Who do you want for Kombat Pack 3?

theincubuslord said:
Cyber Sub-Zero still IS canon. He wasn't retconned. It still happened in the current canon timeline, however, Quan Chi just found a way to return Sub-Zero to his human form, as he was more use to him as such.

Have you read the comics?
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Yes, I have read the comics.

Quan Chi turning him human and discarding the Cyber body was their way of retconning Cyber Sub-Zero.
They retconned him likely in favor of human Sub-Zero.
The probably decided that people preferred human Sub-Zero, so this was their way of continuing the human Sub-Zero continuity, and continuing with his old timeline story of being the Lin Kuei Grandmaster again.
They retconned what was done with Cyber Sub in MK9, and decided to go back with human Sub for MKX.
 
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That wasn't a retcon. Csz still exists within the timeline, he can still be mentioned within context. Reptile transforming into Onaga didn't retcon Reptile from the timeline
 
The difference is that Reptile continued to exist.
Quan Chi is their scapegoat / retcon medium.
Given that he's a necromancer, it's easy for them to just say "we didn't like this, so Quan Chi can change him back."
Cyber Sub-Zero ceased to exist the minute that Quan Chi turned Kuai-Liang back human and discarded the cybernetic body.
He no longer exists.
What was once Cyber Sub-Zero in MK9 is now just human Sub-Zero, once again, in MKX.
 
Commander said:
Yes, I have read the comics.

Quan Chi turning him human and discarding the Cyber body was their way of retconning Cyber Sub-Zero.
They retconned him likely in favor of human Sub-Zero.
The probably decided that people preferred human Sub-Zero, so this was their way of continuing the human Sub-Zero continuity, and continuing with his old timeline story of being the Lin Kuei Grandmaster again.
They retconned what was done with Cyber Sub in MK9, and decided to go back with human Sub for MKX.
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That's not what a retcon is though...
A retcon is when they take something that has happened, erases it from the timeline and then place in something else. Sub-Zero turning cyborg hasn't been erased. It still happened. He was just later changed back.
 
Exactly. Just because Jax came back to life in MKX doesn't mean he never died.
Same applies for Sub-Zero and his time as a cyborg
 
theincubuslord said:
That's not what a retcon is though...
A retcon is when they take something that has happened, erases it from the timeline and then place in something else. Sub-Zero turning cyborg hasn't been erased. It still happened. He was just later changed back.
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How do you know that turning him back human wasn't their way of retconning MK9 Cyber Sub-Zero?
How do you know that it wasn't NRS way of saying "we made a mistake" and decided to change him back?
I'm not saying that's what they DID do, but to me it seems like turning him back huamn was their way of retconning him to being human Sub-Zero once again.
Just my opinion, though.
Retconning also is to later revise an established element of a fictional story.
In the old timeline he was the Grandmaster of the Lin Kuei and wasn't turned cyber, so, in this this timeline (MKX) they (imo) turned him back human so that he could destroy the Tekunin and once again become Grandmaster.


BBBLP said:
Exactly. Just because Jax came back to life in MKX doesn't mean he never died.
Same applies for Sub-Zero and his time as a cyborg
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Jax is a terrible comparison because Jax didn't cease to exist once Jax became human again.
Cyber Sub-Zero did cease to exist, as now Kuai-Liang is human once again.

A perfect comparison is Scorpion.
When he became the hell wraith known as Scorpion, Hanzo (the human being) ceased to exist because he was now the Scorpion wraith.
He regained his humanity and became Hanzo once again in MKX, once he was freed from Quan Chi's spell.
 
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Commander said:
How do you know that turning him back human wasn't their way of retconning MK9 Cyber Sub-Zero?
How do you know that it wasn't NRS way of saying "we made a mistake" and decided to change him back?
I'm not saying that's what they DID do, but to me it seems like turning him back huamn was their way of retconning him to being human Sub-Zero once again.
Just my opinion, though.
Retconning also is to later revise an established element of a fictional story.
In the old timeline he was the Grandmaster of the Lin Kuei and wasn't turned cyber, so, in this this timeline (MKX) they (imo) turned him back human so that he could destroy the Tekunin and once again become Grandmaster.
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Again, because that's not how retcons work. Sure, NRS might have thought it was a mistake, but they made a CANON explanation to how he changed back. They didn't retcon it.
 
