Frost for MKX

[BlyTorsk]

Only reason i'd want Frost in the game is so that there would be more lin kuei.. Sub-zero is the only lin kuei in mkx , but with that said id much rather have smoke back... But it would be cool to have Frost fight Takeda ..Who's the stronger protege?!

As for moveset..I think they could make her different enough from Sub-Zero. Make her more like Skarlet from MK9 , just replace blood with snow and ice maybe? So she could have jumping projecitles and a teleport , Sub has neither of them .. And instead of the huge blood ball Skarlet throws, it could just be a huge jagged ice ball, just to show that she is not as sophisticated as Sub with the Ice projectile.

Not saying she would jsut be an alternate skin Skarlet, but fill the same role as Skarlet did in mk9

 

[Demetrius]

It would actually be incredibly easy to diversify Frost from Sub Zero.

As she is the more aggressive ninja, you could combine her slide and freeze moves to give her a short (Sweep to jump) ranged dash that freezes the opponent if it connects, but is heavily punishable if blocked. Skarlet's daggers could return as icycles. Give her a dive kick and her non-variation specific moves are good to go and you have a character heavily leaning toward rushdown.

 

[Commander]

Takeda fights nothing like Scorpion or Kenshi.
Cassie fights nothing like Johnny Cage or Sonya Blade.
Jacqui fights nothing like Jax.

Need I go on?

So that is not an acceptable excuse against Frost who never fought like Sub-Zero.

Whether she fights nothing like Sub-Zero now is yet to be seen, and I agree 100% with you on that part.

That said, as for her past, YES, she definitely did fight like Sub-Zero, had similarities in some moves and flat-out stole a few other moves, so it's not hard to see why 3D era Frost left a bad taste in people's mouths.

I can't speak for everyone else, but as for myself, I want to see more originality in Frost other than "Oooh, she has a variant of Sub-Zero's MKI / MKII Ice Slide" or "Ooh, she has Sub-Zero's MKII Ice Puddle."
For example:
- Give her some Ice pop-up moves.
- A teleport or parry of some kind.
- An Ice move that doesn't completely freeze the opponent but rather slows them down, since she hasn't quite mastered her Cryomancer powers like Grandmaster Sub-Zero has.

You know, make her more original like Takeda, Cassie and Jacqui are original.

 

[Rocanrol]

Frost should be a highly weapon oriented fighter, like cryomancer subzero, but crazyer! Maybe some steroid regarding ice daggers? and then throwable? Maybe some kind of ground effect? Like a mix between the icy floor from sub in MK2 and Erron Black caltrops?

 

[Time_Bubbles]

Whether she fights nothing like Sub-Zero now is yet to be seen, and I agree 100% with you on that part.

That said, as for her past, YES, she definitely did fight like Sub-Zero, had similarities in some moves and flat-out stole a few other moves, so it's not hard to see why 3D era Frost left a bad taste in people's mouths.

I can't speak for everyone else, but as for myself, I want to see more originality in Frost other than "Oooh, she has a variant of Sub-Zero's MKI / MKII Ice Slide" or "Ooh, she has Sub-Zero's MKII Ice Puddle."
For example:
- Give her some Ice pop-up moves.
- A teleport or parry of some kind.
- An Ice move that doesn't completely freeze the opponent but rather slows them down, since she hasn't quite mastered her Cryomancer powers like Grandmaster Sub-Zero has.

You know, make her more original like Takeda, Cassie and Jacqui are original.

No she didn't. They didnt even have the same moveset or opening string. You're thinking of a couple of her specials, not her actual moveset.

She did have a teleport in Armageddon.

She's been training with him for over 5 years by the time mkx starts. So she isn't a novice anymore.

She only left a bad taste to those that didn't even play as her.

 

[Commander]

No she didn't. They didnt even have the same moveset or opening string. You're thinking of a couple of her specials, not her actual moveset.

She did have a teleport in Armageddon.

She's been training with him for over 5 years by the time mkx starts. So she isn't a novice anymore.

She only left a bad taste to those that didn't even play as her.

She felt too much like him in gameplay, IMO.

Yup, and they should give her that teleport back.

I know that she's been training with him, but she's still not at the Grandmaster's level, and her moves should reflect that.
Even Kaui tells Hanzo in MKX that Frost has much to learn, that she doesn't understand the notion of peace, and that he will deal with her later.
Her moves should reflect that.

Why do you assume such things?
She left a bad taste in my mouth, and I did indeed play as her.
Much like with EVERY single MK game that I play, I also played as all the characters in the MK4 thru MK: A era rosters, before I form an opinion on them or find out who my main is going to be.
I try out every single character because I never know what my main for that game will be.
Had I not tried out Nightwolf in MK9, I never would have known that he would be 1 of my mains in that game, and the same goes for Rain.
Just because she felt too similar to Sub-Zero, IMO, and I didn't like her, doesn't make my opinion any less valid, as you are implying.
I'm willing to accept an overhaul for her in future games, but yeah, her previous version left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Time_Bubbles]

Only with a few of her specials. Moveset wise she was far different and she did have some specials like her teleport that Sub-Zero never had.

