Do you think Kitana and Mileena would make the cut?

[Commander]

Yes.

NRS may have had intentions of getting you to see them as sex icons. But you only notice because you subconsciously objectify them as well when they appear half naked.

I don't react cuz I don't objectify. To even notice is because of social standards and your inner beast trying to tell you something about what you see.

The reason you and I don't act like animals once we see it is because we can reason and logic.

No.

NRS presenting them as sex icons in MK IS them objectifying them.
Everyone notices this, but some don't care as much.

I don't objectify either.
Noticing that someone is almost naked =/= objectifying.
It's pointing out the obvious.
To not notice is to be blind.
Noticing =/= salivating at what's on the screen, which is what you're erroneously pointing out.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Mileena is almost nude with that TP costume.

 

[Ricochetmatt]

I'm a girl and I don't see where the problem is with Kitana or Jade outfit. They are realistic because these outfits distract male opponent.

Of course, a titanium integral armor would be more protective, but it blocked movement. These girls choose the sexy distraction rather than the protection.
However, Sonya Blade's outfit, as a military, has no sense.

You being a girl doesn't make it a non issue. Women freely degrade themselves on a daily basis. Just look at the women in that Robin Thicke video.


Now, I'm not a prude or feel that everyone should cover up and stay covered up. I am very open to nudity and would be lying if I said most if not all of my friends haven't seen me naked before. But I am not a fan of using sex or nudity as a way of selling a product. Which is what NRS did with the female characters.

It wasn't about "Nudity is natural" or "Nudity is weapon" cause in that case, the men would dress down as well. Nope. The men are all covered up to point of being a little ridiculous (armor on top of armor) and the women were running around with thin strips of fabric just barely covering their lady bits.... WHILE touching themselves, mind you. If I had a nickel for every time Mileena rubbed her tits, I'd have a Playstation 4 by now.

 

[Critical-Limit]

There was no reason for the TP costume to even exist. Yeah, sure... She was created in a giant tube and what not, but we didn't have to see her like that in the story. It wasn't necessary. And it definitely wasn't necessary to use it as an alternate costume for her. It's especially irritating knowing that the damn thing was a "reward" for completing the Challenge Tower.

That costume existed for one reason. Sex. Cause sex was the only thing used to describe Mileena's character in MK9.

You mis-understand me. Did I not say they could've wrote it differently?

Do you criticize other mediums that feature test tube beings as naked?

I also never claimed that costume to be a good idea or that it was a good tower reward.

Stay on subject man.

 

[Critical-Limit]

No.

NRS presenting them as sex icons in MK IS them objectifying them.
Everyone notices this, but some don't care as much.

I don't objectify either.
Noticing that someone is almost naked =/= objectifying.
It's pointing out the obvious.
To not notice is to be blind.
Noticing =/= salivating at what's on the screen, which is what you're erroneously pointing out.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Mileena is almost nude with that TP costume.

Sorry but until you study some psychology and sociology I'm done debating you.

I didn't say you intended to objectify them. You're programmed over generations to see sex as something you should get. Try going to a 3rd world country. Seeing naked people becomes no big deal. They un-objectify, it by being constantly disposed to it.

Me being able to not objectify them may have come from seeing too much ecchi in manga. So I've been constantly exposed to the point I don't see them the way you see them.

I don't disagree NRS that it's 99.9% likely that they are objectifying them, and hope you spend your wallet on that reason as a plus.

 

[Ricochetmatt]

You mis-understand me. Did I not say they could've wrote it differently?

Do you criticize other mediums that feature test tube beings as naked?

I also never claimed that costume to be a good idea or that it was a good tower reward.

Stay on subject man.

No, I don't criticize other mediums in which people are naked for the sake of the story. My problem with Mileena and NRS is that this was used to only sell sex. It was a prize for people to work for in the game. 300 challenges and you get an even MORE naked Mileena! Woo hoo!

Too many women suffer from eating disorders every day due to that kind of treatment of women in all forms of media.

Nudity is fine. Unrealistic and unnecessary nudity used to sell a product... is not okay. People are stupid. People absorb that bizarre mentality and force it on themselves.

