Noob-Zer013
New member
Kahn got a taste of his own trickery.
Raiden WILL appear
- Thread starter Outworld Imp
- Start date
Commander
Well-known member
Yes.
Exactly.
Raiden finds this trick out after fighting against the dead warriors in the Nether Realm, and understanding the TRUE meaning of his past self's words.
"He must win" referred to Kahn stepping through the portal, completing the illegal invasion, and compelling the elder gods interfere.
By stepping through the portal with intentions of invading (without rightfully winning in Mortal Kombat), Shao Kahn breaks those rules of the elder gods, and thus the elder gods had to put an end to him.
Sub-Zero
New member
Guys in the original MK3 Kahn invaded earthrealm and was running rampant on it. Elder Gods didn't do anything about it because Liu Kang kept beating him.
These guys had to lose this fight to finally get the intervention they needed from the Elder Gods to finally destroy Shao Kahn.
These guys had to lose this fight to finally get the intervention they needed from the Elder Gods to finally destroy Shao Kahn.
Ricochetmatt
New member
Yes, they had to lose. So Raiden allows Kahn to beat the hell out of him, knowing the Elder Gods would intervene. He fakes his defeat as there was no REAL battle. You can't lose a fight if there never was one. Like Araknyd said, it was a one sided ass whoopin that Raiden ALLOWED for an ultimate victory against Kahn.
This isn't rocket science, guys. NRS doesn't possess the ability to deliver genius story telling. It's not that difficult.
Besides, the biggest power play was performed by Shinnok. He deceived and manipulated everyone and everything. He's the real winner of MK9. lol
Commander
Well-known member
Key words right there: "In the original timeline."
MK9 isn't the original timeline, though.
MK9 erased the original timeline, ever since Dark Raiden got killed, and this is now on a new timeline.
In THIS version of the MK timeline, the elder gods didn't give a crap about the many lives that were lost or who actually won or lost, until Shao Kahn tried to invade without winning an MK tournament.
Taj Gill
New member
Both theories work IMO. And here's why:
Raiden feigning defeat is true, but near the end when he was getting his ass kicked and was about to get Fatality'd, I really felt that he was panicking because the Elder Gods immediately didn't punish Kahn when he walked through.
Secondly, Kahn didn't go through the portal in MK3 when he invaded Earthrealm, he was challenged by Liu Kang. Kahn, thinking of redeeming himself for his loss in MK2, got c0cky and accepted Liu Kang's challenge, which he subsequently lost. Shao Kahn for all we know could've tried another invasion after MK3, but clearly was too weak and discouraged.
Raiden feigning defeat is true, but near the end when he was getting his ass kicked and was about to get Fatality'd, I really felt that he was panicking because the Elder Gods immediately didn't punish Kahn when he walked through.
Secondly, Kahn didn't go through the portal in MK3 when he invaded Earthrealm, he was challenged by Liu Kang. Kahn, thinking of redeeming himself for his loss in MK2, got c0cky and accepted Liu Kang's challenge, which he subsequently lost. Shao Kahn for all we know could've tried another invasion after MK3, but clearly was too weak and discouraged.
Ricochetmatt
New member
It's true. There was a brief sense of panic in Raiden's eyes at one point. But in the end, his little trick still worked out in his favor.
Kzaoo
Active member
Raiden deliberately lost. That's not faking defeat. That's losing so he could win.
Put it this way... if you're playing a match in MK9. You know you can't win, so you don't try to win by using a breaker out of the last combo, and just let your meter build for the next round, did you not lose that round?
Of course you did. Even if you did it for a reason.
Part of Raiden's plan was losing, not faking a loss. He needed to lose.
If the Elder Gods did not intervene, then Raiden would have died. I'm pretty sure that's losing.
But your viewpoint depends on whether you see the fights as two separate fights, or one big one.
Put it this way... if you're playing a match in MK9. You know you can't win, so you don't try to win by using a breaker out of the last combo, and just let your meter build for the next round, did you not lose that round?
Of course you did. Even if you did it for a reason.
Part of Raiden's plan was losing, not faking a loss. He needed to lose.
If the Elder Gods did not intervene, then Raiden would have died. I'm pretty sure that's losing.
But your viewpoint depends on whether you see the fights as two separate fights, or one big one.
Taj Gill
New member
It was a trick, but technically Raiden still "lost" as he conceded Earthrealm to Kahn. "He must win" means that he needs to concede Earthrealm, which never happened in the Original Timeline because of Liu Kang challenging Shao Kahn to Mortal Kombat.
I'd give you thanks Kzaoo, but I can't right now.
I'd give you thanks Kzaoo, but I can't right now.
Ricochetmatt
New member
From a story viewpoint, he did in fact FAKE his defeat. We're not talking about how the rules of an in-game match would apply.
Raiden knew he would ultimately win had he allowed Kahn to achieve a false victory. If Kahn truly won, then he won. End of story. But that wasn't going to happen.
