Imperatrix Sindel
New member
Yep. Ermac and Kenshi also have basically the same deal, but they're different enough in feel that nobody seems to mind. I think they could do that with Frost and Sub-Zero.
Frost for MKX
- Thread starter Misucra
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Yep. Ermac and Kenshi also have basically the same deal, but they're different enough in feel that nobody seems to mind. I think they could do that with Frost and Sub-Zero.
Kitty_55
Active member
The last 18 pages clearly has various users, including me, showing how two ice wielders can play differently, and yet, as far as I've seen, it's gotten completely ignored with others saying, "Nope, she's a clone, she can't come back."
I honestly don't understand the amount of hate this character gets because she has ice powers when we clearly have at least four militarized characters in this game who all play extremely different from one another. Also, I've stopped reading the amount of hate they all have received during pre-production, the only thing I see are minor complaints.
So I ask, what is so different from Frost to where she cannot come back, but everyone is perfectly content with four militarized characters, three fire wielders, two swordsman, two telekinetics, and a wizard who blatantly was given Shang Tsung's ability to rise fire skulls from the ground in threes? I get it, people want to see more originality, but I don't want them to just scrap characters because many can't think outside the box that they obviously CAN be different once more effort goes into them. It's really not that hard to think of something new for everyone based upon their background and such... And it's really not that hard to make newer moves for characters that we have seen around a bit.
And yes, I know, I'm a Frost fan, I'm gonna be defensive about my favorite character. I'm sure if your favorites were in this position, you'd be defending him/her as well. So I'll repeat myself again, I'd rather seem Frost have some sort of redemption before just tossing her to a cameo only appearance.
I honestly don't understand the amount of hate this character gets because she has ice powers when we clearly have at least four militarized characters in this game who all play extremely different from one another. Also, I've stopped reading the amount of hate they all have received during pre-production, the only thing I see are minor complaints.
So I ask, what is so different from Frost to where she cannot come back, but everyone is perfectly content with four militarized characters, three fire wielders, two swordsman, two telekinetics, and a wizard who blatantly was given Shang Tsung's ability to rise fire skulls from the ground in threes? I get it, people want to see more originality, but I don't want them to just scrap characters because many can't think outside the box that they obviously CAN be different once more effort goes into them. It's really not that hard to think of something new for everyone based upon their background and such... And it's really not that hard to make newer moves for characters that we have seen around a bit.
And yes, I know, I'm a Frost fan, I'm gonna be defensive about my favorite character. I'm sure if your favorites were in this position, you'd be defending him/her as well. So I'll repeat myself again, I'd rather seem Frost have some sort of redemption before just tossing her to a cameo only appearance.
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ArcaneEsper
New member
I really don't understand why characters get so much flack when it's really the devs who are kinda responsible for the good and the bad. Just because Frost uses ice doesn't mean she's a clone of any sort. And if she were to ever return, I can say 100% that she and Sub Zero would play very differently. I would advise people hating on any character that, just because a fighter wasn't top tier one time 10 years ago-ish, do not write them off as "trash" there's hope for anyone (even the Hsu Hao's, the Mokap's and the Meat's) it falls to the devs to actually breathe life into the character. If any of the DA-D characters were introduced in MKX instead their movesets would've been pretty awesome and handled better so let's keep that in mind when we say "X shouldn't return because they sucked in 3D era"
p.W
New member
Liu Kang isn't known as "the fire guy." Fire moves are just the icing on his Bruce Lee cake. Shang Tsung isn't known as "the fire guy." Fire moves are just the icing on his shapeshifting sorcerer cake. Goro isn't known as "the fire guy." Fire moves are just the icing on his four-armed monster cake.
Sub-Zero is known as "the ice guy."
Frost is known as "the ice girl."
See the difference?
You think that making Frost "the snow girl" would be enough to change that, and I disagree. She needs to find a completely new shtick to be comparable to Liu/Shang/Goro/Scorp, so that the frost/snow/ice/fog/blizzard/whiteout/brainfreeze moves are just the icing on the cake of her character. The most interesting new shtick that's been proposed for her is "MMA fighter" based on the comic, and Cassie and Jacqui already have that covered. We don't need "Cassie's Brawler BUT WITH SNOW!"