 

[Critical-Limit]

No, I don't criticize other mediums in which people are naked for the sake of the story. My problem with Mileena and NRS is that this was used to only sell sex. It was a prize for people to work for in the game. 300 challenges and you get an even MORE naked Mileena! Woo hoo!

Too many women suffer from eating disorders every day due to that kind of treatment of women in all forms of media.

Nudity is fine. Unrealistic and unnecessary nudity used to sell a product... is not okay. People are stupid. People absorb that bizarre mentality and force it on themselves.

Uh... Mileena was like that for sake of story, any story ever written ever could be changed to have less naked.

You finding her attractive is subjective.

No one is saying NRS didn't have intention of that.

Girls starving themselves isn't because of movies and story telling or games.

That has to do with real people most likely bullying them into that state. You're no different than Fox News blaming problems on work of fiction. When the real problem is real people making people behave like that.

 

[Commander]

Sorry but until you study some psychology and sociology I'm done debating you.

I didn't say you intended to objectify them. You're programmed over generations to see sex as something you should get. Try going to a 3rd world country. Seeing naked people becomes no big deal. They un-objectify, it by being constantly disposed to it.

Me being able to not objectify them may have come from seeing too much ecchi in manga. So I've been constantly exposed to the point I don't see them the way you see them.

I don't disagree NRS that it's 99.9% likely that they are objectifying them, and hope you spend your wallet on that reason as a plus.

I'm married to a psychologist, so I sure as hell don't need to study it.

Yes, you did say that I objectified them:

But you only notice because you subconsciously objectify them as well when they appear half naked.

Good for you that Japanese Anime porn has desensitized you to it.
Again, noticing these things =/= objectifying, as you are erroneously comparing the 2.

Also, it's quite different when NRS animates Mileena touching herself sexually after performing a fatality.
Had Mileena NOT done that, then maybe I could see where it's just a case of nudity standards.
Animating her like that, though, IS objectifying.

 

[Cyber Reptile]

Naked Mileena as a reward for challenge tower was one of my most depressing moments in gaming.I was expecting Shao Kahn as a playable character,and....perhaps is my fault for not looking it up on the net.I can`t imagine what they were thinking when they did that lol.Really,who`s gonna complete the full tower in excitment to get Mileena wearing toilet paper? It doesn`t make sense to me.

 

[Ricochetmatt]

Uh... Mileena was like that for sake of story, any story ever written ever could be changed to have less naked.

You finding her attractive is subjective.

No one is saying NRS didn't have intention of that.

Girls starving themselves isn't because of movies and story telling or games.

That has to do with real people most likely bullying them into that state. You're no different than Fox News blaming problems on work of fiction. When the real problem is real people making people behave like that.

Someone leaving her spread out on a table wrapped ever so carefully to only really cover her nipples and vagina was incredibly forced and cheap. The story does not justify the situation at all. Especially with that particular storyline being retconned as Mileena originally grew up with Kitana. The whole thing was done purposely to be make the game a little more edgy and "sexy".

I don't find her attractive.

And take it from someone who is surrounded by women on a daily basis... The thin busty women seen on billboards, in advertisements, movies, video games, television... DOES effect them. My sister has SERIOUS insecurities and refuses to date any gorgeous guy who shows interest in her, only because she's not the same body type as the woman typically shown to date guys like him in the media.

And don't compare me to Fox News. While I don't like the idea of objectifying women in order to cash in on them, I do believe in artistic freedom. But what we are talking about here is not artistic freedom. It's business at the expense of people's lives.

If the women of Mortal Kombat had something substantial to do in regards to the plot, I'd be less pissed off about it. But that's not the case. They are all nothing more than sex objects in most of the games.

 

[GloriousDK]

I agree with ricochet on this one. I guess I could uneasily accept that k and j used sex appeal as a weapon, but my instincts tell me that it is obvious pandering toward young male sex fantasies to sell the game. The women are objectified by the artists, not the player who is calling out the objectification of women. Milleena was an obvious and blatant pander towards the objectification of women, not an expression of female sexuality like some are claiming. My god, especially the latter.

