[SPOILER] Who we know wont be in mk11 and your mk11 roster predictions.

[p.W]

I don't get why people are thinking that shang tsung will come back. I mean the dude wasn't just killed, his entire soul was absorbed by sindel as pure energy. No way he comes back.

Raiden is very concerned about the possibility of Shang Tsung's return in Cassie's ladder ending, and Shang Tsung does return in Ermac's ending. I don't think NRS shares your sentiments about how definitive Shang Tsung's death was.

 

[Commander]

No. Not stale. The word you were thinking of is "Stable".
In order for it to be stale, much more than 70 percent of the roster will have to remain constant.

No.
He was correct.
The proper word was "Stale."
50% of the roster being from MK1 & MKII (13 characters out of 25) would make it feel stale, if the same MK1 & MKII roster keeps repeating game after game in MK11 and MK12, not just 70%.

I don't get why people are thinking that shang tsung will come back.

I don't get why people argue that ______________ can't come back.
MK9 & MKX have proven that dead characters can be playable on the main roster, and MKX even took it a step further by allowing people to play as characters that start off being dead from the previous game and stay dead in the MKX story (Kitana, Kung Lao, Liu Kang).
Kitana and Kung Lao had VERY little story importance and even fewer story lines, and those 2 are playable.
Sub-Zero was turned into a cyborg and then killed off, and now he's human again with very little explanation in MKX other than "One of the benefits of Quan Chi's sorcery" as a poor explanation.

 

[p.W]

I get it, but MK is going to become really stale if the MK1+2 roster keeps coming back for every single entry.

Is MK going to become stale if that happens?

I would argue that no (and fleshing out the characters you do have is one great way to not only keep things fresh in the short term, but keep fans invested in the long term). I would also argue that we already have proof that "no."

The MK1+2 roster has been back for four core games in a row, now, and MKX is receiving universal acclaim.

 

[Yaniv Shmuel Avizrats]

Funny that they have chosen to put Quan Chi as a loyal servant.

As payment for your loyal services Quan Chi, I grant you the gift, of YOUR EXISTENCE.

MY EXISTENCE???

I memorized the entire ending. Probably my favorite one in all of MK.

 

[Yaniv Shmuel Avizrats]

Its like people here never heard of other fighting game franchises. The only Fighting game franchise "fans" which want to get rid of many original successful characters for the taste of the hour are in MK. Listening to them brought the franchise to the brink of extinction. Revitalizing the old (much as SF4 did) saved it (as much as it did for SF4).

I sometimes wonder if those mk originals haters are all Bi Han fans trying to exact their vengence on the characters which did survive to become iconic.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

No.
He was correct.
The proper word was "Stale."
50% of the roster being from MK1 & MKII (13 characters out of 25) would make it feel stale, if the same MK1 & MKII roster keeps repeating game after game in MK11 and MK12, not just 70%.

Those are the same characters who are putting butts in seats, eyes on televisions, hands on controllers, discs in consoles, or whatever phrase you want to use to describe sales. NRS would seriously risk being shut down by WB if they didn't build their roster that way. If they REALLY wanted a fresh roster, they would do so in the form of an entirely new IP carrying an entirely different title.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

 

[Commander]

Is MK going to become stale if that happens?

I would argue that no (and fleshing out the characters you do have is one great way to not only keep things fresh in the short term, but keep fans invested in the long term). I would also argue that we already have proof that "no."

The MK1+2 roster has been back for four core games in a row, now, and MKX is receiving universal acclaim.

4 core games in a row?
Armageddon doesn't count as it had every single character in existence.
By that same mentality, the claim could also be made that the entire MK4, DA and Deception debut roster is there too.

Also, MKvsDC was missing Mileena, Johnny Cage, Reptile, Kung Lao and Goro.
The entire MK1 and MKII has not been in 4 games in a row, so that is a false statement.