OK, so let's say you give it a good think and you come up with a new shtick for her to convince non-believers. Awesome.
Except MKX has just re-cemented her status as just another ice ninja, and my desire to not see NRS retcon MKX already is much higher than my desire to see Frost salvaged as a character... so... yeah...
theincubuslord
New member
Cryo
New member
Why take a lame character and try to make him/her different when there are so many unique and more interesting characters left out already?
Why make Frost something she is not when there are characters who have an established gimmick nobody else has?
If they make frost an amazonian girl who has the power to manipulate plants she's unique and priginal, I'll give you that, but she's not Frost anymore so what's the point? Just call her Poison/plantar/Ivy/whatevs and done.
I doubt anyone can answer those questions and make it sound logical.
Ermac has telekinesis and is a pure telekinetic, Kenshi's powers are based on a spiritual projection of himself, an ancestral ghost and a swordsman. I can't see the resemblance.
Why make Frost something she is not when there are characters who have an established gimmick nobody else has?
If they make frost an amazonian girl who has the power to manipulate plants she's unique and priginal, I'll give you that, but she's not Frost anymore so what's the point? Just call her Poison/plantar/Ivy/whatevs and done.
I doubt anyone can answer those questions and make it sound logical.
Ermac has telekinesis and is a pure telekinetic, Kenshi's powers are based on a spiritual projection of himself, an ancestral ghost and a swordsman. I can't see the resemblance.
Kitty_55
Active member
Yes, I'm fully aware that several characters you listed aren't known only by what they wield, but I'm still standing with my point. People are perfectly fine with characters wielding powers that are similar towards another character with said power but are used differently to be in the same game. It's blatantly obvious and nothing from Frost's fans are going to convince that there's a chance out there, whether it's from a writer or some fan fic that gets stumbled upon or whatever, that she can have a better story, or come up with some better moves. But I would definitely LOVE to see that get changed, and here's why with my long ass post:
I get two ice wielders is too much. That one who used similar versions of another's moves is something that can never get replaced or let people know that she's "not a clone" despite she never was at all. (Please don't ask how, I don't want to repeat myself for the dozenth time, just agree to disagree if you completely disagree with that last sentence) The problem with all of that, she CAN have new moves, it's just from what I've read, some either don't think that's plausible, or feel that it's too much. But, because she has ice moves in the past, she's got a label on her and for some unfortunate reason, that label won't go away no matter how many times you try changing it, I guess?
And yeah, the five seconds of her cameo summed up people's opinions since she's basically placed back into the Lin Kuei. 'Cept, we dunno exactly HOW she got there since the last time we saw her before this game was being hauled into an ambulance and assume she's in Special Forces custody. I'd like SOME explanation rather than just pure speculation. But, because many are against the idea of seeing her in this game, I guess speculating how she got into the Lin Kuei is the only thing I can do at this moment.
Without giving some sort of chance, people are just left to sit here and say, "She's Lin Kuei, who cares how she got there, she's a pointless clone that can't be redeemed, onto a new character please."
And that's not really fair, because if I dare to do something like this in return to their favorites who aren't in the game who feels that they should, I know I'll get yelled at like crazy.
And believe me, I can think of several characters I can easily do this to, because instead of just immediately thinking she can't be redeemed, or feel like there's nothing to do with this character, I'm gonna go to option number three and say "there's chances that needs to happen if she is to come back." And that's all I really want from people, to stop immediately judging after one bad appearance and say, "There's a chance she could be a better character." But I won't see that. At least not from everyone. Not expecting, but hoping and wanting. I won't see it because many people always jump to immediate conclusions. Hell, Ferra Torr were thought up to be just some character(s) that won't be given a care in the world to, and I've seen various people claim they're amazing. It's stuff like that which really irritates me, and I kinda would love to see it stop happening.
Another problem is that I care enough to at least sit here and say, "I'd rather see one last shot with her before burying her amongst the other Mortal Kombat characters that will never get another chance at impressing people," and I know I'm not the only one sitting here saying the same thing. And my reason on not letting go so easily as others obviously have is not because of me being a huge fan of hers, it's because I'd rather see if the developers can redeem their mistakes. From just looking back at the past and knowing the stuff I do about her, she's fairly popular amongst the developing team, so I'm not going to doubt their abilities to create her in a way that's much different from her original appearance.
