Sub-Zero

[Gouki]

OMG! You just really made me think about it and honestly if they started their own action/adventure series with those 2 then honestly I might not play Mk. I feel horrible saying that.

Ive said it before though that if Sub-Zero(Kuai Liang) had his own series I would probably leave for that. I stay with it because Subz is my favorite character in any medium. He's batman, but better (actually has powers). Ice powers at that which is my favorite element. However since I cant see him outside of Mk I want to see him in MK.

I would play an Mk game with all new characters minus Raiden, Sub-Zero, and Scorpion. I feel those 3 are mainstays. Actually add Noob Saibot and Shang Tsung. Then mold every new character around them.

Alright, Based on your answer, would that make you an "MKfan" or just a Sub Zero fanboy...?


Also, Because Batman does NOT have powers, thats what makes Batman, the gotdamn Batman... so a batman 'with powers' is not Batman nor better than.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

If you want to run with my Beatles analogy, fine; sub-one is the Mark David Chapman of the Mortal Kombat fanbase.

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[Subz 711]

Alright, Based on your answer, would that make you an "MKfan" or just a Sub Zero fanboy...?


Also, Because Batman does NOT have powers, thats what makes Batman, the gotdamn Batman... so a batman 'with powers' is not Batman nor better than.

Oh I would definitely say a Sub-Zero fanboy. Im not denying it at all. I still want the best for Mk too because I love other characters as well, but Ive faced facts those other characters aren't going to get any spotlight.

My top 5 are Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang), Cyber Smoke (hate human smoke), Jade, Rain, and Noob Saibot (Bi-Han). That's why I argue for Bi-Han as being Noob though because I absolutely loved that twist in Deception. I think he makes an amazing bad guy.

You could say Raiden is number 6.

Out of those characters I know for sure that

Cyber Smoke is never getting spotlight again...ever. I think we have probably seen the last of him.

They have never done anything meaningful with Jade.

They have never done anything meaningful with Rain.

That leaves Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot. Im not a hipster who likes to root for the bad guy so Sub-Zero is my favorite through and through. Honestly I wish Noob was his rival instead of Scorpion. That would be much more compelling in my book.

Also I wont cheer for Raiden anymore because I feel his character became a complete dumbass in Mk9. Hell, Mk9's story ruined a good portion of my characters. I will say this about Smoke. He still did nothing as a human in Mk9. Just like I knew he would before mk9 was released. Being a cyborg was meant for him. Its all he had, and they took it away from him to ruin arguably one of the best character developments they had.

The only good part of Mk9 was hearing Kuai Liang say "You are right, we are not brothers." I couldn't even fully enjoy that though because he was a damn cyborg.

Sub-One is right about one thing. Mk is going in a different direction storywise. A bad one in my opinion.Bad, bad, bad.

 

[Gouki]

If you want to run with my Beatles analogy, fine; sub-one is the Mark David Chapman of the Mortal Kombat fanbase.

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lol, yea it is apparent that u two dont care for each other and that he's on board with 187 Frosty's ass for keeps.

 

[sub-one]

I think it would be interesting to see an MK devoid of ninjas. they have gone overboard with them. is it mortal kombat or ninja kombat?

I would like to see an MK more focused on martial arts inspired characters. Tiger style, crane style, iron palm, iron body, krav maga,

pankration, aikido(segal style), jeet kun do/ wing chun(same thing really), weapon rounds/ sudden death.