Those are the same characters who are putting butts in seats, eyes on televisions, hands on controllers, discs in consoles, or whatever phrase you want to use to describe sales. NRS would seriously risk being shut down by WB if they didn't build their roster that way. If they REALLY wanted a fresh roster, they would do so in the form of an entirely new IP carrying an entirely different title.

The entire MK1 & MKII roster doesn't need to be in every single game, as MKII, MK3, MK4, Deadly Alliance and Deception have proven, and last I checked those were still Mortal Kombat games and people loved them a lot.
Also, last I checked, MKII, MK3 & MK4 had almost half of their roster (roughly 45%) consisting of new debut characters, and those games did well.
Way to exaggerate, though. :laugh:

 

[p.W]

4 core games in a row?
Armageddon doesn't count as it had every single character in existence.
The same claim could be made that the entire MK4, DA and Deception roster is there too.
Also, MKvsDC was missing Mileena, Johnny Cage, Reptile, Kung Lao and Goro.
The entire MK1 and MKII has not been in 4 games in a row, so that is a false statement.

Nobody is literally talking about every single MK1/2 character coming back. You're getting hung up on semantics.

MKX has MOST of MK1/2 characters back, just as MKvsDCU had MOST of MK1/2 characters (and no one else except Quan Chi). That's what the argument is about. Four games in a row have cast the MK1/2 characters as the driving force of the series. The question is can MK11 continue that trend without feeling stale?

[MENTION=18253]Lord Greyjoy[/MENTION] says no. Given MKX's landmark success, I say yes, easy.

 

[Commander]

Nobody is literally talking about every single MK1/2 character coming back. You're getting hung up on semantics.

MKX has MOST of MK1/2 characters back, just as MKvsDCU had MOST of MK1/2 characters (and no one else except Quan Chi). That's what the argument is about. Four games in a row have cast the MK1/2 characters as the driving force of the series. The question is can MK11 continue that trend without feeling stale?

[MENTION=18253]Lord Greyjoy[/MENTION] says no. Given MKX's landmark success, I say yes, easy.

I'm not getting hung up on anything.
You're not being clear in your last reply.

Only 2 of the last 4 games had most of the MK1 & MKII cast, though, as Armageddon had every single character ever in existence and MK9 was essentially UMK3 version 2.0, so that doesn't count either.
Either way, the ONLY needed characters for the series to progress, as deemed by NRS with MKX are Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Raiden, Mileena, Liu Kang, Kitana and Kung Lao.
The last 3 and masked Sub-Zero are ESPECIALLY proof of that, as their default skins are non-canon "what ifs" in MKX.
Those "what if" default character skins in MKX are pure fan service, otherwise people would b**** and moan about playing with those revenant versions.
Heaven forbid that OSU16Bit and Perfect Legend don't get Kitana and Kung Lao, though, or we'd never hear the end of it.

The rest of the MKX roster is replaceable / interchangeable with other MKII, MK3, MK4, DA, Deception or new characters, as Cassie and Jacqui may prove to do in MK11.
I'm sorry, but BOTH Sonya and Johnny aren't needed with Cassie in MK11, as 1 or both of them can sit out, and the same goes for boring and stale Jax in MK11.
Sonya isn't even 1 of the 2 most famous MK females.
The Ken and Ryu of MK females are Kitana and Mileena.

 

[Lord Greyjoy]

[MENTION=18253]Lord Greyjoy[/MENTION] says no. Given MKX's landmark success, I say yes, easy.

I never said it would, I just meant it would be a tougher effort to keep things fresh.

Truthfully, I don't mind seeing the MK1/MK2 cast in every game, but I would prefer another roster like MK Deception, which only had the bare essentials of trilogy favorites (Scorp, Sub, Raiden, Liu - the iconic four, you might say) and the rest of the trilogy characters that had been largely ignored up until then.