That ws a flashback set 5 years before mkx. He has been training her since. So he has already dealt with her since she's the best female Lin Kuei and she hasn't started a war with the Shirai Ryu.

Her powers should fit a more aggressive style and could use more close combat and explosions.

 

[Misucra]

She felt too much like him in gameplay, IMO.

Yup, and they should give her that teleport back.

I know that she's been training with him, but she's still not at the Grandmaster's level, and her moves should reflect that.
Even Kaui tells Hanzo in MKX that Frost has much to learn, that she doesn't understand the notion of peace, and that he will deal with her later.
Her moves should reflect that.

Why do you assume such things?
She left a bad taste in my mouth, and I did indeed play as her.
Much like with EVERY single MK game that I play, I also played as all the characters in the MK4 thru MK: A era rosters, before I form an opinion on them or find out who my main is going to be.
I try out every single character because I never know what my main for that game will be.
Had I not tried out Nightwolf in MK9, I never would have known that he would be 1 of my mains in that game, and the same goes for Rain.
Just because she felt too similar to Sub-Zero, IMO, and I didn't like her, doesn't make my opinion any less valid, as you are implying.
I'm willing to accept an overhaul for her in future games, but yeah, her previous version left a bad taste in my mouth.

One thing I disagree Commander is that making bad judgement calls is not = poor combat skills. Let's not forget that she used to do fighting for food.
Sub Zero said so himself. Frost is powerful, but lacks judgement.

 

[Rocanrol]

Indeed she should show real prowess with his cryomancer powers, and i totally agree that it should have a really agressive playstyle... Maybe take more things from killer frost (being the original inspiration for the character), and maybe some kind of parry (I picture in my head the Icy Counter from MKvsDC)... although, she shouldn't have any teleports... Not even Subzero does that (except in MkvsDc )

 

[Misucra]

Indeed she should show real prowess with his cryomancer powers, and i totally agree that it should have a really agressive playstyle... Maybe take more things from killer frost (being the original inspiration for the character), and maybe some kind of parry (I picture in my head the Icy Counter from MKvsDC)... although, she shouldn't have any teleports... Not even Subzero does that (except in MkvsDc )

Well actually she should have teleports. Not to mention it was shown time and time again that Sub Zero can use his ice powers to teleport form one place to another (not in gameplay but in MK9 intros, and I think I saw that once in MKX cutscene? (not sure about that)

She could have a variation where she is like a Trickster. She encases herself in ice, but if opponent touches it he doesn't get frozen. Actually ice statue shatter and she appears from behind and hits the opponent or something like that. Hell it would be cool if she could mix attacks like that.

She falls towards the ground and shatters, and immediately appears behind/in front of opponent and hits him with a punch. Would look like a cool animation. She could use momentum of her fall to increase her punching power. You know like in portal game you use portals to increase your speed.

Or just simply while fighting she could encase herself in ice. Her ice clone would fall and shatter (if she did that in air) or would just remain standing, while she would go behind the opponent and beat the crap out of him. Good way to mess with opponent.

And as for the slide. I am on the front "she shouldn't use Sub Zero ice slide" unless she would encase herself in ice and slide towards opponent and immediately stop while launching an ice clone of hers forward and because of momentum her ice clone would fly towards opponent and send him flying.

Hell or Ice Breath! She could use it to blind her opponents or during throws, freeze opponents head and then kick him with her knee in DA FACE AND SEND HIM FLYING.. OR OR ICE KNUCKLES!!! ICE KNUCKLES WITH BLADES! ICE BAZOOKAS!

DAMN IT! She is BATMAN NOW AAAAARRGH FOIJFIORJGOSTJGH

 

[Commander]

One thing I disagree Commander is that making bad judgement calls is not = poor combat skills. Let's not forget that she used to do fighting for food.
Sub Zero said so himself. Frost is powerful, but lacks judgement.

True, but my comment was just finding a way to differentiate the 2 of them more (Sub-Zero and Frost), by way of playstyle and incorporating that into her story.
Fight for food?
The comic mentioned her being an orphan, but just because she was an orphan as a child doesn't mean that her situation didn't change or get better as an adult.
Did the comic ever mention her being homeless as an adult? (I seriously don't recall.)
Story mode never did.

[MENTION=16568]Misucra[/MENTION]
Post #410 is exactly what I was trying to get at.
Original moves for an original character.
Not copied moves for an original character.
I like your ideas for her moves in your last post, but I want her to be less like Sub-Zero and more like her own character; Frost.

