Sub-Zero
- Thread starter Jade
- Start date
sub-one
New member
Ryu and Ken are THE fighting game icons. Every fighting game out there is is inspired by these two's rivalry.
Plus No one dies in street fighter. People die all the time in MK.
Commander
Well-known member
Here.
You say that the problem with the MK fanbase is that they prefer certain characters over the series itself, yet you do the SAME thing with King and Tekken.
Tarkatan Trash
Active member
You are aware that anything and everything you say can and will be used against you at any time on these forums...
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Commander
Well-known member
It sounded like you tried to justify it, when you said:
I don't see how that's a problem, considering that we're just talking about the 2 most iconic characters in ALL of Mortal Kombat here, and not individual favorites on the whole roster that the fanbase has.
I've heard a lot of people say how they want _________ or _________ character back for MK10, but that's not the topic at hand.
You don't just kill off Donatello and Leonardo, and just replace those 2 going on with the Ninja Turtles, just the same way that you don't just kill off 1 of the 2 most iconic characters in ALL of Mortal Kombat, and go on as if nothing happened.
sub-one
New member
Ummm it would be "Raph" and Leo actually. nobody likes don or mike. "Raph" and Leo bub.
Commander
Well-known member
:laugh:
Well, you get the point.
Using that same comparison, you don't just kill off 1 of the 2 most iconic characters in ALL of Mortal Kombat, and go on as if nothing happened.
To quote Tarkatan Trash:
Tarkatan Trash said:
BBBLP
Robot Rock
Why not though? Sub Zero was replaced in MKII. Eddie Brock was replaced with Flash Thompson. Peter Parker was replaced by Otto in Superior Spider-Man.
Icons CAN be successfully replaced. Are you saying that Scorpion and Sub Zero have stories so iron clad and well written that they could never be replaced?
Icons CAN be successfully replaced. Are you saying that Scorpion and Sub Zero have stories so iron clad and well written that they could never be replaced?
Commander
Well-known member
Eddie Brock / Flash Thompson was a HORRIBLE comparison, for me.
Flash Thompson single-handedly ruined Venom for me (my favorite character in all of Marvel) with that stupid Agent Venom and CIA Venom shit.
If I want a goody-2-shoes in a Spider costume, I'll just watch Spider-Man.
Bi-Han was replaced by Kuai-Liang (as he should have been), and as much as I hated CSZ, they could have had a pretty good story going on with him if he didn't get killed off by a punch, a knee and an upper-cut to the face, by the 1,000 year old female (Sindel) on steroids.
Now we have NO Sub-Zero.
In all MK history, there has only been 3 people with cyromancer powers; Bi-Han, Kuai-Liang and Frost.
I have NO problem with NRS re-envisioning Frost and giving her a remake, like they gave Kenshi a remake in MK9.
I just don't want another Sub-Zero clone.
Sub-Zero is Sub-Zero, and that's it.
Ice Ball, Ice Slide and Ground Freeze / Ice Puddle are iconic to Sub-Zero.
That's like having a female / other Scorpion with his same Spear, Teleport and Hell Fire moves as Scorpion.
Look at all the creative ways that NRS has use fire powers over the years.
There's so much more that can be done with ice powers too, rather than recycling the same moves and giving it to another character.
Flash Thompson single-handedly ruined Venom for me (my favorite character in all of Marvel) with that stupid Agent Venom and CIA Venom shit.
If I want a goody-2-shoes in a Spider costume, I'll just watch Spider-Man.
Bi-Han was replaced by Kuai-Liang (as he should have been), and as much as I hated CSZ, they could have had a pretty good story going on with him if he didn't get killed off by a punch, a knee and an upper-cut to the face, by the 1,000 year old female (Sindel) on steroids.
Now we have NO Sub-Zero.
In all MK history, there has only been 3 people with cyromancer powers; Bi-Han, Kuai-Liang and Frost.
I have NO problem with NRS re-envisioning Frost and giving her a remake, like they gave Kenshi a remake in MK9.
I just don't want another Sub-Zero clone.
Sub-Zero is Sub-Zero, and that's it.
Ice Ball, Ice Slide and Ground Freeze / Ice Puddle are iconic to Sub-Zero.
That's like having a female / other Scorpion with his same Spear, Teleport and Hell Fire moves as Scorpion.
Look at all the creative ways that NRS has use fire powers over the years.
There's so much more that can be done with ice powers too, rather than recycling the same moves and giving it to another character.
BBBLP
Robot Rock
And thus you demonstrate the biggest problem with Mortal Kombat.
Special moves define characters. This is without a doubt the largest hinderance to NRS when making new characters. The fact that they can make somebody like Frost; who looks differently, sounds differently, plays differently, has different animations and has a different story, and yet people like you still call her a Sub Zero clone. You are the reason why we had a dude in Deception who shot fire shaped triangles out of his foot and why Shujinko was replaced as the main character, by somebody who had "their own moves" that were just generic fireballs and fire punches.
Street Fighter has a WEALTH of successful, well known and well loved Shotos. Tekken has multiple characters who can Wind God Fist, but nobody complains there.