(stages would contain two weapons of identical type, but depending on what form of martial arts the character practiced would determine how that character would use that weapon. staves, sword, kali or twin blades)

fatalities would be less based on magic and more based on the character's fighting style. crane would target the throat and eyes, tiger would

focus on ripping out the throat or tearing through flesh, pankration would focus on blunt force trauma crushing the larynx or crushing the

skull or rib cage, wing chun/ jeet kun do would focus on power blows to the solar plexus or frontal lobe via kick or punch, aikido would

focus on beaking limbs and vertebrae hyper extending joints and counters this style should be reserved for a larger character and offer a true grappler archetype.

when "finish him" appears there would be no "knock down, then immediately stand and there and wait to die" when the final blow was landed

the screen would enter a slow motion state at this point you would enter the motion to fatality them. If the character was defeated by an

air kick the defeated opponent would have to "picked up" via the block button then the fatality would be performed. if the opponent is felled

by a sweep you would be able to execute a "ground" fatality. pankration would use a downward elbow smash to the head of the victim

resulting in cerebral hemoraging(bleeding from the ears, nose and mouth) a second elbow with the opposite arm would be delivered

rupturing the back of the skull resulting in brain spewage.

They sould use "real" martial arts, not just "real martial art names" like in previous MKs. If approached properly it could easily contend and

"out do" games like Tekken, Virtua fighter and Doa. institute an eight-way run and interactive back grounds, not stage fatalities, but inter

active surroundings. Keep the gameplay grounded and less focused of gravity defying juggling. introduce a fighting system that has

"combo parrying" which means each character has the ability to interact with an attack string in real-time, opposed to just blocking and counter attacking, by entering the same input as the opponent ex: high punch with high punch low with low. a high punch can be trumped by a high kick or middle kick if timed right. Not the same as close combat, an actual "clash of attacks" giving it a more cinematic appearance. the one feature I would retain from the PS2 era was the block animations, which to me was probably the best part of those games and a nice little touch.

Characters would still have projectiles but they would be less prominent and used more cleverly.

the theme would be more focused on "brutal cinematic combat" truly incorporating the "mortal combat" aspect.

Visually it would be more realistic in terms of costumes and uniforms. Isolated warrior Monks would look more the part, ninjas would look like "real" ninjas, special forces characters would actually look like soldiers in both build and mannerisms. There still be elements of fantasy and no character would deviate so much from their original design that you wouldn't recognize them. Instead of blue and yellow ninjas. they would be primarily black with blue or gold accents.

My MK would be a top contender with any franchise on the market. Sadly it will never happen.

 

[sub-one]

Nope I'm not about killing sub off once and for all. I more about making the name Sub-zero a "title" and passing it on to someoe other than Kuai Liang or Bi han. Both of them have been killed and rather just ressurecting character over and over I think it would be better if they passed the mantle on to another person entirely.

Sub-zero should be a title that can be worn by male or female, black, white, asian or other. not just the same two guys. I didn't say it Had to be passed to Frost. i said reboot her character and make her an actual "female Sub-zero".

http://mortalkombat.wikia.com/wiki/Sub-Zero

In this link it suggests that Kuai and Han's father carried the title of sub-zero before either of his son's did. and he was the "third" to carry that code name.

Who says there is only two or three people from the cryomancer lineage in earthrealm? there could be lots but their abilities haven't awakened yet.

All I'm saying is stop being so conformist that only "these two guys" can carry the title of SZ.

 

[Gouki]

Oh I would definitely say a Sub-Zero fanboy. Im not denying it at all. I still want the best for Mk too because I love other characters as well, but Ive faced facts those other characters aren't going to get any spotlight.

My top 5 are Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang), Cyber Smoke (hate human smoke), Jade, Rain, and Noob Saibot (Bi-Han). That's why I argue for Bi-Han as being Noob though because I absolutely loved that twist in Deception. I think he makes an amazing bad guy.

You could say Raiden is number 6.

Out of those characters I know for sure that

Cyber Smoke is never getting spotlight again...ever. I think we have probably seen the last of him.

They have never done anything meaningful with Jade.

They have never done anything meaningful with Rain.

That leaves Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot. Im not a hipster who likes to root for the bad guy so Sub-Zero is my favorite through and through. Honestly I wish Noob was his rival instead of Scorpion. That would be much more compelling in my book.

Also I wont cheer for Raiden anymore because I feel his character became a complete dumbass in Mk9. Hell, Mk9's story ruined a good portion of my characters. I will say this about Smoke. He still did nothing as a human in Mk9. Just like I knew he would before mk9 was released. Being a cyborg was meant for him. Its all he had, and they took it away from him to ruin arguably one of the best character developments they had.