 

[Time_Bubbles]

It didn't get better as she's still alone of the streets fighting in death matches to survive. She than goes to join the Lin Kuei at some point which evetually leads to the flashback in the story mode.

 

[MKLegion]

I wonder if her being an orphan had always been a thing or it was a timeline change due to the netherrealm war taking place on earth?

 

[Misucra]

True, but my comment was just finding a way to differentiate the 2 of them more (Sub-Zero and Frost), by way of playstyle and incorporating that into her story.
Fight for food?
The comic mentioned her being an orphan, but just because she was an orphan as a child doesn't mean that her situation didn't change or get better as an adult.
Did the comic ever mention her being homeless as an adult? (I seriously don't recall.)
Story mode never did.

[MENTION=16568]Misucra[/MENTION]
Post #410 is exactly what I was trying to get at.
Original moves for an original character.
Not copied moves for an original character.
I like your ideas for her moves in your last post, but I want her to be less like Sub-Zero and more like her own character; Frost.

Ok aside my crappy jokes. Here is my question. How do we define Frost? How do we define her style? We had a glimpse of her in MK DA, even so a lot of her moves were unrefined or borrowed from Sub Zero. Yes she had some unique moves, but a lot of them felt like a copy from Sub Zero, which were poorly modified to fit her. Like Sub Zero's default costume, put on Frost and resized for her in MKX.
For me Frost is blank right now.
Now in MKX we only can say she is aggressive. Other than that we know nothing about how she fights. We cannot assume she fights the same way as she did in MK DA. Because..

1. We do not now if she spent time with special forces or not. If she did and train under them she might have picked certain skills from them, which in return changed her style to some point.
2. Her fight with Cassie could have changed her character a bit. After suffering humiliating defeat and being saved by Cassie she could reflect on her mistakes and use that to improve herself.
3. Also if she had some training in military base, she could have a pretty huge arsenal of styles. Dog/Street fighting, Military training, Lin Kuei. Damn. That would be awesome actually.
4. Or most likely (because I am still a skeptical jerk) she will be the same as MK DA, cause meeting Cassie had no effect on her and she is still arrogant dumba$$, just in HD and I will roll my eyes and live in my alternate world.

The comic mentioned her being an orphan, but just because she was an orphan as a child doesn't mean that her situation didn't change or get better as an adult.
Did the comic ever mention her being homeless as an adult? (I seriously don't recall.)

You forgot to take into a account Earthrealm's condition. If she is an orphan ant let's just say she was a little kid/or just born during Outworld and Netherealm invasions. It is very likely that she like many other, grew up on streets.

Also unless she likes fighting, how she could end up in the dark corner like that death match cage? Usually poor living conditions force you to do rash things like that. Especially if she wasn't in Lin Kuei during that time. What pushed her to learn fighting? Maybe that was her only source of income? Giving entertainment to rich fat bastards who enjoy seeing blood.
Also her dialogue kinda hints she had a harsh time up until now(of course it could be exaggeration, but not likely).

 

[Commander]

Ok aside my crappy jokes. Here is my question. How do we define Frost? How do we define her style? We had a glimpse of her in MK DA, even so a lot of her moves were unrefined or borrowed from Sub Zero. Yes she had some unique moves, but a lot of them felt like a copy from Sub Zero, which were poorly modified to fit her. Like Sub Zero's default costume, put on Frost and resized for her in MKX.
For me Frost is blank right now.
Now in MKX we only can say she is aggressive. Other than that we know nothing about how she fights. We cannot assume she fights the same way as she did in MK DA. Because..

1. We do not now if she spent time with special forces or not. If she did and train under them she might have picked certain skills from them, which in return changed her style to some point.
2. Her fight with Cassie could have changed her character a bit. After suffering humiliating defeat and being saved by Cassie she could reflect on her mistakes and use that to improve herself.
3. Also if she had some training in military base, she could have a pretty huge arsenal of styles. Dog/Street fighting, Military training, Lin Kuei. Damn. That would be awesome actually.
4. Or most likely (because I am still a skeptical jerk) she will be the same as MK DA, cause meeting Cassie had no effect on her and she is still arrogant dumba$$, just in HD and I will roll my eyes and live in my alternate world.

I agree that Frost is a blank slate now. I never debated that, at all.
I'm just saying that I want to see something more original for her, THIS time around, rather than more of her 3D era stuff.

You forgot to take into a account Earthrealm's condition. If she is an orphan ant let's just say she was a little kid/or just born during Outworld and Netherealm invasions. It is very likely that she like many other, grew up on streets.

