Sub-Zero

[sub-one]

The majority of fans pay to see the STARS! No stars = no sales! How is this not common sense?

You know what?! Go play another game if you want "fresh characters"!

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Mortal kombat is not a Metal Band bud, I think you frequently confuse the two. Sub-zero is a fictional character. Ya know, like the easter bunny, the tooth fairy and Jesus.

Sub-zero has been battered and beat up for the entirety of MK9 . I foresaw the smear campaign against sub-zero long before the game even hit stores. If he was so "iconic" he wouldn't have been down-played as much as he was.

I will say this again and if you refute it you are simply avoiding a glaring fact: Scorpion is MK's Icon, not Scorpion "and" Sub-zero. That has been evident through the entire marketing campaign. Sub-zero was only present to show off Scorpion's superiority. Sub-zero is not as important as people want him to be, unfortunately. Like I said previously, Sub-zero is my favorite character, but that doesn't change the fact that he is being phased out to make way for someone else.

If he comes back, good. If he doesn't I'm not worried about it. Mortal kombat will still be Mortal kombat even if he isn't in it. What you fail to realize is that MK's success is not contingent upon sub-zero's return.

NRS is concerned with raking in "NEW" fans, not old fans. This most recent MK was basically a "swan song" to the MK's of old and starting over fresh. Change is inevitable. Castlevania started over from scratch and was awesome!! MK can do the same, MK SHOULD do the same.

Like a few of you said, money talks. Well they are looking for "new" money now and the majority of that money is being paid for Scorpion, NOT Sub-zero. Compared to Scorpion Subzero was a very lack luster character. his fighing style was vapid and slow, his moves weren't flashy or memorable and neither were his fatalities or X-ray. Sub-zero will be replaced in the Next MK game Plain and simple. Read the signs. Can you people really be so brain dead as to assume that he's coming back just because a couple people like sub-zero? Its like seeing a huge, black cumulonimbus cloud coming right at you and still insist it's gonna be 80 and sunny because you want it to be.

Ya know what you haven't taken into consideration? Curiosity. people will buy games based on curiosity. Most people don't know any specifics of MK, yet that is the largest group of casual gamers out there. When MKX comes out most casual game "buyers" will associate MK with "Scorpion" not Subzero. When I hear random people mention MK they always refer to SCORPION not Sub-zero. I don't care what online polls show. MK is now all about establishing Scorpion as the ICON not both.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

@sub-one: if Sub-Zero is not an icon, then why was his original fatality cited as THE reason for the creation of the ESRB?

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[sub-one]

@sub-one: if Sub-Zero is not an icon, then why was his original fatality cited as THE reason for the creation of the ESRB?

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the "fatality" was iconic. not sub-zero. Jesus guy. you always want to debate but have no legs to stand on. you argue just for the sake of arguing and end up being wron 98% of the time.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

the "fatality" was iconic. not sub-zero. Jesus guy. you always want to debate but have no legs to stand on. you argue just for the sake of arguing and end up being wron 98% of the time.

But that fatality is still linked with Sub-Zero.

And I do have legs to stand on; it's called common sense, which you apparently lack.

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[Subz 711]

the "fatality" was iconic. not sub-zero. Jesus guy. you always want to debate but have no legs to stand on. you argue just for the sake of arguing and end up being wron 98% of the time.

You can look up Sub-Zero's popularity anywhere dude. I agree in saying that they are trying to make Scorpion some God, but honestly what does he have without Sub-Zero? Not a leg to stand on thats what. If Sub-Zero wasn't there for him to beat up then he would have no rival. Every huge character has a huge rival. Batman - Joker. Spiderman - Green Goblin. Superman - lex author. Sub-zero is that to Scorpion.

Honestly I think you're wrong too. All of this shoving Scorpion down our throats is going to backfire. Im sick of the motherf***er. He is ruining Mk for me because I felt he always leaned more towards the evil side. Then he went anti-hero. Now he's just full fledged hero how they are marketing him.

Also there's a flaw in your judgment with saying change is good. Change may be good for a lot of things, but Mk has already tried change. Too much of it in fact. You know what it did? It nearly bankrupt them with characters like Frost and Jarek. So take that noise elsewhere.

Small changes are good, but you wanna piss off half or over half of your fanbase? Leave out Sub-Zero. I won't buy the game. I'm just one person. Imagine the countless others out there with the same feelings.

Scorpion, Sub-Zero, and Raiden have all earned a spot in every Mk. Hell , why are you guys arguing this? Boon himself said in an interview a long time ago that BOTH Scorpion and Sub-Zero will be in every Mk game. It's a fact.

It may not be Kuai Liang, it may not be Bi-Han, but he will be there.

 

[sub-one]

But that fatality is still linked with Sub-Zero.

And I do have legs to stand on; it's called common sense, which you apparently lack.

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If you do indeed have common sense like you stated. You have never exercised it on TRMK. I have exercised nothing but common sense for the simple fact that all i post is information based on the words of developers or valid arguments that based upon observation, not opinion, or Fanfiction or fandom or just for the sake of continuing an argument because i can't let it go. You however have done all of these things on mulitiple occasions.