Well, whatever you want to call it, CYBER Sub-Zero ceased to exist, as of the MKX comics.
What exists now, in regards to Kuai-Liang, is only human Sub-Zero.
Anything that they do with Cyber Sub-Zero from now on (aka via Triborg) is just a clone of something that no longer exists.
The same goes with cyber Smoke in this new timeline.
Via Triborg, he's just a clone of something that doesn't exist in MKX.

Going back, I don't think they'll use Triborg going on forward because he's just that, a clone of characters that already exist or existed at 1 point, and (for the most part) those other characters can just be brought back.
 
BBBLP said:
Cyber Sub-Zero still exists in the timeline though. The canon timeline.
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He does not currently exist in MKX, though.
That's waht I'm getting at.
In order for something to exist, it would have to be alive.
What is alive now, as of MKX, is human Sub-Zero.
What is part of Triborg is just a clone / memory of something that once existed, but ceases to currently exist.
 
If he cease to exist, then how come Kuai still fvcking mentions about being a cyborg in his intros? He blatantly explains that he got changed through Quan Chi's sorcery.

But because he's now a human again, are we supposed to completely ignore that tiny part of the story, despite the character himself still talks about it?
 
theincubuslord said:
However, he DID exist in the canon timeline. And that's the difference.
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DID exist, as in no longer exists in MKX? Yes.
Kuai still exists, but the cyborg that was Cyber Sub-Zero no longer does exist.
Unless NRS turns Kuai into a cyborg again, Cyber Sub-Zero ceases to currently exist.

As for cyber Smoke, he does not exist at all, in this timeline, AND he's not canon.
Therefore, if any part of Triborg is not canon, then I don't consider him to be canon.
This is the very reason why I don't take any of the individual character ladder endings to be true or false until the next game comes out.
If even 1 part of it is considered to be false, then (as far as I am concerned) the whole thing cannot be taken for its truth.
 
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Commander said:
DID exist, as in no longer exists in MKX? Yes.
Kuai still exists, but the cyborg that was Cyber Sub-Zero no longer does exist.
Unless NRS turns Kuai into a cyborg again, Cyber Sub-Zero ceases to currently exist.
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As long you realize that him becoming cyborg is indeed still a canon thing and hasn't been retconned.
That's all I'm trying to point out.
 
theincubuslord said:
As long you realize that him becoming cyborg is indeed still a canon thing and hasn't been retconned.
That's all I'm trying to point out.
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Fine.
I'll concede and give you that (as far as retconning is concerned), but Cyber Sub-Zero is still non-existent as of the MKX comics which take place between MK9 and MKX (the game).
The point that I want you to realize is that Kuai continually exists, but the cyborg no longer does.
Cyber Smoke is still NOT canon in this new timeline, though (which has not been addressed and skipped right over, btw), and therefore if any part of it is non-canon, then the whole thing (Triborg) cannot be taken for its truth.
 
Commander said:
Fine.
I'll concede and give you that (as far as retconning is concerned), but Cyber Sub-Zero is still non-existent as of the MKX comics which take place between MK9 and MKX (the game).
The point that I want you to realize is that Kuai continually exists, but the cyborg no longer does.
Cyber Smoke is still NOT canon in this new timeline, though (which has not been addressed and skipped right over, btw), and therefore if any part of it is non-canon, then the whole thing (Triborg) cannot be taken for its truth.
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All that I agree with. <3
 
There's a Tweet from John Vogel that I found to be interesting, and I didn't yet see it posted on this thread or any other thread.
Perhaps it was posted before elsewhere and I skipped over it, dunno.......

https://twitter.com/K0MB4T/status/757740045751037952

@KelseyKahnum said:
@K0MB4T is Sareena gonna be in MKX cuz i dont want her
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Vogel's reply:
@K0MB4T said:
You could just... Not PLAY her... *shrug*
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Don't know if he's serious or not, much like Ed, but I found it interesting, nonetheless.
 
Commander said:
There's a Tweet from John Vogel that I found to be interesting, and I didn't yet see it posted on this thread or any other thread.
Perhaps it was posted before elsewhere and I skipped over it, dunno.......

https://twitter.com/K0MB4T/status/757740045751037952




Vogel's reply:


Don't know if he's serious or not, much like Ed, but I found it interesting, nonetheless.
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Yes I have seen it and some of the youtube gamers has talked about it as well. I would be happy if she is a DLC character. Her design is fantastic in my opinion.
 
I'm also interested in seeing how they'd redesign her not only physically but gameplay-wise, as well.
Her intro lines between Quan Chi, Sub-Zero and Shinnok could be interesting.
 
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