It's hardly our fault as the MK fanbase. We were spoiled from the beginning with unique characters, but it couldn't last forever. Sure you and I could come up with new moves for new characters, but you and I aren't apart of NRS
Special moves define characters. This is without a doubt the largest hinderance to NRS when making new characters. The fact that they can make somebody like Frost; who looks differently, sounds differently, plays differently, has different animations and has a different story, and yet people like you still call her a Sub Zero clone. You are the reason why we had a dude in Deception who shot fire shaped triangles out of his foot and why Shujinko was replaced as the main character, by somebody who had "their own moves" that were just generic fireballs and fire punches.
Street Fighter has a WEALTH of successful, well known and well loved Shotos. Tekken has multiple characters who can Wind God Fist, but nobody complains there.
It's hardly our fault as the MK fanbase. We were spoiled from the beginning with unique characters, but it couldn't last forever. Sure you and I could come up with new moves for new characters, but you and I aren't apart of NRS
sub-one
New member
the only probem I have with this statement is that they DID kill him off. Most likely we'll get cyber sub-zero in MKX which will suck!
I say leave Kuai Liang a robot and bring back Bi-Han as Sub-zero, he needs to have a final showdown with Quanchi.
Noob was most likely purified by the soulnado and will return to his mortal form, find a way to revert Kuai-Liang back to human form and pass the title on officially.
Gouki
New member
TRUE DAT!!
I NEVER want to see Flash as Venom EVER again!!
Eddie Brock will ALWAYS be Venom!!!
Tarkatan Trash
Active member
Anyone other than Kuai Liang as Sub-Zero should be called Scab-Zero.
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sub-one
New member
kuai liang is a sissy punk.
Bi-han was the only Sub-zero worth anything. kuai Liang will never have his own game so there it is. Bi-han superior, Kuai Liang inferior.
sub-one
New member
I doubt it will happen. they put the kibosh on it before.
How you gonna hang around with the guy that killed your brother? Proof again that Kuai is a punk. he probably smokes scorpion flaming pole.
and yes I know the story. I don't care, If Kuai was a true warrior he would have killed scorpion Like Bi-han did. Kuai liang is a soft hearted pussy and not fit to carry on the legacy of his clan or his brother, he is a disgrace to the Lin kuei and his family. Even scorpion had enough balls to finish the job. Kuai liang is not fit to be sub-zero he's too warm and fuzzy to carry the name sub-zero. Just Like Bi Han told him.
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Subz 711
New member
Seriously what did Bi-Han do? What really did he do that makes him so godlike? He was star of a game nobody cares about. Im sorry, but thats truth. Even half the fanbase doesn't like it. I dont care if he defeated gods. Mk9 clearly showed that Kuai Liang was always meant to be as strong as Bi-Han. Who lost to Scorpion in the first tournament and died? Bi-Han. Who beat him in Shao Kahn's tournament? Kuai Liang. They're equals. Im tired of people putting Bi-Han on a pedestal when he doesn't deserve it AT ALL.
And also here's my problem with your whole Sub-Zero is multiple people theory. That is true, but if you're going to grow a character and develop them it needs to be one person.
Could you imagine if they just started killing every Sub-Zero and started bringing in a new one every game? His character would never grow at all. There would be no individual accomplishments for him. He would essentially be just a character in a fighting gsme. Throw any development he could receive out the window.
There's no sense in having yet ANOTHER Sub-Zero come in at this point. Now, if they shot years into the future I would be fine with that. That's not the case though. They killed two Sub-Zero's in one game. For this timeline 3 is a bit excessive, and gets confusing at that. Also Nobody likes Frost, and that would universally piss people off so stop throwing in her name too.
sub-one
New member
He did ALOT more than Kuai Liang. He was so weak he became the leader of a clan, got a magic medallion and power enhancing armor and still didn't accomplish shit. Hell he couldn't even over power hotaru and he has a Girls name!!! pffffftttt.
The only thing Kuai liang accomplished was doing a good impression of shredder from TMNT and making sub-zero a filler character and all around softy. He didn't even kill frost when she betrayed him! he was a sucker and prime target for mutiny. The best thing they ever did to him was make him a robot.
They grew him and developed him enough and he was still a second rate character.
Scorpion only won because they were in the netherrealm and his powers are amplified there. Bi-Han would have mopped the floor with him had they fought in earthrealm. Like he did when he defeated him after he came back from the dead in MKSZM!
And you answered your own question regarding why BI han was superior, He defeated GODS. Kuai Liang has a hard time fighting tarkatans WITH all his power ups. Pfffffftttttt. weak ass loser.
And ya know what? You can't compare Scorpion and Sub-zero to Ryu and Ken because these two sissies aren't even rival anymore!! They're buddies now that fight for truth, love and kittens!
The ONLY Rivalry was between Bi han and Hanzo. Not "Cry liang"
P.S. FROST!!!!
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Subz 711
New member
Im not even going to lie and act like I finished that crappy game of mythologies, and most people didnt Im sure.
So lets look at the Mk history of both Kuai Liang and Bi-han.
Okay so everything you said about Kuai Liang right right Im hearing you. Pussy Ive heard it before.
Bi-Han's history in actual Mk games. Gets killed by Scorpion. The End.
As far as actual Mk story accomplishments Bi-han has none. Kuai Liang was his successor and has been for 8 games now. You dont like Kuai Liang because he actually has a brain and thinks with his own mind.
Bi-han was just a slave to a clan who didnt give a shit about him. Then he was killed by Scorpion. That's all he is in my book.