid for Shang Tsung's head in the original, then they were being paid for his head in the new...especially since this was set up pre-tournament.

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This is what I mean, NRS NEEDS to clarify whether MK9 is either an "Alternate Reality" as some imply it to be, or a "different timeline". Alternate Realities are where the events may already be different before gaining knowledge of the future, whereas a different timeline is where the events are the same until someone gains knowledge of the future.

That's what I take from it at least. If MK9 was INDEED an "Alternate Reality" then okay fine, there are no Retcons, such as Kuai's motivation for revenge, Lin Kuei on Shang Tsung's side, Kung Lao participating in the first tournament, etc. But if MK9 was a different timeline ONLY, then those events I just mentioned, prior to Raiden getting his visions, ARE retcons.

I think the majority of people implied that MK9 was just a different timeline, but now the question of "Alternate Realities" kind of makes things different.
 
Even if Shang Tsung was paying the Lin Kuei for their services, someone else was still paying the same clan for his head. That's canon, and that is final.

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Taj Gill said:
I think there's a difference between "Alternate realities" and "multiple timelines".

Which is what everyone is getting confused about.
@<u><a href="http://www.trmk.org/forums/member.php?u=4889" target="_blank">BBBLP</a></u> Nah it's a retcon, I remember Raiden discussing with Cyrax that the Lin Kuei makes ruinous choices for their own benefit, meaning siding with Outworld.
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I should clarify, then.
From the point that Raiden sent the messages to himself, it's a new time paradox.
You're right in it being a multiple timelines, but my point is that MK9 =/= original timeline.

Doc Brown can explain it better:

(0:55 mark)



Tarkatan Trash said:
I thought the timeline change occurred immediately before the first fight. If the Lin Kuei was being paid for Shang Tsung's head in the original, then they were being paid for his head in the new...especially since this was set up pre-tournament.

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No.
It occured when Raiden sent the past images to his former self.
Original MK timeline Raiden died after Shao Kahn bashed his head in, in Armageddon.
The Lin Kuei were being invited by Shang Tsung in MK9 to eliminate Earthrealm warriors, as Raiden stated when he spoke to Cyrax.
They even swore their allegiance to Shao Kahn, when they captured Kuai Liang.
 
Araknyd_Commander said:
Another valid point making my case.
In the original timeline, the Lin Kuei were there to kill Shang Tsung.
In this NEW timeline (MK9), they are invited by Shang Tsung.
Click to expand...

The retcon of the Lin Kuei's goal started in Mythologies it seems. In the ending of that game Shang Tsung is in the Lin Kuei fortress asking for Sub Zero's services in the tournament, so what happened there (I guess that was the point where the writing team changed).

Also let's say for the sake of argument that MK:A Raiden sent visions to a Raiden of an alternate universe as well as time where the events of Mythologies didn't happen. If that were case, then Bi-Han wouldn't have had the occasion to kill Scorpion, let alone defeat Shinnok and Quan Chi.

Araknyd_Commander said:
Doc Brown can explain it better:

(0:55 mark)

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But there needs to be an event to cause the change in the timeline, and as far as we know, that event in the MK9 timeline that causes it to become different to the original timeline is Raiden beginning to have visions. We can all advance theories but there's no way to prove that the timeline is altered before the point Raiden gets his very first vision, at least until word of God says otherwise.
 
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Araknyd_Commander said:
I should clarify, then.
From the point that Raiden sent the messages to himself, it's a new time paradox.
You're right in it being a multiple timelines, but my point is that MK9 =/= original timeline.

Doc Brown can explain it better:

(0:55 mark)





No.
It occured when Raiden sent the past images to his former self.
Original MK timeline Raiden died after Shao Kahn bashed his head in, in Armageddon.
The Lin Kuei were being invited by Shang Tsung in MK9 to eliminate Earthrealm warriors, as Raiden stated when he spoke to Cyrax.
They even swore their allegiance to Shao Kahn, when they captured Kuai Liang.
Click to expand...
And when did that former self receive that first message again? Right before the tournament's first fight.

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TheDeaconBosco said:
Also let's say for the sake of argument that MK:A Raiden sent visions to a Raiden of an alternate universe as well as time where the events of Mythologies didn't happen. If that were case, then Bi-Han wouldn't have had the occasion to kill Scorpion, let alone defeat Shinnok and Quan Chi.
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Not so.
Bi-Han may have killed Scorpion still, but how it occured is what may have changed.

Same goes for Shinnok and Quan Chi.
Sub-Zero may have defended Earthrealm against their armies, as Raiden stated, but it was never said HOW or what those exact events were.
This could very well be an alternate reality / existence.
 
Maybe the Lin Kuei accepted payment for Shang Tsung's assassination under the table. Ever considered THAT theory?

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