The only good part of Mk9 was hearing Kuai Liang say "You are right, we are not brothers." I couldn't even fully enjoy that though because he was a damn cyborg.

Sub-One is right about one thing. Mk is going in a different direction storywise. A bad one in my opinion.Bad, bad, bad.

MK is indeed going on some kinda path and with everyone dead pretty much, I too cant say its a good path...

 

[Gouki]

Nope I'm not about killing sub off once and for all. I more about making the name Sub-zero a "title" and passing it on to someoe other than Kuai Liang or Bi han. Both of them have been killed and rather just ressurecting character over and over I think it would be better if they passed the mantle on to another person entirely.

Sub-zero should be a title that can be worn by male or female, black, white, asian or other. not just the same two guys. I didn't say it Had to be passed to Frost. i said reboot her character and make her an actual "female Sub-zero".

http://mortalkombat.wikia.com/wiki/Sub-Zero

In this link it suggests that Kuai and Han's father carried the title of sub-zero before either of his son's did. and he was the "third" to carry that code name.

Who says there is only two or three people from the cryomancer lineage in earthrealm? there could be lots but their abilities haven't awakened yet.

All I'm saying is stop being so conformist that only "these two guys" can carry the title of SZ.

I agree with a 'new sub zero' if MK decides to get a new generation of fighters... but too many fans cant let go of the OGs...

im kinda one of them, but im also one who is open to change as well. I feel MK can move forward that way because it does not seem to be going anywhere 'NEW' to me... MK9 may have re arranged some things, but I aint seeing overall nothing new, IMO.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

I agree with a 'new sub zero' if MK decides to get a new generation of fighters... but too many fans cant let go of the OGs...

Because those are the characters we've been paying to see since the 90s.

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[Kobra]

Fire and Ice I would buy in a heartbeat, I am still waiting NRS. Hurry up!

 

[Gouki]

Because those are the characters we've been paying to see since the 90s.

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I dont pay money just to see my fav chars, I pay money for a good game with not only interesting chars, but a good story and good fighting gameplay.
If MK did not have scorp, id still get it. Im into MK for more than some ninjas and blood. The mythos keeps me in, the gameplay keeps me in, to me, they all hold the same weight.

If Scorp left, id still be alright. I was alright when Liu(my sec fav char) was absent in MKda, I was alright when scorp(my fav char) was not in MK3.

Im not an MKfan for the chars, Im an MKfan for entire entity that is Mortal Kombat, and to me Mortal Kombat is not just Scorp and Sub Zero and far from being about those two... some people have forgotten that.

 

[Gouki]

Fire and Ice I would buy in a heartbeat, I am still waiting NRS. Hurry up!

But if Fire and Ice was Scorpion and Subz new series and they were no longer in any MK games or perhaps just made appearances every so often like some of the less popular chars of MK, would you still buy MK games...?

 

[sub-one]

I dont pay money just to see my fav chars, I pay money for a good game with not only interesting chars, but a good story and good fighting gameplay.
If MK did not have scorp, id still get it. Im into MK for more than some ninjas and blood. The mythos keeps me in, the gameplay keeps me in, to me, they all hold the same weight.

If Scorp left, id still be alright. I was alright when Liu(my sec fav char) was absent in MKda, I was alright when scorp(my fav char) was not in MK3.

Im not an MKfan for the chars, Im an MKfan for entire entity that is Mortal Kombat, and to me Mortal Kombat is not just Scorp and Sub Zero and far from being about those two... some people have forgotten that.

So shinest the light of reason, bask in the radiance of open mindedness and. Through the gloom of conundrum rays of intelligence have emerged to chase away the shadows limited thinking.

You said everything I've been trying to say. glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[Gouki]

I see what you are saying(sub one) but I also see how hard it would be to do something like letting go of our MK Icons for 20 years.
But because I like MK as a whole and more than just for my fav chars, I would be willing to see it flourish alittle more and actually go somewhere NEW by putting our old icons to rest in one way or another to introduce new souls/a new generation... which is what MK is suppose to do anyway every 50 years.

