Super Smash Bros

Kickinwing420 said:
yeah cuz i prefer a more original character

Example: Paper Mario.
Come on now....That's more unique then Dr Mario
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Their moves are DIFFERENT.. this isn't even an opinion matter. you can't be good with Falcon and automatically be good with Ganon. What you're complaining about is something as small as "they look kind of the same"


IMO I'm down for clones when they are changed up. We get MORE characters with more variations.

If you like Mortal Kombat X variations, this is no different. Doc is a variation of regular mario. They play differently, but it's the same character.

I'm tired of people ing about clones, because you're hurting the game from my perspective where I get more fighting styles, You just want them to "look aesthetically different enough" to appease your false sense of diversity.

Guess what? clone characters are SUPER easy to make, actually don't play alike at all. We get more characters this way because not as much development time is being wasted.

You can state what you want, but don't act like things you say aren't up for criticism man.
 
In other news,

Spoiler:

the DLC part of that leak was verified false, Video evidence of gameplay featuring baby bowser and Shulk were confirmed/stopped by Nintendo of America which gives that original picture leak more credit.

However it was also apparently highly speculated we're missing characters on the roster because of the way they are placed/ some modes being incomplete which hints at possibly unlockable characters weren't unlocked for that leaked image.
 
Exactly. The inclusion of Doc didn't affect the inclusion (or lack thereof) of Paper Mario.
Clones are very easy to make and require much less effort than a full blown new comer.

Clone characters are pretty much extra icing.
 
Critical-Limit said:
Their moves are DIFFERENT.. this isn't even an opinion matter. you can be good with Falcon and automatically be good with Ganon. What you're complaining about is something as small as "they look kind of the same"


IMO I'm down for clones when they are changed up. We get MORE characters with more variations.

If you like Mortal Kombat X variations, this is no different. Doc is a variation of regular mario. They play differently, but it's the same character.

I'm tired of people ing about clones, because you're hurting the game from my perspective where I get more fighting styles, You just want them to "look aesthetically different enough" to appease your false sense of diversity.

Guess what? clone characters are SUPER easy to make, actually don't play alike at all. We get more characters this way because not as much development time is being wasted.

You can state what you want, but don't act like things you say aren't up for criticism man.
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dude, why you so worked up?

I get it.

You think they are different enough
And i don't think they are different enough

No need to run in circles :beer:
 
lol I don't "THINK" they are different.

there is a difference.

THEY "ARE" Different.

Falco's lasers stun.
Fox's Doesn't.

Falco's shine sends you up.
Fox's Shine sends you down or slides you on the ground.

Fox's up+B is longer and has a burning fire hitbox as you charge.
Falco's is shorter, but has KO potential, and has NO fire hitbox as you charge.

Falco's Down-air is a single hit, and it spikes.
Fox's Down-air is a multi-hit, good for stopping crouch cancels.

Fox's Forward B is longer, and sends them up.
Falco's is shorter, but meteor's them.

Falco's up air doesn't send people too far, good for extending combos.
Fox's up air sends a little farther, w/o platforms doesn't combo very long, can be smash DI'd out of, but can also be used as a KO move.


this is only a very small FRACTION of changes between these two clone characters.

they are different, You are factually incorrect to think they aren't different.
 
Critical-Limit said:
lol I don't "THINK" they are different.

there is a difference.

THEY "ARE" Different.

Falco's lasers stun.
Fox's Doesn't.

Falco's shine sends you up.
Fox's Shine sends you down or slides you on the ground.

Fox's up+B is longer and has a burning fire hitbox as you charge.
Falco's is shorter, but has KO potential, and has NO fire hitbox as you charge.

Falco's Down-air is a single hit, and it spikes.
Fox's Down-air is a multi-hit, good for stopping crouch cancels.

Fox's Forward B is longer, and sends them up.
Falco's is shorter, but meteor's them.

Falco's up air doesn't send people too far, good for extending combos.
Fox's up air sends a little farther, w/o platforms doesn't combo very long, can be smash DI'd out of, but can also be used as a KO move.


this is only a very small FRACTION of changes between these two clone characters.

they are different, You are factually incorrect to think they aren't different.
Click to expand...

I said Different enough


read
 
Critical-Limit said:
snip
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Critical, you two are looking at this from two different perspectives. You're looking at this from a high level player's perspective, who is aware of all the nuances and technicalities in the game, as well as frames, move properties etc... you're at a level where things that small make a difference.

Kickinwing, from his posts, I can deduce that he isn't at that level and he cares more about the aesthetics of the game. In that respect, his opinion isn't wrong, but neither is yours. You're basing your opinions on different criteria.