Also unless she likes fighting, how she could end up in the dark corner like that death match cage? Usually poor living conditions force you to do rash things like that. Especially if she wasn't in Lin Kuei during that time. What pushed her to learn fighting? Maybe that was her only source of income? Giving entertainment to rich fat bastards who enjoy seeing blood.
Also her dialogue kinda hints she had a harsh time up until now(of course it could be exaggeration, but not likely).

I didn't forget anything.
Her being an orphan on the streets as a child doesn't mean that she grew up and didn't better herself in the process.
You're just assuming that.
We know ZERO about Frost between the events of the MKX comics and her meeting up with Kuai-Liang.

That's not the case all the time, though.
Again, you're just assuming and generalizing.
There are plenty of strippers who probably do it to support themselves or pay their way through college, but at the same time there are also those that love doing that.
How do we know that Frost doesn't just love fighting in MMA / Death Matches because she gets a natural high in knowing that she can beat people, especially with her being undefeated going into the fight with Cassie???

 

[Rocanrol]

I can't recall if there was any type character development for Frost in the comments, but i like how her experiences should influence greatly in her theoric gameplay variations...

I imagine her being forced to fight to survive, being the overall situation of Earthrealm really bad after the invasions... Maybe after discovering her powers she became confidents in her abilities compared to other people (mainly in the streets), so there i could understand why would she be arrogant and hot-tempered... Same reason her abilities wouldn't developed that much compared to other cryomancers...

I still don't see her using teleports... but the statue counter emphasizes that "yness"

Spoiler:

And i loved the idea of Frost using the frost breath! Maybe like a mid ranged freeze attack?

 

[TheDeaconBosco]

I can think of at least one way Sub Zero's cryomancer abilities have never been used in a way that Frost could instead.
You know when you lick a lamp post in the winter and your tongue sticks to it, now imagine how two frozen hands would feel on your skin, now imagine those hands on a trained assassin and you get a pretty good idea for one variation that's geared towards grappling.

 

[Kitty_55]

As much as I love the teleport move she had in Armageddon, I'd prefer her not having it for the sake of making her still feel like she is still learning her abilities. To me, learning how to properly teleport means that she would have a good grasp on her abilities, and granted that she would most likely have a good grip on them, I feel giving her that ability would make her feel a bit too powerful. I mean Sub-Zero doesn't have one.

Of course, this is just what I think. I feel she should have nothing that freezes at all. There's a lot of good ice abilities I have seen in Diablo with the wizard and sorceress class like a mist beam or have like a mist aura for a couple of seconds to have around her, get caught you get slowed. Her actual fighting abilities should have a combination of what she used during her MMA and Lin Kuei and if possible, Special Forces, that is if they taught her anything.

She can be a middle speed fighter and fast depending on what skills you want her to dominate in. Being that she's smaller, she should be faster. But then again, we don't have that many slow moving females.

 

[Misucra]

I agree that Frost is a blank slate now. I never debated that, at all.
I'm just saying that I want to see something more original for her, THIS time around, rather than more of her 3D era stuff.





I didn't forget anything.
Her being an orphan on the streets as a child doesn't mean that she grew up and didn't better herself in the process.
You're just assuming that.
We know ZERO about Frost between the events of the MKX comics and her meeting up with Kuai-Liang.

That's not the case all the time, though.
Again, you're just assuming and generalizing.
There are plenty of strippers who probably do it to support themselves or pay their way through college, but at the same time there are also those that love doing that.
How do we know that Frost doesn't just love fighting in MMA / Death Matches because she gets a natural high in knowing that she can beat people, especially with her being undefeated going into the fight with Cassie???

Indeed I am just assuming, amigos. All of that above was just an assumptions which I made by observing her backstory and events around her.

I'm just saying that I want to see something more original for her, THIS time around, rather than more of her 3D era stuff.

You and me both, mate.

We know ZERO about Frost between the events of the MKX comics and her meeting up with Kuai-Liang.

Exactly that's why I wrote multiple possibilities.

As much as I love the teleport move she had in Armageddon, I'd prefer her not having it for the sake of making her still feel like she is still learning her abilities. To me, learning how to properly teleport means that she would have a good grasp on her abilities, and granted that she would most likely have a good grip on them, I feel giving her that ability would make her feel a bit too powerful. I mean Sub-Zero doesn't have one.

[MENTION=16500]Kitty_55[/MENTION] Even if she is learning beneath Sub Zero doesn't mean she cannot learn different ways of using her powers. Also back in MK DA she was considered Prodigy. So unless she suffered brain damage from Cassie's last headbutt I don't see why she couldn't learn a whole different set of "ice skills" which Sub Zero doesn't have. Let's not forget that Sub Zero is using his ice powers according to his own style. Frost is a different animal.

P.S Used an opportunity to refresh my "looks".

 

[Kitty_55]

Yeah I know she could use her powers differently, I just don't think a teleport is something I think she should have for a student.