The issue with that though as I pointed out earlier is, NRS cant seem to create a halfway decent new char to save their lives... nevermind a good sized roster of them...

And anyway, You don't see great kung lao of the last generation coming back to life... oh wait, does his reincarnation into present Lao count as coming back to life?

 

[BBBLP]

I'd be fine with my favorite characters dying off if it was done for the sake of a good story.
Like Gouki, I care for the entire mythos, not just one or two characters.

Games like Tekken I can't say the same. I've been playing Tekken since I was a kid, I've played every game to date and I plan on playing every game to come after. But if Harada ever started smoking crack and decided to kill off King & Armor King (who both ironically have stories very similar to the Sub Zero brothers) I wouldn't touch another installment until one or the other was brought back. If killing them off meant that every other characters' story flourished in ways that could blow a mind, I would still be against it because at the end of the day I'm a bigger King fan than I am a Tekken fan. And I think that's the problem with the MK fanbase, they favor their characters more than the series itself

 

[Commander]

I Do wonder something though...
If MK DID take out Scorp and Sub Zero from the main MK games from now on and instead made Scorp and Subz their OWN series (Fire and Ice, if u will)focusing on their story and expanding it further and such...

How many "MKfans" would still play MK absent Scorp and Subz due to them now having their own game series?(meaning more than 1 game).
How would MK sales look absent Scorp and Subz next to THEIR game series Fire and Ice?

I'd still buy MK and play it even if it didn't have Sub-Zero or Scorpion, because I'm always going to be an MK fan (first and foremost).
That being said, I sure as hell wouldn't pre-order it or buy it at the $60 price tag.
I'd just wait for it to go WAY down on sale, and get it then.

If Scorpion and Sub-Zero had their own Fire and Ice game, though, I would pre-order that, and probably play that game MORE than MK without Sub-Zero and Scorpion.
I've been dying to see if NRS would redo the cancelled Fire and Ice game for some time now.

I'd be fine with my favorite characters dying off if it was done for the sake of a good story.
Like Gouki, I care for the entire mythos, not just one or two characters.

Games like Tekken I can't say the same. I've been playing Tekken since I was a kid, I've played every game to date and I plan on playing every game to come after. But if Harada ever started smoking crack and decided to kill off King & Armor King (who both ironically have stories very similar to the Sub Zero brothers) I wouldn't touch another installment until one or the other was brought back. If killing them off meant that every other characters' story flourished in ways that could blow a mind, I would still be against it because at the end of the day I'm a bigger King fan than I am a Tekken fan. And I think that's the problem with the MK fanbase, they favor their characters more than the series itself

Why is it perfectly fine for you to be a King fan, more than a Tekken fan, but when it's the MK fanbase it's suddenly a "problem?"
If the MK fanbase wants Scorpion and Sub-Zero in, then why can't they be kept in.
It's pretty known by now that EVERYONE on the roster, aside from Scorpion and Sub-Zero, is replaceable (as Deception and Deadly Alliance proved).
The same goes for Ken and Ryu on SF, but somehow Ken and Ryu get a free pass and people don't b**** as much because they're Ken and Ryu.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

I'd still buy MK and play it even if it didn't have Sub-Zero or Scorpion, because I'm always going to be an MK fan (first and foremost).
That being said, I sure as hell wouldn't pre-order it or buy it at the $60 price tag.
I'd just wait for it to go WAY down on sale, and get it then.

If Scorpion and Sub-Zero had their own Fire and Ice game, though, I would pre-order that, and probably play that game MORE than MK without Sub-Zero and Scorpion.
I've been dying to see if NRS would redo the cancelled Fire and Ice game for some time now.