I can also easily turn this conversation around and say, I'd rather see her than a wind god that hasn't done anything but stay well behind the scenes, show up to surprise fans, then mysteriously go away without any given reason why. And I don't see his story differ at all other than just being this random god who protects Earthrealm.
Why do I want to see a character who just pops up then leaves without warning? I don't want to see that.
Sure, many could argue back, counter my points, but hey, if you can do this with Frost, I can do this with your favorites too.
And the point I'm trying to make with that is just give a character another chance before giving them the final straw. Because your characters can also suffer the same fate, but not too many are going to actually voice that. And yeah, was that a low blow? Possibly yeah. It's a low blow to basically have read what you posted since the impression I got from that is saying, "No matter how hard they try to rework the character, the damage has been done and they should just probably give up." Yeah, no... No, I don't really think that's fair nor do I want to see that.
And that's basically all I'm seeing here with those who are arguing that they don't want her in. Because she has a status amongst the non-Frost fans as a "clone," which I again say that she never was. Without thinking for a mere second, they can and could make her different and have a longer impression last on everyone rather than having her be just a "Sub-Zero with tits" kind of character. That's all I really want out of this thread. For people just take a second and say, "Ya know, maybe she does have that redeeming quality in her." Maybe it just takes a while to sink in, or have some random appearance of hers to make you look differently. Cameos won't do that much for her, or anyone in her status, (**Cough cough** Sareena **Cough, cough**) but I do believe she is redeemable.
Since you basically summed up everyone who is against the idea of seeing Frost return, I can only say, I agree to disagree with you and hope you do the same. I'm not giving up this defense for a character I really appreciated seeing once more, it's just, I've looked back in all the pages and I'm basically repeating myself, just wording things differently, and nothing really is coming out from what I'm trying to get... Same with other people. We got favorites, some might not like other's favorites or don't understand how and why they're popular, but at least you guys can't say that Frost's popularity didn't boasted a tad bit after her comic appearance. I mean, I think this is the most I've ever seen this character get talked about.
That says something.
And random rambling ranting. I apologize for the heavy amounts of editing I have done to this post. I will say though, I am not an "angry ticked off fan" or anything, I'm perfectly fine while writing and editing this, I respect your opinions as I'm hoping you at least respect mine. So, if anyone feels this was an angry post, please don't think that. I am not angry at all... Just bubbly, and trying to remain strong for a few friends that lost two buddies of theirs within the last week.
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Time_Bubbles
New member
No, Frost is known as the Ninja Cyromancer Girl and the only named Female Lin Kuei as well as Sub-Zero's Protege.
You also assume all MAA fighters fight the same way, they don't.
You also forget that Frost is EXTREMELY marketable.
Female Cyromancer.
Much faster and offensive fighting style. Frost was ALWAYS more aggressive to play as and faster than Sub-Zero.
Only Real Female Ninja in Mortal Kombat.
The Original Next Generation Character.
Unique Personality and Hair exclusive to herself.
Comic Book Appearances of the very well selling Mortal Kombat X Comic. - She's also set to return thus explaining how she joins the Lin Kuei and how Scorpion learns her name due to the Lin Kuei vs. Shirai Ryu stuff before Sub-Zero made peace.
The most requested Female Character now that Tanya is in the game. Sindel and Jade, despite being in MK1-3, are requested nowhere near as much.
Lin Kuei - Most popular Faction and the fact that she's the only named Female Character in the faction AND is Sub-Zero's Protege.
One of the most popular Female Characters of the 3D era, only Tanya is more popular.
A well-known fact that Boon and the Mortal Kombat Team loves her character.
Important ties to Popular characters and Factions - Cassie, Scorpion, Sub-Zero as well as Jacqui and Takeda. Than there's the Lin Kuei vs Shirai Ryu right that was mentioned in the game after Sub-Zero took over and Scorpion knows her by name.
Proteges - Shirai Ryu has Takeda, Lin Kuei has Frost
Cyromancer Story
Lack of Lin Kuei Members - Only Sub-Zero is in the game. Noob, Smoke, Sektor, and Cyrax are not a part of Sub-Zero's Lin Kuei which is the most popular faction in the game.