 

[Commander]

I would prefer another roster like MK Deception, which only had the bare essentials of trilogy favorites (Scorp, Sub, Raiden, Liu - the iconic four, you might say) and the rest of the trilogy characters that had been largely ignored up until then.

This.
Exactly.
Thak you.

 

[Yellow Ledbetter]

I don't get why people are thinking that shang tsung will come back. I mean the dude wasn't just killed, his entire soul was absorbed by sindel as pure energy. No way he comes back. As for quan chi well the only guy who can do anything about him is nightwolf or the elder gods themselves. I don't think that onaga will revive everybody, he won't revive anybody, why should he?

A lot of endings not only make reference to him, but reveal plots involving him and hint a Shang Tsung rebirth.

I would be mad if he was on this game and I get mad when Vogel appears, as he does all the time, saying that what we have seen is not what we have seen, but something he meant that it's obvious that it wasn't.

At the least they are hinting a rebirth, not an excquisite "Hey! I was always here!".

Didn't you think he would stay dead forever, did you?

Sent from Earthrealm. Please, beware the Thunder God!

 

[VictorMefer]

Raiden, Liu Kang and Kitana are pretty much confimed for the next game. Scorpion and Sub-Zero aren't going anywhere. Kung Lao has strong chances of returning, and Mileena has some as well. The rest of the roster could be a lot more varied. Now that we have the kids, the parents can sit out for a game (or forever, maybe?). Kung Jin, Takeda, Jacqui and Cassie are pretty much the new cast of Earthrealm heroes. Many of the other new characters from MKX can return, like Kotal and D'Vorah. We can have returning characters from the 3D era. Some have already been reestablished, like Tanya, Fujin, Sareena, Li Mei, Frost, Havik, Reiko. The rest could be new characters.

There, an MKD-like roster.

 

[p.W]

Only 2 of the last 4 games had most of the MK1 & MKII cast, though, as Armageddon had every single character ever in existence and MK9 was essentially UMK3 version 2.0, so that doesn't count either.

I don't care what NRS's intentions with MK9 were, the discussion here is whether NRS relying on the MK1/2 cast to make up between 60%-90% of the roster in every single game will make the series feel stale. Whether they decided to remake UMKR3 or not is totally irrelevant to whether people found the game and its roster stale. They could have not remade UMKR3, or they could have remade MK1, then remade MK2, then remade MK3 as three completely separate games. I don't care.

The only thing that matters is that the main cast of the last 4 games has been 60%-90% made up of MK1/2 characters, and the last two games have received the best reviews in MK franchise history.

So based on this, I posit that MK11 could again have 60%-90% of its roster be MK1/2 characters, and it will again receive unanimously positive reviews, and have the best sales in MK franchise history, and it would not feel "stale" in any meaningful, impactful way.

Either way, the ONLY needed characters for the series to progress, as deemed by NRS with MKX are Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Raiden, Mileena, Liu Kang, Kitana and Kung Lao.

LOL@ Johnny Cage not needed for the series to progress.

Let's go through this guy's resume, shall we? Leads the Forces of Light and personally defeats Shinnok in MKA; one of the main characters of MK9 and one of only two Earthrealm survivors; leads the good guys in Raiden's absence in MKX, beats Shinnok to save Earthrealm, husband of Sonya, father of Cassie, friends with Sub-Zero, Kenshi, and Jax; his life being in danger is literally the reason Cassie is able to beat Shinnok; he is the only character confirmed to appear in every season of MK Legacy at this point...

Your opinion of Johnny Cage's importance to the MK franchise seems to be at least 5 years out of date.

Heaven forbid that OSU16Bit and Perfect Legend don't get Kitana and Kung Lao, though, or we'd never hear the end of it.

You mention this in every thread where you discuss the roster, and I'm just not interested in indulging your crusade against 16Bit and Perfect Legend. There are plenty of reasons to include Kitana in MKX that have nothing to do with 16Bit, and if NRS really was really dumb enough to decide 1/25 roster spots based on his personal preference, then it's a mystery how MKX didn't bankrupt the company at all, let alone actually make them tons of money.

