Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel Death's Cold Embrace!"

[kaballer]

Kaballer’s Guide to Sub Zero

This is more of an intermediate rather than introductory Sub-Zero guide. You will find no inputs for specials, etc.

Spoiler:

1: front punch
2: back punch
3: front kick
4: back kick
U: up
D: down
B: back
F: forward
NJP: neutral jump punch (U then 1 or 2)
JPS: jump in starter (UF then 1 or 2)
L: low hit
M: medium hit
O: overhead hit
E: enhanced

Trading

The properties of Ice Ball make Sub-Zero a character that cannot be traded with. Whatever damage he takes from a projectile will be made up by the damage he inflicts when he combos on the frozen opponent. So when someone insists on trading, don't worry about blocking. Trade.

Ice Ball freezes the opponent for 3 seconds.
E Ice Beam freezes the opponent for 6 seconds.
E Ice Beam in the air freezes the opponent for 3 seconds.


Anti-Air

Sub-Zero is a character that can keep his opponent grounded.

If the opponent jumps forward:

1) 22: the hitbox for this string is the entire ice sword, which gives Sub-Zero an advantage against opponents that insist on jumping in on you. Can be confirmed into Ice Ball.
2) Ice Clone: use if opponent is jumping forward but too far for case 1.
3) E Ice Beam: use if opponent is jumping forward but too far for case 2.

Spoiler:

Keep reminding yourself to drop the uppercut habit. Learn to punish a jumping opponent in more damaging ways.

If the opponent jumps back:

1) Ice Slide: this is a guaranteed hit (unless the opponent teleports).

Spoiler:

A tell that you’re facing an experienced opponent is that he refuses to jump back against you.

Zoning

This is Sub-Zero’s plan A. Now that you know how to keep the opponent grounded, use the Ice Clone to keep your opponent from crossing a line on the stage. Continue to advance to the corner until the opponent is trapped. If the opponent is a teleporting character, continue to advance to the corner until you bait a teleport.

If the opponent neutralizes plan A, move on to plan B.


Mix-Up

This is Sub-Zero’s plan B. Although most see him as a zoning character, Sub-Zero’s mix-up game is dangerous.

22 Mix-Up

22 is the string that you want to use. Forget B12. 22 is faster, safer, has better range, and, most importantly, cannot be jumped over.

1) 222: (M,M,O)
2) 22 - Ice Slide: (M,M,L)
3) 224: (M,M,M)
4) 224 - Ice Slide: (M,M,M,L)
5) 224 - Ice Clone: (M,M,M)

Spoiler:

If the opponent neutralizes plan B, string #5 is useful for falling back to plan A.

6) 22 - 22: (M,M,M,M)

Spoiler:

The recovery on the first 22 is just fast enough to make your opponent unable to punish on reaction. The key is not to use this string repeatedly.

If at any point you connect with 22, stop your string and confirm into Ice Ball.

B4/F4 Mix-Up

B4/F4 is an underused tool that Sub-Zero possesses. Responding to constant 22 mix-ups, the opponent may get used to stand blocking. Hit him with a couple of B4's. As he low blocks expecting another B4, follow with F4.

1) B4 - F4: (L,O)

Spoiler:

F4 by itself is unsafe. If you realize that the opponent is stand blocking, make F4 safe by immediately confirming into Ice Clone.

If at any point you connect with F4, immediately confirm into Ice Ball.

After you freeze the opponent with a zoning Ice Clone or a mix-up Ice Ball, it is time to follow up with a high-damaging combo.


No Meter Ground Combos

Opponent is Close

Spoiler:

These combos are difficult. If this is your first time using Sub-Zero, you will drop these combos. Overcome these difficulties in practice mode until you can pull off each combo off 19 out of 20 times. Fortunately, because your opponent is frozen, you can take a breath and concentrate on your inputs.

NJP - F dash - B12 - 212 - Ice Slide
(24% dmg if frozen by Ice Ball)
(30% dmg if frozen by F4 - Ice Ball)
(30% dmg if frozen by 22 - Ice Ball)
(33% dmg if frozen by JPS - 22 - Ice Ball)

Spoiler:

You don’t have to wait until you hit the ground to dash, you can execute the dash command while you’re still falling from NJP.