 

[sub-one]

You can look up Sub-Zero's popularity anywhere dude. I agree in saying that they are trying to make Scorpion some God, but honestly what does he have without Sub-Zero? Not a leg to stand on thats what. If Sub-Zero wasn't there for him to beat up then he would have no rival. Every huge character has a huge rival. Batman - Joker. Spiderman - Green Goblin. Superman - lex author. Sub-zero is that to Scorpion.

Honestly I think you're wrong too. All of this shoving Scorpion down our throats is going to backfire. Im sick of the motherf***er. He is ruining Mk for me because I felt he always leaned more towards the evil side. Then he went anti-hero. Now he's just full fledged hero how they are marketing him.

Also there's a flaw in your judgment with saying change is good. Change may be good for a lot of things, but Mk has already tried change. Too much of it in fact. You know what it did? It nearly bankrupt them with characters like Frost and Jarek. So take that noise elsewhere.

Small changes are good, but you wanna piss off half or over half of your fanbase? Leave out Sub-Zero. I won't buy the game. I'm just one person. Imagine the countless others out there with the same feelings.

Scorpion, Sub-Zero, and Raiden have all earned a spot in every Mk. Hell , why are you guys arguing this? Boon himself said in an interview a long time ago that BOTH Scorpion and Sub-Zero will be in every Mk game. It's a fact.

It may not be Kuai Liang, it may not be Bi-Han, but he will be there.

subzero is no longer a rival. sub-zero is dead. MK9 established Scorpion's superiority and showed that scorpion was far more important that Sub-zero. Change IS good, Now they have to worry about WB's reputation as well as their own if they want to stay in business. They will have make choices that innovate, refine and evolve the franchise. Don't forget Enter: the Dragon is also a warner bros. property. Enter: the Dragon was (obviously) one of the major inspirations for MK. Now that they are under the same roof they will have access to making it closer to the source material and less of a parody.

At least thats the route they should persue. Make it more of a serious game with less comedic tones. MK9 was so campy it was ridiculous.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

Sub-Zero isn't dead until Sub-Zero says so himself!

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[Subz 711]

subzero is no longer a rival. sub-zero is dead. MK9 established Scorpion's superiority and showed that scorpion was far more important that Sub-zero. Change IS good, Now they have to worry about WB's reputation as well as their own if they want to stay in business. They will have make choices that innovate, refine and evolve the franchise. Don't forget Enter: the Dragon is also a warner bros. property. Enter: the Dragon was (obviously) one of the major inspirations for MK. Now that they are under the same roof they will have access to making it closer to the source material and less of a parody.

At least thats the route they should persue. Make it more of a serious game with less comedic tones. MK9 was so campy it was ridiculous.

Okay, done arguing with you. Its no use. Sub-Zero most certainly is not dead, storywise maybe, but not to the franchise. You're trying to get a rise out of people. It worked with some. Bravo, your duty is accomplished.

All of this crap you post is your opinion, certainly not the opinion of the majority.

Guess who was still there, getting his ass beat, in Scorpion's intro in Injustice?

I dont know it was a blue ninja looking guy. Could it be? No, that wasn't Sub-Zero was it? Oh and jazzwares admitted Sub-Zero was there best selling figure. It's little stuff like that which shows Sub-Zero isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Hell find that poll in the Mk general discussion thread. Who's the second most popular character? Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang to be exact). Sub-Zero isn't dying. If he does well then Mk will be done. Sorry, scorpion can't carry Mk on his own, and I will be one of the fans who will let them know that.

 

[sub-one]

Okay, done arguing with you. Its no use. Sub-Zero most certainly is not dead, storywise maybe, but not to the franchise. You're trying to get a rise out of people. It worked with some. Bravo, your duty is accomplished.

All of this crap you post is your opinion, certainly not the opinion of the majority.

Guess who was still there, getting his ass beat, in Scorpion's intro in Injustice?

I dont know it was a blue ninja looking guy. Could it be? No, that wasn't Sub-Zero was it? Oh and jazzwares admitted Sub-Zero was there best selling figure. It's little stuff like that which shows Sub-Zero isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Hell find that poll in the Mk general discussion thread. Who's the second most popular character? Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang to be exact). Sub-Zero isn't dying. If he does well then Mk will be done. Sorry, scorpion can't carry Mk on his own, and I will be one of the fans who will let them know that.

you're entitled to your opinion. The fact remains, sub-zero needs to be replaced. Preferably by a female successor.

 

[Kobra]

Mortal Kombat without Scorpion or Sub-Zero is like not having a burger without the cheese, it just doesn't work.

 

[sub-one]

Mortal Kombat without Scorpion or Sub-Zero is like not having a burger without the cheese, it just doesn't work.

Like "not" having a burger without the cheese?? Not sure i follow.

