DeLeon Hughes
New member
Infinities suck! No one wants that. Give people a chance. We don't wanna see infinities that were in MK vs. DC.
Kung Lao's Infinite Juggle [MK9]
- Thread starter xTHUGx
- Start date
Eks
Well-known member
What game(s) would you consider truly balanced, then? Simply having different moves means that certain characters are gonna more successful.
Infinites are fine if they're not something anyone can do and if they're avoidable. In fact, I'd rather them be in since they tend to separate the strong from the week players.
Tim Static
New member
I brought up SF4 in terms of most of the tourneys in the year or so Vanilla was the current game, it was won mostly with the top 3 characters in the games tier list (Sagat, Ryu, Rufus). But being balanced cant be pigeon holed into 100% balanced. It depends on the game, but in short, a game with 60-70% of the cast good enough to compete is balanced enough.
Tim Static
New member
The SF2's are extremely balanced. In fact, they are the definition of balance lol.
eh, i wouldnt go that far. but if they are found and have a reasonable amount of logic to keep them, so be it. I really really doubt any programming team does these on purpose.
Even tho it sure does seem like that with MKD, MKA and MKvDC lol
Either way, if you're for infinites or against them, you don't have to worry about ragequitting because of them in MK9. IF you are smart enough to know how to use the Super Meter. If you are one of those people who are just going to blow a bar every time you have the chance then you're just asking to get combo-ed up the ass. The bar is there to avoid huge combos like the one we saw in Mileena's video first and foremost. Then it's there to provide the ability to pull off one of those combos, and finally to pull of an X-ray move. If you get caught in a huge combo/infinite it's your fault.
Eks
Well-known member
From my experience, about half of SSFII's roster is equally efficient. It's pretty rare to see someone be a real badass with people like Dalsim, Honda and even Fei Long. Yeah, it's possible, but the learning/practice curve is huge compared to people like Ryu, Guile and Cammy.
Oh I don't think they should be intentionally added. From what I can tell, the aim is to remove them whenever possible, and, from a developer-standpoint, that's the way to go since I'm sure infinites/100% combos will almost always be found. That's the cool thing about the "backdoor" tweaking they're supposedly including.
The only reason the meters will be helpful against infinites is since you can break combos with it. If you're caught in an true infinite, your not gonna be doing any super specials or X-Rays since you can't do them while you're being attacked.
Tim Static
New member
yea, true, but i HATE breakers. Unless its KI, of course. Why in the world does a game with a BLOCK button have a combo breaker??? Ignorant, point and stupid. i cant say it enough. ugh.
I dunno man, all the characters have absolute god tier players who have dominated from time to time. Seen some nasty nasty players of every character.
thats another reason SF2 is the definitive fighting game.
That's my point exactly. I listed the options the bar gives you from most important to least. And correct me if I'm wrong but, I'm pretty sure the bars fills up when being attacked as well, so there is pretty much no possible "true" infinite. Unless the person chooses not to use 1 bar for a breaker, and I don't get the strategy in that.
Grune_The_Destroyer
New member
At the risk of incurring a verbal beatdown from Tim_Static, whom I don't know but I respect due to his much more extensive background in MK and fighters in general than myself....
I think if infinites are there (purposefully or not), breakers should be present to. You can say something about breakers not being in a game with a block button, I mean at some point everyone, even the best player will have their block defense passed (even if for just once every few fights) and get combo'd. Its just nice to have some means of potentially escaping getting hit with 9 hits at 35% damage (and instead it be only 4 for 15%. Btw those are just random numbers for an example). Tim I didn't see your other thread for your argument against breakers, so I'm just coming from the point of view of the non-tournament average skill leveled fighting fan (although reading more of your posts about tourneys has me really thinking about getting a fight stick and putting in some serious time on MK9 when it gets released).
I guess my argument for breakers is, if a fighter is really good, they will consistently be able to break down an opponents defense multiple times for combos. Even having them all broken, they should still be able to win. Whereas with no breakers, you always have the chance of someone less skilled in all facets of a fighter EXCEPT that one combo who can land it consistently, and you're left with nothing to do but wait until the combo (or round) is over.