Dollars to doughnuts, if you interviewed most women and asked them what a woman would wear to a fight, the majority would not say that women would throw on their best stripper outfit. This is exactly why I can't enjoy playing mortal kombat with my girlfriend because even Sonya is stupidly sexual for a military woman. There are no female fighters my girlfriend can relate to because they all really are lowest common denominator strippers. Cassie cage breaks that mold finally and my gf is so excited to play as her because she really is just a badass with an attitude and isn't just designed to titillate 15 year old boys. I hope n r s continues this trend with the majority of the woman fighters.

 

[YungQ94]

Hey can I interrupt this debate with a question?

How in the fvck are we still arguing about goddamn VIDEO GAME (DIGITAL/FICTION/NOT REAL) costumes? This thread was for a simple speculation point to see if Kitana or Mileena would be in MK10.

Yet somehow you people are arguing over clothes.

Shit man the internet and its lack of open mindedness rubs me the wrong way sometimes.

 

[Kzaoo]

Let's put this scenario in a different context.

A movie portrays every black man as a rapping, raping, murdering psychopath that listens to gangsta rap and throws money around.

You say "That's kinda racist."

Somebody else shakes their head vehemently and says, "No YOU'RE the racist for pointing it out."

It seems kind of off, right?

Well, personally, I can't say that the women are objectified... I mean, are we seeing them as objects? I certainly don't. Sindel played a pretty significant part and many of the men were just as insignificant as the women (Baraka, Kano) but I certainly believe that the portrayal of them was distasteful.

However, I can see why people think that female MK characters are being objectified, but I can't say I do. Most of my problems regarding this are in the poor design choices. It just seemed cheap and lazy.

 

[Ricochetmatt]

Hey can I interrupt this debate with a question?

How in the fvck are we still arguing about goddamn VIDEO GAME (DIGITAL/FICTION/NOT REAL) costumes? This thread was for a simple speculation point to see if Kitana or Mileena would be in MK10.

Yet somehow you people are arguing over clothes.

Shit man the internet and its lack of open mindedness rubs me the wrong way sometimes.

Are you really whining about a serious discussion on a serious problem within the series existing in an already unnecessary thread? It's not an argument over clothes, for crying out loud. Read the damn discussion before you bi*** about it.

 

[iViTal]

Are you really whining about a serious discussion on a serious problem within the series existing in an already unnecessary thread?

It's only serious to those who actually care.

Me personally, I could care less. It's not like changing their design will fix the major problems the franchise has as a whole.

Mileena has always been my favorite character in MK, since her debut in MKII but I've never had a problem with the way she dressed. I'm more interested in character portrayal over design.

 

[GloriousDK]

Let's put this scenario in a different context.

Right.

A movie portrays every black man as a rapping, raping, murdering psychopath that listens to gangsta rap and throws money around.

You say "That's kinda racist."

Because it is.

Somebody else shakes their head vehemently and says, "No YOU'RE the racist for pointing it out."

Deliberately trying to make one's self color blind to the race issues isn't solving racism, even though they think that all they have to do is get to a point of seeing something racist and seeing nothing wrong with it as progress towards being non-racist. It's wrong of course and just because they got to a point of not giving half a shit about the issues doesn't invalidate the criticism that you mentioned. There is merit in the critique that your scenario is text book racist.

It seems kind of off, right?

Because it is off. It's people saying there is no fire because their apartment isn't in flames while the whole building is burning down around them.

Well, personally, I can't say that the women are objectified... I mean, are we seeing them as objects? I certainly don't. Sindel played a pretty significant part and many of the men were just as insignificant as the women (Baraka, Kano) but I certainly believe that the portrayal of them was distasteful.

Because Baraka and Kano were lackies. Even female characters don't have to be lackies to be objectified. Blood Rayne is the heroine of her story, yet she's another example of the objectification of women, though I can imagine some worse offenders.

However, I can see why people think that female MK characters are being objectified, but I can't say I do.

I think I can appreciate your neutral stance on the issue. All I can tell you is that sexuality and gender studies would have a field day with MK9.

 

[YungQ94]

Oh I'm sorry this "serious" discussion about clothes or women integrity or whatever the fvck is not really that serious.