It's comparable to SF shotos. Yeah, they look similar and have similar moves, but they play completely differently. The majority of people don't care about that, tho. They just want to perform cool looking moves and have fun.
 
Kzaoo said:
Kickinwing, from his posts, I can deduce that he isn't at that level and he cares more about the aesthetics of the game.
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okay i'm confused.
I thought pressing "A" with Mario did the same exact thing as pressing "A" with Dr. Mario
that's what im calling a "clone".
it has nothing to do with the fact that Mario and Dr. Mario look the same.

can somebody explain the difference?
 
Kickinwing420 said:
okay i'm confused.
I thought pressing "A" with Mario did the same exact thing as pressing "A" with Dr. Mario
that's what im calling a "clone".
it has noting to do with the fact that mario and dr. mario look the same.

can somebody explain the difference?
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I just posted a Fox/falco comparison I'll upload a video example if you want?
 
Critical-Limit said:
nice quick edit bro.


Edit: see no time stamp?
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quick edit?

Edit what? the "enough" part?
That was there the whole time bro. Don't know what you're on about. If i edited anything it was spelling.

anyway
as for Falco/Fox
i get that they have different "B" moves and stuff. And i always have.
I know they play different.

but are the basic punches the same?
is there a difference in speed?
 
Kickinwing420 said:
quick edit?

Edit what? the "enough" part?
That was there the whole time bro. Don't know what you're on about. If i edited anything it was spelling.

anyway
as for Falco/Fox
i get that they have different "B" moves and stuff. And i always have.
I know they play different.

but are the basic punches the same?
is there a difference in speed?
Click to expand...

Yes there is. I didn't list ONLY their specials

the down air = Down A in air, Is different.


Down tilt is different too. Falco's can kill much earlier than Fox can with it.

Almost every move is different.

the ones that are BARELY different I think yo might get confused on are Falco/Fox Jabs/uptilt. While they actually do jab almost exactly alike it's still SLIGHTLY different because of their height difference.

it's also good to note, that Fox's jab can lead into a kill move INSTANTLY, while falco's cannot. Which gives each of their jabs different strengths in conjunction with the rest of their movesets.


I'm sorry if I came off hard man, it just seems you were confused.
 
[MENTION=18074]Kickinwing420[/MENTION]

I did this super fast so I'm gonna use this vid+text to explain it.

Notice Mario's Forward-aerial move sends them straight up when they're on the ground? but downward when they are in the air?

Doctor Mario always sends them up+away, and A LOT further because it's a kill move.


Look at how Doctor mario's pills bounce? it covers more aerial mobility and is harder to get over. While regular Mario's hovers close to the ground. But Mario's will hug platforms w/o bouncing.

Mario can wall-jump. Doctor Mario can't.


I didn't post it but Mario's Nuetral Aerial attack as the most impact at the start.

Doctor Mario's Nuetral Aerial attack despite looking the same, gets stronger the longer the move is out.


 
Critical-Limit said:
[MENTION=18074]Kickinwing420[/MENTION]

I did this super fast so I'm gonna use this vid+text to explain it.

Notice Mario's Forward-aerial move sends them straight up when they're on the ground? but downward when they are in the air?

Doctor Mario always sends them up+away, and A LOT further because it's a kill move.


Look at how Doctor mario's pills bounce? it covers more aerial mobility and is harder to get over. While regular Mario's hovers close to the ground. But Mario's will hug platforms w/o bouncing.

Mario can wall-jump. Doctor Mario can't.


I didn't post it but Mario's Nuetral Aerial attack as the most impact at the start.

Doctor Mario's Nuetral Aerial attack despite looking the same, gets stronger the longer the move is out.


Click to expand...

alright cool, i can see what you mean.

Iv always known the "clones" had differences. The "B" buttons were always the most obvious.
Or Falco's "up and B" or Ganons overall difference in speed and strength.

I just never knew about the aerial differences and stuff like that.
And that's what i was confused about. haha.

To ME, When i would press "A" with Mario, i saw no difference in Dr Mario's "A" move.
That's what i meant.

EDIT: Thanks though.
I would consider myself a borderline casual player.
I play enough to not be considered casual, i just don't know all the mechanics and technical stuff. ya know?
So any help in that department is much appreciated.
So again, thanks.
 
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Kickinwing420 said:
alright cool, i can see what you mean.

Iv always known the "clones" had differences. The "B" buttons were always the most obvious.
Or Falco's "up and B" or Ganons overall difference in speed and strength.

I just never knew about the aerial differences and stuff like that.
And that's what i was confused about. haha.

To ME, When i would press "A" with Mario, i saw no difference in Dr Mario's "A" move.
That's what i meant.