Fact is that Frost would sell really well due to all these things and much more.
Course you're just bias against her so I forgive you for not seeing the obvious as your agenda is not to ever see her again.
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Time_Bubbles
New member
Eh, let the haters hate.
Fact is that Frost is in this timeline, is extremely highly requested and very marketable.
The fact that all these things are a thing must really aggravate the haters since even if she isn't DLC for MKX she will be in MKXI which will be covering altered Deadly Alliance and Deception as despite Raiden changing the past things are still happening like Shinnok, dead Liu Kang, Revenant Allies (Though Onaga did it in Deception), Dark Raiden, and the such.
So no matter how much they hate Frost is inevitable. Heck, she's going to be in the comics more.
Fact is that Frost is in this timeline, is extremely highly requested and very marketable.
The fact that all these things are a thing must really aggravate the haters since even if she isn't DLC for MKX she will be in MKXI which will be covering altered Deadly Alliance and Deception as despite Raiden changing the past things are still happening like Shinnok, dead Liu Kang, Revenant Allies (Though Onaga did it in Deception), Dark Raiden, and the such.
So no matter how much they hate Frost is inevitable. Heck, she's going to be in the comics more.
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Misucra
Well-known member
My biggest problem is not with hate. My biggest problem is when I see insults.
As for Frost we will see. I am still skeptical about her future. My biggest problem in that regard is that her groundwork is exactly the same as in MK DA. She feels like the only character which didn't get some noticeable change. Hell her costume is a recycled Sub Zero's dafault one.
Elias6999
New member
I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the end of Frost. No matter how much you hate her, you have to admit she is one of the most developed post MK3 characters. All she lacks is memorable moves, although I would say her Ice Daggers are pretty recognizable.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong though, I really like Frost.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong though, I really like Frost.
Time_Bubbles
New member
Well, haters are never rational and they know they have nothing hence the insults to get under your skin. The fact that she's still around, highly requested (Her haters hate this), very marketable, and will be doing more in future comic issues means that she's going to be coming in MKX DLC and/or MKXI.
Frost hasn't betrayed Sub-Zero yet and she seemed loyal in the game as she assaulted Scorpion for talking to Sub-Zero as she sees him and the Shirai Ryu as a threat. That is new as the Shirai Ryu weren't a thing at that point in the old timeline.
MKLegion
New member
Sorry for asking but, has it been confirmed that she is going to make another appearance in the comics, because if its true that freaking awesome!
Time_Bubbles
New member
Yes, she's coming back.
The MKX Story also hints of her Comic return as...
We still don't know how she joined the Lin Kuei yet. Last we saw her she was taken into custody by Sonya Blade.
How she got out of the whole Special Forces thing to find the Lin Kuei in the first place.
How Sub-Zero makes her his Protege this time around, he even considers her the best female Lin Kuei they have.
Sub-Zero leads the Lin Kuei to fight the Scorpion lead Shirai Ryu which is the whole reason for the peace summit as he regrets it. This is apparently where Scorpion first meets Frost as he knows her by name in the game. From his tone he doesn't really like her so I assume she killed some Shirai Ryu. This also could tie a rivalry with Takeda as he is Shirai Ryu before she was Lin Kuei so he would be there.
Misucra
Well-known member
This ^. Maybe the biggest potential I saw in Frost is her becoming Sub Zero's successor. At least so far that is the best course of action for her, because if she will decide to betray Sub Zero... sigh.
Also they kinda had something cooking with Frost being taken by Special Forces. Would have been cool to see her as an special forces operative. But that would make too many special forces characters in one place.
Time_Bubbles
New member
Betrayal doesn't seem likely this time as Sub-Zero apparently has been training her for at least 5 years and she seemed loyal to him.
Misucra
Well-known member
Well we will have to see.
And even in that case, my biggest concern is her design. Tell me what you want, but her costume was really cheap. I mean if they were too lazy of thinking for new design, they could have at least used her old one. Just a HD version. And it is not like Kollective had no good designs for her... well except this one. I respect the work being put here, but just no...
I would put my current ones for them to use for ideas, but at their current state they don't really fit MK universe.