You will whiff if you input 212 directly after B12. Wait until you hear the sound of Sub-Zero’s dagger stabbing the opponent, then input 212.

JPS- 214 - Ice Slide
(25% dmg if frozen by Ice Ball)
(31% dmg if frozen by F4 - Ice Ball)
(30% dmg if frozen by 22 - Ice Ball)
(33% dmg if frozen by JPS - 22 - Ice Ball)

Spoiler:

This combo does the same damage as the previous, but it will push the opponent one body length less towards the corner. Do not use this unless you are closer to the corner. In that case, make JPS a cross-up in order to switch positions with the opponent.

Opponent is Far Away

JPS - 214 - Ice Slide
(25% dmg if frozen by Ice Ball)

Spoiler:

You have to use the JPS because you won’t have enough time to start with NJP.

No Meter Air Combos

Opponent is Close

NJP - F dash - B12 - 212 - Ice Slide
(26% dmg if frozen by Ice Ball)
(31% dmg if frozen by E Ice Beam)

Spoiler:

Yes, the same air combo does more damage if you use E Ice Beam instead of Ice Ball. Another reason why E Ice Beam is great anti-air.

B12 - 212 - Ice Slide
(22% dmg if frozen by 22 - Ice Ball)
(24% dmg if frozen by 22 - E Ice Beam)

Spoiler:

You must whiff B1. This combo is used when the opponent is frozen parallel to the ground. This position occurs when punishing a teleport, roll, or jump with a 22 - Ice Ball. In this position, NJP in the previous combo will knock the opponent to the ground and end the combo. This combo is the most damaging alternative.

Opponent is Far Away

Ice Slide
(7% dmg if frozen by Ice Ball)
(9% dmg if frozen by E Ice Beam)

Spoiler:

Not much else you can do. Due to do damage scaling, JPs - Ice Slide would do the same amount of damage.

No Meter Corner Combos

B dash - B12 - 224 - Ice Slide
(38% dmg if frozen by 214 - Ice Ball)
(41% dmg if frozen by JPS - 214 - Ice Ball)
(42% dmg if frozen by 214 - E Ice Beam)
(45% dmg if frozen by JPS - 214 - E Ice Beam)

Spoiler:

You must whiff B1. The timing on this combo is strict. You must input the B dash at the proper time, or you will not connect with B12.

Spoiler:

But isn't 22 the string you always start with? Not in the corner. If the opponent blocks 224, you should not confirm into Ice Ball because that leads to a punish. You should confirm into Ice Clone. This does not work in the corner with 224. Only with 214.

X-Ray Ground Combos

Opponent is Close

JPS - 214 - X-Ray
(43% dmg if frozen by Ice Ball)
(48% dmg if frozen by F4 - Ice Ball)
(46% dmg if frozen by 22 - Ice Ball)
(49% dmg if frozen by JPS - 22 - Ice Ball)

Spoiler:

You will whiff if you input X-Ray directly after 214. Take note that Sub-Zero is able to hold his X-Ray. Hold the X-Ray input and release it when the opponent is on the downward trajectory from 214.

Opponent is Far Away

JPS - 214 - X-Ray
(43% dmg if frozen by Ice Ball)

Spoiler:

Fortunately, since the previous combo starts with a JPS, the previous combo still works.

X-Ray Air Combos

Opponent is Close

NJP - F dash - B12 - 212 - X-Ray
(38% dmg if frozen by Ice Ball)

B12 - 212 - X-Ray
(31% dmg if frozen by 22 - Ice Ball)

Spoiler:

You must whiff B1. This combo is used when the opponent is frozen parallel to the ground. This position occurs when punishing a teleport, roll, or jump with a 22 - Ice Ball. In this position, NJP in the previous combo will knock the opponent to the ground and end the combo. This combo is the most damaging alternative.