I'm sorry, but BOTH Sonya and Johnny aren't needed with Cassie in MK11, as 1 or both of them can sit out, and the same goes for boring and stale Jax in MK11.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I'm not a huge fan of Jax, myself, but I recognize that NRS seems to consider him an honorary MK1 character and treats him as such. I would rather face the probable reality of his inclusion in MK11 and champion more interesting character development for him, than hope that NRS decides to appease me personally by taking him out for the first time in 10 years.

 

[Commander]

I don't care what NRS's intentions with MK9 were, the discussion here is whether NRS relying on the MK1/2 cast to make up between 60%-90% of the roster in every single game will make the series feel stale. Whether they decided to remake UMKR3 or not is totally irrelevant to whether people found the game and its roster stale. They could have not remade UMKR3, or they could have remade MK1, then remade MK2, then remade MK3 as three completely separate games. I don't care.

The only thing that matters is that the main cast of the last 4 games has been 60%-90% made up of MK1/2 characters, and the last two games have received the best reviews in MK franchise history.

So based on this, I posit that MK11 could again have 60%-90% of its roster be MK1/2 characters, and it will again receive unanimously positive reviews, and have the best sales in MK franchise history, and it would not feel "stale" in any meaningful, impactful way.

It doesn't matter that you don't care.
A reboot is a reboot and it's obviously going to have everyone from that era.
It wouldn't be a reboot, otherwise.
The only thing that can be compared is MKX and how many klassic characters from MKX make it to MK11.

You're also nicely ignoring the fact that MKX also got positive reviews and praise for its 3 variations, fluid gameplay that surpasses both MK9 and Injustice combined, has Fatalities that don't rely on the MK9 cut-point system, has a decent story (although it could have been better) than about 99% of other fighting games out there and has Living Towers and Factions that keep the player constantly engaged and involved in the outcome of their chosen Faction.
Ferra/ Torr, Kotal Kahn, D'Vorah, Erron Black, Cassie Cage, Takeda, Kung Jin and Jacqui are also stellar characters, but sure, go ahead and ignore that.

LOL@ Johnny Cage not needed for the series to progress.

Let's go through this guy's resume, shall we? Leads the Forces of Light and personally defeats Shinnok in MKA; one of the main characters of MK9 and one of only two Earthrealm survivors; leads the good guys in Raiden's absence in MKX, beats Shinnok to save Earthrealm, husband of Sonya, father of Cassie, friends with Sub-Zero, Kenshi, and Jax; his life being in danger is literally the reason Cassie is able to beat Shinnok; he is the only character confirmed to appear in every season of MK Legacy at this point...

Your opinion of Johnny Cage's importance to the MK franchise seems to be at least 5 years out of date.

I'm not out of date with anything.
Old timeline is irrelevant ever since the amulet cracked in MK9 and the timeline skewed, but Ok.
1 of 2 EarthRealm survivors? Nope.
More like 1 of 5 EarthRealm survivors (Kenshi, Sonya, Kano, Raiden, Johnny).
Raiden wasn't absent in MKX, they were fighting together, just that Raiden and Fujin were protecting the Jinsei from Quan Chi and Shinnok and Sonya and Johnny were both on their way there to reunite with Raiden and Fujin.
Beats Shinnok in MKX? Nope. Distracted him enough for him to kick the amulet to Raiden and Raiden saved EarthRealm once again.
Being a father isn't much to put on a resume, given that even the worst scumbags on earth can procreate.
How is Johnny getting caught and being Shinnok's victim a positive point for Johnny?
Cassie defeated Shinnok and put a more permanent stop to him, not Johnny, so Cassie gets that victory.
Legacy has nothing to do with MKX, but ok.