Where were you people when Dead or Alive came out with a volleyball game or when the game developers made Rumbling Roses. Hell in Street Fighter Cammy wears a goddamn leotard that shows off her ass all the time.

Yet here you MK fans are complaining about costume designs in a damn video game.

You realize that NRS could have taken it a step further and just put them in bikinis in Dead or Alive right? Amped it up with more jiggling physics too. But no, they choose to put those types of outfits on them because of the whole reboot thing.

Whatever. If you guys really hate hiw women are portayed in MK thtough fvcking clothes then pick the classic costumes.

Shit.

/rant

 

[Ricochetmatt]

It's only serious to those who actually care.

Me personally, I could care less. It's not like changing their design will fix the major problems the franchise has as a whole.

Mileena has always been my favorite character in MK, since her debut in MKII but I've never had a problem with the way she dressed. I'm more interested in character portrayal over design.

Her portrayal in MK9 was that of a sex object. She literally did nothing else but walk around in a stripper outfit while giggling and touching herself.

 

[Commander]

Dollars to doughnuts, if you interviewed most women and asked them what a woman would wear to a fight, the majority would not say that women would throw on their best stripper outfit. This is exactly why I can't enjoy playing mortal kombat with my girlfriend because even Sonya is stupidly sexual for a military woman. There are no female fighters my girlfriend can relate to because they all really are lowest common denominator strippers. Cassie cage breaks that mold finally and my gf is so excited to play as her because she really is just a badass with an attitude and isn't just designed to titillate 15 year old boys. I hope n r s continues this trend with the majority of the woman fighters.

I can't give "Thanks" at the moment, but kudos to your 2nd paragraph.
My wife loves Mortal Kombat as well, and we did some casual MK9 matches.
She saw Kitana, Mileena and Sonya in MK9 and was like "I don't ever remember them dressing like that in previous Mortal Kombat games (mainly referring to Mileena)."
She couldn't relate to any of them, because it didn't seem logical to wear that in a fight, especially the high heels.
When we both saw the gameplay videos of Cassie Cage and D'Vorah, she actually saw 2 female characters that she could identify with in MK X.

 

[GloriousDK]

It's only serious to those who actually care.

Me personally, I could care less. It's not like changing their design will fix the major problems the franchise has as a whole.

Mileena has always been my favorite character in MK, since her debut in MKII but I've never had a problem with the way she dressed. I'm more interested in character portrayal over design.

In that case, if you don't care about how she's designed, then you wont mind her being in perhaps a full blown purple kung fu suit with like... nothing sexual at all about it. Everything else would stay the same though... you know with her fighting style and how she's supposed to pretend to be Kitana to mislead everyone. Nothing else changes, but now she's dressed as a nun or something.

Point is, if you don't care, that's you. But a lot of people DO care and just because it doesn't bother you doesn't mean it invalidates the critiques and complaints people would have with it.

 

[Kzaoo]

Right.



Because it is.



Deliberately trying to make one's self color blind to the race issues isn't solving racism, even though they think that all they have to do is get to a point of seeing something racist and seeing nothing wrong with it as progress towards being non-racist. It's wrong of course and just because they got to a point of not giving half a shit about the issues doesn't invalidate the criticism that you mentioned. There is merit in the critique that your scenario is text book racist.



Because it is off. It's people saying there is no fire because their apartment isn't in flames while the whole building is burning down around them.



Because Baraka and Kano were lackies. Even female characters don't have to be lackies to be objectified. Blood Rayne is the heroine of her story, yet she's another example of the objectification of women, though I can imagine some worse offenders.



I think I can appreciate your neutral stance on the issue. All I can tell you is that sexuality and gender studies would have a field day with MK9.

I never said the different context was right here. I was using it as an example of showing what Critical sounded like. It didn't sound that bad in the context he was saying it in, but put it in a different context and it shows how illogical it is.

I've never played Blood Rayne, so I can't say much about that, but a lot of characters who are objectified are seen as much more than an object. Like, if you take away their appearance from the equation and just look at their stories, they can stand alone. When the character is literally nothing more than a pair of walking tits, that's when I start to see it as objectification. Otherwise, I just see it as distasteful.