Opponent is Far Away

X-Ray
(28% dmg if frozen by Ice Ball)

Spoiler:

Not much else you can do. Due to damage scaling, JPS - X-Ray would do 8% less damage.

X-Ray Corner Combos

B dash - B12 - 224 - X-Ray
(53% dmg if frozen by 214 - Ice Ball)
(55% dmg if frozen by JPS - 214 - Ice Ball)

Spoiler:

You must whiff B1. The timing on this combo is strict. You must input the B dash at the proper time, or you will not connect with B12.

Meter Management

Sub-Zero’s meter management is the best in the game. His plans do not rely on meter, and at the same time build meter rapidly. This means you should often have a comfort cushion in the form of a combo breaker.

Do not spend your meter on anything other than:

1) Combo Breaker
2) E Ice Beam
3) X-Ray (only for an X-Ray combo that would close out the round)

 

[bmsirhc]

Re: Kaballer’s Guide to Sub Zero

Can a mod move this here

http://www.trmk.org/forums/showthre...read-quot-Feel-the-Cold-Embrace-of-Death-quot

 

[D0Z3R]

Re: Kaballer’s Guide to Sub Zero

tagged for later

 

[rinc-e]

Re: Kaballer’s Guide to Sub Zero

Well I disagree on the b12 mixup ..I think 22 is simply faster ..u can go for a JP,b12 in safe situations. (Punishing Projectiles)

"(28% dmg from freeze) If opponent is far away: JPS - 214 - Ice Slide" - Thats actually 26%

also if u do starter-freeze, u can simply step back jp,214xxslide and it does the same dmg as Njp, dash, b12,212xxslide ..the only reason to not do it is: The Corner! there u are able to go for Starter-freeze, NJP, NJP, b12,214xxslide

and I believe (cant test atm) JP, b+12xxfreeze, step back, JP, 214xxXray = 55%

edit: (no starter)freeze JP,214xxXray = 45% not 48%

I also disagree on "Do not spend ur meter for anything else than Xray and EX Freeze"

For example fighting against a "good" Kung Lao. Ur pressured with ur back in the corner, and he hit confirms a spin ..u dont want to eat ~40-50% dmg without him using any meter, SO u have to Break him ASAP! So breakers ARE important! especially against big dmg chars.

Another thing about his mixups ..I'm not sure ..can u cancel his b121/4 into clone? because thats why 224(xxClone) is so important.

 

[kaballer]

Re: Kaballer’s Guide to Sub Zero

Well I disagree on the b12 mixup ..I think 22 is simply faster ..u can go for a JP,b12 in safe situations. (Punishing Projectiles)

B1 and 2 have the same start up speed. If anything, I think B1 might be a tad faster because it's the front hand.

"(28% dmg from freeze) If opponent is far away: JPS - 214 - Ice Slide" - Thats actually 26%

Nope. Just tested it again for you. It's 28%

also if u do starter-freeze, u can simply step back jp,214xxslide and it does the same dmg as Njp, dash, b12,212xxslide ..the only reason to not do it is: The Corner! there u are able to go for Starter-freeze, NJP, NJP, b12,214xxslide

NJP - F Dash - B12 - 212 - Ice Slide will push the opponent farther into the corner than JPS - 214 - Ice Slide. I know this seems counterintuitive because of the roundhouse kick in 214, but the juggling in B12 - 212 does more pushing. Even if the damage is the same, pushing the opponent farther into the corner is a great reason to use the more difficult combo.

and I believe (cant test atm) JP, b+12xxfreeze, step back, JP, 214xxXray = 55%

Nope. Just tested it again for you. It's 58%

(no starter)freeze JP,214xxXray = 45% not 48%

Nope. Just tested it again for you. It's 48%

I also disagree on "Do not spend ur meter for anything else than Xray and EX Freeze"

For example fighting against a "good" Kung Lao. Ur pressured with ur back in the corner, and he hit confirms a spin ..u dont want to eat ~40-50% dmg without him using any meter, SO u have to Break him ASAP! So breakers ARE important! especially against big dmg chars.