You mention this in every thread where you discuss the roster, and I'm just not interested in indulging your crusade against 16Bit and Perfect Legend. There are plenty of reasons to include Kitana in MKX that have nothing to do with 16Bit, and if NRS really was really dumb enough to decide 1/25 roster spots based on his personal preference, then it's a mystery how MKX didn't bankrupt the company at all, let alone actually make them tons of money.

Such as?
Please elaborate.
How much story relevance did she have in MKX? Exactly.
You could have given any of the other dead revenants the same minuscule amount of story that Kitana was given, and they would have mattered to the MKX story just as much.
My point was that Kitana and Kung Lao are back for the sole reason being because a few tourney fighters want them in.
The proof is in the fact that they have NO major part in the story and their MKX roles didn't really have any effect on the outcome.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. I'm not a huge fan of Jax, myself, but I recognize that NRS seems to consider him an honorary MK1 character and treats him as such. I would rather face the probable reality of his inclusion in MK11 and champion more interesting character development for him, than hope that NRS decides to appease me personally by taking him out for the first time in 10 years.

Jax was brought back due to Jacqui.
Again, as I've said before, dead people don't have kids.
Plain and simple.
Twist it around any way you like, if that helps you sleep better, but the fact of the matter remains that without Jax there is no Jacqui.
Same goes for Johnny.
Without Johnny there is no Cassie.

 

[Yaniv Shmuel Avizrats]

i give up. We had the same exact discussion ever since Cassie Cage was announced. You can win all the internet discussions in the world. At the end of the day, the 12 iconic characters are here to stay. All of them (not including Bu Hun). MKX proved to be innovative new and have great reception with them. MK9 as well. Nothing is stale. We finally have great franchise out of the gimicky Mortal Kombat. But you will keep complaining on the roster for all eternity. Fine, I say. I know that NRS are with me on this. And they proved it. And the general crowd cheered. Thank you. And good night.

 

[Commander]

It will start to get stale if "klassic" characters aren't rotated and new ones aren't added.
2/3 of the MKX roster are klassic characters.
Geez, what more do people really want?
With the mentality in this thread, it seems that people want to see Trilogy characters and only Trilogy characters.
What's the point in that?
Do you people seriously want to see the same repeated roster, game after game after game after game?
I wonder how many people that are opposed to some fresh breath of air characters in MKX and future MK games were against MKII, MK3 and MK4, which also had about 45% of the roster being new in each of those sequels.

 

[Yaniv Shmuel Avizrats]

Do not make the main claim here as "against new characters". That is a bull and you know it. It is against the removal of something like 12 originals. Mk2 removed 2 and brought them back to mk3. Mk3 decoded eventually to bring all of them, the same as mk4 final version (gold). The first game to break off of this mold was Deadly Alliance and the second was Deception. Both are considered to be turds or just unknown to the general public.
Same thing happened with sf3 (though it is just unknown, not a turd) and soul calibur 5 (mostly turd, Namco wish it to be unknown).
Find a way to renew games without givibg up the classics. This route is just lazy and Deception proved it. Renewing the originals and adding more is smart and creates entetaining fighting games. Mkx proved it.

 

[FluffehBunnehDuckeh]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the story doesn't decide the roster, the chosen roster decides the story.

 

[kadell]

After MKX, Shinnok is currently the only character who definitely won't be back. Quan Chi can possibly return seeing how he survived death in Baraka's MKGold ending. Mileena can easily come back through her clones. Baraka came back to life in MKGold, so I don't see why he can't this time.

Let's be honest, NRS isn't about that life. MK11 will have 2/3 of the roster with MK1-3 characters. It's pretty much confirmed by the endings of the Earthrealm characters that they'll be in MK11, especially JC (who knows how the live as long as Erron) and Sonya (who isn't going into retirement anytime soon). Street Fighter V is prepping to stop using the same roster over and over as they are coming with Characters from the Alpha series, 3, and even new characters. When they sales start showing, we'll see which direction is the right one.