Commander
Well-known member
Raiden faked defeat by tricking Shao Kahn and bowing to him.
The difference is that Raiden didn't fight, so while Shao Kahn beat his ass, a beating and a fight are 2 completely different things.
A fight would infer both parties are involved, and Raiden was not involved.
He was letting himself get beat, to buy some time and ensure that the elder gods showed up.
Raiden didn't need to lose.
Shao Kahn needed to win.
By Shao Kahn stepping through the portal and completing the invasion, Shao Kahn "won" and the elder gods stepped in.
It also likely didn't help that Shao Kahn bad-mouthed the elder gods (as Ricochetmatt said), and threatened to become an elder god himself, which is what likely further expedited the elder gods showing up at that very moment.
This.
Kzaoo
Active member
Is it a false victory, though? Even if Raiden let Shao Kahn beat him down, Shao Kahn still technically won. Shao Kahn winning requires Raiden to lose, because if Raiden fakes losing, then Shao Kahn's victory is not real, either.
Shao Kahn won the battle, but Raiden won the war (and the second battle) so to speak.
But I'm seeing this as two different fights. If you're seeing this as one fight, then yeah, you're right. The definition of losing is failing to win. So, I'm seeing this as Raiden failed (on purpose) to win the first battle, and then won the second one. Your perspective is probably that Raiden didn't fail to win at all, right?
I can see your viewpoint.
Shao Kahn won the battle, but Raiden won the war (and the second battle) so to speak.
But I'm seeing this as two different fights. If you're seeing this as one fight, then yeah, you're right. The definition of losing is failing to win. So, I'm seeing this as Raiden failed (on purpose) to win the first battle, and then won the second one. Your perspective is probably that Raiden didn't fail to win at all, right?
I can see your viewpoint.
Ricochetmatt
New member
No, I don't think he failed to win. He only gave the illusion of defeat.
Kahn's victory was never real. Raiden discovered the loop hole to beating Kahn while also preventing Armageddon. Let him cross over and think he has won. The Elder Gods will take care of it from there.
Flying Jinko
New member
There are some things to take note as far the as rules of the MK tournament goes. First being Raiden's inability to participate unless directly challenged.The second being if Shao Kahn had actually challenged Raiden (or anyone else for that matter) and won, he would have obtained the right to merge Earthrealm with Outworld without the elder god's intervention as he went by the rules. This could be the reason why Raiden accepted defeat from the beginning itself, before Shao Kahn even challenged him, since there was a good chance of Raiden losing to him in a fight. By doing so he took away Shao Kahn's only legal/rightful way to merge the realms without repercussions.
Commander
Well-known member
Not really.
Shao Kahn winning doesn't automatically mean Raiden losing (in a physical beating).
It means that Shao Kahn's illegal invasion plans were successful, and Raiden knew that, which is why he stopped Liu Kang.
Shao Kahn won by choosing to invade Earth Realm, without a victory in Mortal Kombat.
Shao Kahn thought he won the battle by stepping through the portal and completing the invasion.
A fight would constitute Raiden fighting back, which he didn't do.
He got beat down, yes, but Raiden didn't fight and let Shao Kahn ramble on, buying him time.
Shao Kahn beating on Raiden before the elder gods show up is essentially the equivalent of me going into a department store, and beating up an mannequin.
It's not a fight if the mannequin doesn't fight back.
The part after where Raiden is infused with the power of the elder gods IS a fight, as it's 2 people going against each other, and not just 1 person doing all the senseless beating.
Taj Gill
New member
This. Like I said, the argument can go both ways.
Mikey Palmice
New member
Raiden never even tried to fight until the OG's arrived. But Shao Kahn would have smoked him in a real fight handily.
Noob-Zer013
New member
Imagine if Raiden was wrong. How embarrassing that would be going back to the Elder gods after that.
Kzaoo
Active member
All your points are valid. However, even if Raiden was just getting beat down, he still lost. If two boxers enter a ring, and one just lets the other guy hit him and gets knocked out, then is the victor a winner?
Officially, yes. Maybe not in his mind.
I know you may say that this is not a boxing fight, so it's not applicable... but I think it is, since it's a war, so the two are naturally in conflict with each other.
Shao Kahn won... he succeeded in merging the realms. That was his goal. Raiden then won by stopping Shao Kahn, his goal.
One could argue that Raiden's goal to let Shao Kahn merge with earthrealm, which is true... but in that case, it requires Raiden to lose the war by conceding defeat. Whether you see this as a real or fake win for Shao Kahn is a matter of opinion.
It doesn't really matter, anyway. This is extremely pedantic and they're just small details. I can't say that there's definitely a right answer, because this is all about perspective.
Commander
Well-known member
Agreed.
Raiden stopped Liu Kang from fighting Shao Kahn, because that would have been seen as a challenge, thus giving a loophole to merge the realms, if Shao Kahn won.
By Shao Kahn "winning" (aka merging the realms) without winning a tournament, he faced the punishment of the elder gods.