I agree with you. The first paragraph was all about how important combo breakers were to Sub-Zero's game. Combo breakers are the absolute #1 priority in his meter management. I was just referring to other viable uses for meter. I'll edit that to avoid confusion.

Another thing about his mixups ..I'm not sure ..can u cancel his b121/4 into clone? because thats why 224(xxClone) is so important.

Yes, you can cancel B121 into any special you want. In fact, two of the mix-up strings I listed had Sub-Zero doing exactly that.

 

[Fox17]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

The jump punches must be normal not neutral to do more damage, try it.

 

[kaballer]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

The jump punches must be normal not neutral to do more damage, try it.

I highly doubt it because in MK:

1) You are rewarded more damage if you start with NJP.

2) You cannot execute the B12 - 212 juggle if you don't start with NJP.

But I will bite. What combo(s) are you referring to?

 

[Fox17]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

What combo(s) are you referring to?

Forget what i said i got confused lol

 

[Asodimazze]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

I disagree with this : "Forget the enhanced ice slide into enhanced ice clone.You’re not going to pull that off against an experienced opponent. And the pay off in damage for that amount of meter is not worth it.".

1) You can use this trick with a normal clone using only 1 bar instead of 2
2) If used properly and at the right moment it could work well against any opponent
3) You can land a + 30% combo...isn't that enough for 1 bar?

 

[kaballer]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

I disagree with this : "Forget the enhanced ice slide into enhanced ice clone.You’re not going to pull that off against an experienced opponent. And the pay off in damage for that amount of meter is not worth it.".

1) You can use this trick with a normal clone using only 1 bar instead of 2
2) If used properly and at the right moment it could work well against any opponent

You bring up a valid point, it can be done. But the clone has to be four dash lengths away for the E Ice Slide to not throw the opponent over the clone. I just tested it; even at three dash lengths away Sub Zero will hit the opponent over the ice clone. At four dash lengths, it takes 3 seconds for Sub-Zero's E Ice Slide to reach to the opponent and the opponent to reach the Ice Clone. The regular ice clone only gives you 4 seconds. Therefore, you have 1 second to do the E Ice Slide input.

If your opponent can't react to an ice slide of four dash lengths and can't anticipate a move that has a 1 second window, then your opponent is not experienced. So yes, it can be done, but it cannot be done on an experienced opponent.

3) You can land a + 30% combo...isn't that enough for 1 bar?

NJP on a cloned opponent after an E Ice Slide will not start a juggle. It will simply knock the opponent into the floor. B12 will also whiff. Therefore, the most you can do on a midscreen cloned opponent after an E Ice Slide is 212 - Ice Slide. This will come together to do 28% dmg. Even if we disregard how easy the E Ice Slide into Ice Clone is to anticipate, 28% dmg for one bar of meter is not worth it considering every non meter combo Sub Zero has in his arsenal is 28%+ dmg.

In my honest opinion, this is a strategy that wastes one bar of meter, extremely easy to block, and extremely punishable. It may pay off, but it is no different from closing your eyes and pressing the X-Ray input. The risks far outweigh the rewards.

Would you agree?

By the way, I love your sig.

 

[Fox17]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

I have some more tactics ill add to the thread later.

 

[mrb1973]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Njps on a frozen opponent after a ice clone ex slide doesn't work because the neutral punch grounds your opponent when in any frozen state that isn't standing and you can juggle after that combo using b1,2 but you have to intentionally whiff the b1 the 2 in that string is what juggles an airborne
Enemy although against anyone with half a brain the ex slide into ice clone is easily seen therefore easily punished

 

[kaballer]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

you can juggle after that combo using b1,2 but you have to intentionally whiff the b1 the 2 in that string is what juggles an airborne

Nice tip! I stand corrected. Just tested it; 32% is the max dmg you can do on a midscreen cloned opponent after an E Ice Slide.

although against anyone with half a brain the ex slide into ice clone is easily seen therefore easily punished

Exactly. Hence why, even with 32% dmg, it is not worth trying.