EDIT: Thanks though.
I would consider myself a borderline casual player.
I play enough to not be considered casual, i just don't know all the mechanics and technical stuff. ya know?
So any help in that department is much appreciated.
So again, thanks.
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yeah no harm no foul man.

Mucho respect for the way you handled the last few posts.

I don't mind Paper Mario being in either mind you. I'm just with BBBLP in that I don't think Doc is taking up anyone's potential slot. As he's literally just a alternate costume, that got the properties of his moves changed around.

If it takes 1 month to make a new character. I can almost promise it takes about 2 days in comparison to make a clone.
 
tbh though, I'm disappointed that Ganon is still a Cap clone.
Only because of the potential he has with his new look


 
Yeah, you guys are probably right about Paper Mario.

A little off topic from Smash Bros...
But how do you learn all the shit like that? The technical stuff that is..
is it just from playing all the time? I find it very difficult to transition myself from casual to "pro" or whatever.

Take MK9 for example...I play that almost everyday, yet i'm not getting much better.
Don't get me wrong, i'm pretty good...i'm just not getting any better.
And i know it's because i don't know all the technical stuff and whatnot..

So my question is, how can i learn all this fighting game knowledge? Is there some sort of guide online?
Iv searched around and can only find Newbie guides that tell me stuff i already know.
Am i just not noticing all these little technicalities because i'm too slow? lol
 
testyourmight.com is the ultimate site for competitive MK

Though it sounds like what you need is a better understanding of fighting games in general.
You could do some searching online, but your best bet would be to ask actual people. Guys like Critical and I can let you know all the things you need to know in order to get better. Critical knows a lot more than I do, but I can explain things in English lol

Shoot us a message if you ever want to know more about this topic.
 
Kickinwing420 said:
Yeah, you guys are probably right about Paper Mario.

A little off topic from Smash Bros...
But how do you learn all the shit like that? The technical stuff that is..
is it just from playing all the time? I find it very difficult to transition myself from casual to "pro" or whatever.

Take MK9 for example...I play that almost everyday, yet i'm not getting much better.
Don't get me wrong, i'm pretty good...i'm just not getting any better.
And i know it's because i don't know all the technical stuff and whatnot..

So my question is, how can i learn all this fighting game knowledge? Is there some sort of guide online?
Iv searched around and can only find Newbie guides that tell me stuff i already know.
Am i just not noticing all these little technicalities because i'm too slow? lol
Click to expand...

People can show you gimmicks and what works/doesn't work in a specific scenario, but there are a lot of things you must learn yourself like spacing.

To learn all the "little" things. You can't simply "just play" you might auto-pick up some things that work over a long period of time.

but the BEST way to learn. If possible record yourself playing. re-watch matches where you got your butt kicked. Or matches you go even in.

take note of EVERY single time you got hit. Afterwards ask yourself "why did I get hit? how did I get in that situation?" Analyze it and try to figure a way out of it.


If you want an example: here is a random video of me playing Super smash brothers Melee



So @ 2:37. I'm Falcon. But lets take a look at Fox's mistake in this moment.

He gets hit by my Nuetral air, which combo'd into Knee, and then his death.

why did I get hit by that Nuetral Air?
Just before hand he spot dodged. After a spot dodge you are open for a few frames.

So he hit me because of my vulnerability after spot dodge.

Why did I spot dodge?

Because he thought I was going to grab him.

why would I be able to grab him? Because he whiffed an attack in front of Falcon's face, shielded. I threatened him with movement to make him spot dodge. How I ran back and forth. I reacted to his spot dodge and punished.

How do I avoid that entire scenario?

It all started with the whiffed Back-aerial attack he did on his way down to the ground.

So next time you're coming down from above and falcon isn't directly below you. you might not want to just throw out a move and instead wave-land away.

That's just ONE moment in that entire match that you broke down and figured out an answer.

now your opponent can figure out a answer to your answer.

that's where adaptation comes into play and that depends entirely on how quickly you can think applying your previous knowledge of answers you've gained from your past experiences.
 
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[MENTION=8252]Critical-Limit[/MENTION] Thanks man, Iv never even thought of recording myself playing.
I don't have the necessary tools to pull that off, but it's definitely something ill look into.
Asking myself more questions is something i never thought much of either.
Figuring out WHY i got hit rather then "just do better next time".


[MENTION=4889]BBBLP[/MENTION] I might actually have to take you up on that offer.
Iv been playing MK9 since the day it came out. But like i said, i just don't get that much better.
When it comes to lingo i'm pretty good,
I know about Zoning, Pokes, Footsies and all that.
But there is still some stuff i don't know (for example i saw somebody talking about "crossups" the other day. No idea what that is.)
And i'm just no good at figuring out match ups on my own.

Anyway ill try to remember to message you tomorrow.
Seriously, thanks a lot guys
 
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