Why is it perfectly fine for you to be a King fan, more than a Tekken fan, but when it's the MK fanbase it's suddenly a "problem?"
If the MK fanbase wants Scorpion and Sub-Zero in, then why can't they be kept in.
It's pretty known by now that EVERYONE on the roster, aside from Scorpion and Sub-Zero, is replaceable (as Deception and Deadly Alliance proved).
The same goes for Ken and Ryu on SF, but somehow Ken and Ryu get a free pass and people don't b**** as much because they're Ken and Ryu.

Believe it or not, Capcom originally intended for ZERO returning characters in SF3. Every single person who beta tested told them straight up that they wouldn't spend a single quarter on a game carrying the Street Fighter name without Ryu and Ken.

Lesson learned that making a game without the star characters is economic suicide. I challenge you to find 3 million full price buyers who will buy MK without Sub-Zero and Scorpion. I'm sure the sales won't even crack 100,000...

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[sub-one]

All i'm saying is that from a "gameplay" presprctive Sub-zero is ALWAYS a new character. The only things that remain the same are as follows:

1.Blue uniform
2.Ice ball
3.Some kind of sliding move the takes the opponent off of their feet
4.since MK2 ground freeze
5.since MK3, Ice clone.

note: the spine-rip was not included in MK2 or 3. it returned in MK4.it wasn't in MKDA, MKD(it was scorpion's fatality) MKA gave it to everyone. Returned to Sub-zero in MK9.

Aside from that sub-zero's moves, combos, play style and appearance change from game to game. He has gone from ninja, to overall sporting scarred face, to mongolian-"Shredder".

He is always reimagined. If he is always going to be reimagined, what's the difference if it's another character portraying sub-zero?

the only thing that's really changin is Sub-zero's "real name"

So long as Sub-zero has the "trademark special moves" sub-zero will be sub-zero.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

All i'm saying is that from a "gameplay" presprctive Sub-zero is ALWAYS a new character. The only things that remain the same are as follows:

1.Blue uniform
2.Ice ball
3.Some kind of sliding move the takes the opponent off of their feet
4.since MK2 ground freeze
5.since MK3, Ice clone.

note: the spine-rip was not included in MK2 or 3. it returned in MK4.it wasn't in MKDA, MKD(it was scorpion's fatality) MKA gave it to everyone. Returned to Sub-zero in MK9.

Aside from that sub-zero's moves, combos, play style and appearance change from game to game. He has gone from ninja, to overall sporting scarred face, to mongolian-"Shredder".

He is always reimagined. If he is always going to be reimagined, what's the difference if it's another character portraying sub-zero?

the only thing that's really changin is Sub-zero's "real name"

So long as Sub-zero has the "trademark special moves" sub-zero will be sub-zero.

"Sub-Zero" is a registered trademark of Kuai Liang.

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[sub-one]

"Sub-Zero" is a registered trademark of Kuai Liang.

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Nope. He simply wears the name. Like i said, in the MK continuity and history, Subzero is a "title" that has changed hands "5" times.

Granted, he has been sub-zero in most MK games, but to be honest, the idea of a "good guy killer" makes no sense. If you are a trained killer that freezes and kills opponents how much of a good person are you??

I preferred Bi-Han for the simple fact that it is more fitting for an assassin to be cold harted and unflinching, than a warm fuzzy "do-gooder". It takes away from his badassness.

I honestly lost interest in him once Kuai Liang took over the role and Scorpion became his "protector" to atone for the death of his brother. That moment in MK took all credence from Sub-zero2. It made him appear weak. In MkDA he is duped by frost and with all of his NEW powers he still does nothing, In MKD he only fights tarkatans in the Living forest. In MKA he dies with everyone else.

If they decide to Bring Bi-Han back, which I doubt, I think it will restore some of his lost credibility. Plus Seeing as how in MKX they will be facing Quanchi and Shinnock, Bi-han's former enemies, it would make more sense to see him exact his revenge against The individuals responsible for his death than to bring Kuai Liang into the picture to Fight beings he knows nothing about.

If Bi-Han returns Sub-zero will be more of a key character because he has fought and defeated Quanchi in the past. As well as has some knowledge of the netherrealm.