 

[Asodimazze]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

You bring up a valid point, it can be done. But the clone has to be four dash lengths away for the E Ice Slide to not throw the opponent over the clone. I just tested it; even at three dash lengths away Sub Zero will hit the opponent over the ice clone. At four dash lengths, it takes 3 seconds for Sub-Zero's E Ice Slide to reach to the opponent and the opponent to reach the Ice Clone. The regular ice clone only gives you 4 seconds. Therefore, you have 1 second to do the E Ice Slide input.

If your opponent can't react to an ice slide of four dash lengths and can't anticipate a move that has a 1 second window, then your opponent is not experienced. So yes, it can be done, but it cannot be done on an experienced opponent.

- Regarding the distance, I agree. This techique can be used only when your opponent is at certain distances.
- Regarding the fact that this cannot be done on an experienced opponent, I disagree. Even experienced opponents make errors in some situations, and in my opinion the EX Ice Slide into Ice Clone is a tip that every good Sub-Zero player should know and use at the right time.

NJP on a cloned opponent after an E Ice Slide will not start a juggle. It will simply knock the opponent into the floor. B12 will also whiff. Therefore, the most you can do on a midscreen cloned opponent after an E Ice Slide is 212 - Ice Slide. This will come together to do 28% dmg. Even if we disregard how easy the E Ice Slide into Ice Clone is to anticipate, 28% dmg for one bar of meter is not worth it considering every non meter combo Sub Zero has in his arsenal is 28%+ dmg.

If you miss the opponent with the first hit of B12, and hit with the second, you can add it to your combo and do 31% damage with normal slide or 33% with EX slide (which should never be used to end this combo).

In my honest opinion, this is a strategy that wastes one bar of meter, extremely easy to block, and extremely punishable. It may pay off, but it is no different from closing your eyes and pressing the X-Ray input. The risks far outweigh the rewards.

Would you agree?

I agree and disagree . This strategy may be risky if used randomly, but if used at the right moment, it will probably give you results. I don't think 31% damage isn't enough for 1 bar of meter...

By the way, I love your sig.

Ahaha thanks and sorry for my poor english.

 

[mrb1973]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Pretty much anything at close range off an ice clone is risky and the pay off isn't worth it not to say an ice clone is useless heck against maleena its your best friend

 

[smoke1ne]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

i have aquestion if you make a clone and throw someone into it does it freeze them>??

 

[Fox17]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

i have aquestion if you make a clone and throw someone into it does it freeze them>??

If you mean using a throw move, i dont think so, the throw moves takes many time in being fully performed, they clone melts quickly.
In the demo clones lasted longer and they werent destroyed when the rival hit sub-zero, i hate they nerfed it a lot, i also hate that you cannot clone near the opponent that sucks and its stupid.

 

[mrb1973]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

No even a ex clone breaks if you throw them into it and a regular one is gone after the throw and about that jp b1,2,iceball,jp 2,1,4,xray combo don't know if its cuase I'm on ps3 and only have the day 1 update but its only doing. 55% for me here and an even 50 if you change the second jp to a neutral punch ok must be something off but all of kabbalers damage values are off some lower some higher

 

[Fox17]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

I added 3 basic tactics and a 51% xray combo.

 

[kaballer]

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

about that jp b1,2,iceball,jp 2,1,4,xray combo don't know if its cuase I'm on ps3 and only have the day 1 update but its only doing. 55% for me here and an even 50 if you change the second jp to a neutral punch ok must be something off but all of kabbalers damage values are off some lower some higher

Alright, so here's the deal. I tested this X-Ray combo like 10 times. In actual matches. Every time, I got 58% dmg. Just to give you proof that I am not making this up, here is an iPhone photo I took post-combo.

Spoiler:

However, I had many people message me questioning my damage outputs. So I asked Asodimazze, a trusted Sub-Zero user, to test the X-Ray combo as well. Lo and behold, he got 55% dmg. The only thing I could figure is that my X-Box is not connected to the internet, so I have not received any updates. These updates most likely changed the damage outputs. I apologize for that, and if anyone has the proper damage outputs for the wrong ones I listed, please PM me and I will edit the guide.

I do have one big question, however: did NRS really nerf Sub-Zero? Again?