Plus you don't need "cheese" to have a burger, it's just a hamburger then, which isn't bad so long as you season it with the right ingredients. If you do it right it can actually be BETTER than a cheeseburger.

negated and inert, thusly it is dismissed. Your opinion is respected, but not shared. that goes for the rest of you as well.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

MK without Scorpion and Sub-Zero is like:

The Beatles without Lennon and McCartney
The New York Yankees without the Pinstripes
Batman without his utility belt
Football without a quarterback

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[Gouki]

Most People flock to MK because of the following: Blood, Fatalities, Ninjas(specifically Scorpion and Sub Zero). That is a fact well known.
A sad sight, tbh, but it's what sells MK.

Im all for new chars and change in MK because im honestly tired of those two getting the spotlight because they are really nothing but a side item to the main course of things.

But fans are too hooked on those two that if they were to be absent from a game THESE days, the MKfandom would freak, and that is something NRS cannot afford.

In my personal opinion, I think NRS SHOULD take a chance at letting those two go among other iconic MK chars in favor of new chars but business wise, that would be FATAL and I do understand that...but sometimes u have to take risks. Not to mention that MK has not really produced any good new chars since MK4 with a handful of exceptions...if that many.

I Do wonder something though...
If MK DID take out Scorp and Sub Zero from the main MK games from now on and instead made Scorp and Subz their OWN series (Fire and Ice, if u will)focusing on their story and expanding it further and such...

How many "MKfans" would still play MK absent Scorp and Subz due to them now having their own game series?(meaning more than 1 game).
How would MK sales look absent Scorp and Subz next to THEIR game series Fire and Ice?

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

Most People flock to MK because of the following: Blood, Fatalities, Ninjas(specifically Scorpion and Sub Zero). That is a fact well known.
A sad sight, tbh, but it's what sells MK.

Im all for new chars and change in MK because im honestly tired of those two getting the spotlight because they are really nothing but a side item to the main course of things.

But fans are too hooked on those two that if they were to be absent from a game THESE days, the MKfandom would freak, and that is something NRS cannot afford.

In my personal opinion, I think NRS SHOULD take a chance at letting those two go among other iconic MK chars in favor of new chars but business wise, that would be FATAL and I do understand that...but sometimes u have to take risks. Not to mention that MK has not really produced any good new chars since MK4 with a handful of exceptions...if that many.

I Do wonder something though...
If MK DID take out Scorp and Sub Zero from the main MK games from now on and instead made Scorp and Subz their OWN series (Fire and Ice, if u will)focusing on their story and expanding it further and such...

How many "MKfans" would still play MK absent Scorp and Subz due to them now having their own game series?(meaning more than 1 game).
How would MK sales look absent Scorp and Subz next to THEIR game series Fire and Ice?

If you take Scorpion and Sub-Zero out, then it's either Mortal Kombat Lite, Scab MK, or not Mortal Kombat at all.

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[Gouki]

MK without Scorpion and Sub-Zero is like:

The Beatles without Lennon and McCartney
The New York Yankees without the Pinstripes
Batman without his utility belt
Football without a quarterback

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What about the Beatles without John and George...? Is it still the Beatles?

 

[Gouki]

If you take Scorpion and Sub-Zero out, then it's either Mortal Kombat Lite, Scab MK, or not Mortal Kombat at all.

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No, Mortal Kombat is Mortal Kombat.

Would you play Mortal Kombat(without Sub and Scorp) or Play Sub and Scorp's new game series "Fire and Ice"?
OR how bout Mortal Kombat with SubZero and Scorp but absent the classic chars who have now been replaced by all new chars...

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

What about the Beatles without John and George...? Is it still the Beatles?

You mean Ringo?

McCartney and Lennon wrote all the songs, not Harrison and Starr. Without Paul and John, there is no songwriting, and thus, no songs.

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[Gouki]

You mean Ringo?

McCartney and Lennon wrote all the songs, not Harrison and Starr. Without Paul and John, there is no songwriting, and thus, no songs.

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No, I mean how it is now, Paul and Ringo(the only ones left) and two other clowns...

Other people write songs for other artists... its not like if those two aren't writing, there would be no songs...
Now if you mean no 'HITS', well, no one can know for sure...

 

[Subz 711]

No, Mortal Kombat is Mortal Kombat.

Would you play Mortal Kombat(without Sub and Scorp) or Play Sub and Scorp's new game series "Fire and Ice"?
OR how bout Mortal Kombat with SubZero and Scorp but absent the classic chars who have now been replaced by all new chars...

OMG! You just really made me think about it and honestly if they started their own action/adventure series with those 2 then honestly I might not play Mk. I feel horrible saying that.

Ive said it before though that if Sub-Zero(Kuai Liang) had his own series I would probably leave for that. I stay with it because Subz is my favorite character in any medium. He's batman, but better (actually has powers). Ice powers at that which is my favorite element. However since I cant see him outside of Mk I want to see him in MK.

I would play an Mk game with all new characters minus Raiden, Sub-Zero, and Scorpion. I feel those 3 are mainstays. Actually add Noob Saibot and Shang Tsung. Then mold every new character around them.