I think if infinites are there (purposefully or not), breakers should be present to. You can say something about breakers not being in a game with a block button, I mean at some point everyone, even the best player will have their block defense passed (even if for just once every few fights) and get combo'd. Its just nice to have some means of potentially escaping getting hit with 9 hits at 35% damage (and instead it be only 4 for 15%. Btw those are just random numbers for an example). Tim I didn't see your other thread for your argument against breakers, so I'm just coming from the point of view of the non-tournament average skill leveled fighting fan (although reading more of your posts about tourneys has me really thinking about getting a fight stick and putting in some serious time on MK9 when it gets released).
I guess my argument for breakers is, if a fighter is really good, they will consistently be able to break down an opponents defense multiple times for combos. Even having them all broken, they should still be able to win. Whereas with no breakers, you always have the chance of someone less skilled in all facets of a fighter EXCEPT that one combo who can land it consistently, and you're left with nothing to do but wait until the combo (or round) is over.
Umon Daisuke
New member
The SFII's as Tim mentioned, and Tekken 6. Despite that, I actually prefer the notoriously *less balanced* entries in the respective series. Give me A3, 3S or T3 and TTT anytime.
Infinites are exploits anyway, they're not features so if they do exist in a game, it's the result of less thorough testing than having actual features. At a time, exploits were beneficial and paved the way for some defaults features that we've become accustomed to like just frames and cancels in general but we're past that point.
The SFII's are deemed balanced enough these days, but they weren't back then. The games haven't changed but when something is played for... well, it'll be 20 years soon enough, AND it's well designed (even inadvertently), they become a test of pure skill. Every nuance is known, and it's something that most games don't have the same privilege. UMK3 comes close thanks to the group at UMK, but that's about it.
Tim Static
New member
MK1: Sonya then everyone else
MK2: Kang, Mileen & Jax then everyone else.
MK4: Tanya, Reptile....Jarek & Sub? i believe then everyone else. I am pretty sure that is the top 4.
MK2: Kang, Mileen & Jax then everyone else.
MK4: Tanya, Reptile....Jarek & Sub? i believe then everyone else. I am pretty sure that is the top 4.
Tim Static
New member
My point is that if you dont want to be combo'd, block. thats why there is a block button. Breakers are noob friendly and i've hated them passionately since they were introduced into MK.
mcgriffin
New member
Noob friendly, sure, but it ups the competition and strategy. This is the problem with people who play Magneto in MvC2. It's just a matter of waiting for that first hit to land, and then continuing into this ridiculous infinite. It's not fun or entertaining, and it's not intentional from the development side.
I totally get what you're saying, but I don't think there's much skill competitively to finding an exploit of the game and memorizing it, then relying on it. It's like boxing matches with too much clinching. Just kinda boring.
All that said, I'd be okay with infinites specifically if the super bar doesn't grow while you're getting hit. That way, it punishes players who don't save one up, and opens them up if they have to use it. Sort of like grappling in MMA fights. You can end a match in seconds if you're against someone who's not playing the game with their head.
Doc
New member
Cool story, bro.
Ricochetmatt
New member
I'm down for the monkey porn.
Well I just finished playing some MKII on PSN, and as always I try to pull off infinites whenever possible (mostly with JC as he is my main.) and to be honest people seem oblivious to the fact they exist. I cannot tell you how much hate mail I just got with people calling me a cheater, or that I hacked the game. If this many people don't know what the hell they are doing, maybe breakers aren't such a bad idea.. It really isn't fair to the people who put in the time to practice timing and all that, however.
Eks
Well-known member
To further your point:
Having good combos in your repertoire doesn't mean you'll be a great player. You also hafta know how to trick somebody into giving up their guard so they can be combo'd AND know how to avoid getting hit yourself. Breakers make this level of play a lot less necessary and they sorta shit on the NRS's aim to make this game hardcore. There are also ways to eliminate infinites, but I don't think that's really the point, either.
xTHUGx
New member
Not everything should be balanced, some characters have projectiles while some don't. It's just the advatages that different type of characters have, that's why you have your choice of choosing any character you want, to counter other players moves and combos. Either way , if they are no Infinites in mk9 then they better add brutalities in the freaking game. But lets say you do a combo listed on your ' Move List ' of your charater, And lets say your opponent has very low health. We shoud be able to do a small combo and then just add on the brutality to it, even before it says 'Finish Him'. That'll be good, i'm sure alot of you will support this too if you know what I mean.
mcgriffin
New member
But that's what balance is. Not every character needs projectiles, but if they don't have one, they have a way to get around them or counter them.
Besides that though, which MK1-3 character doesn't have projectiles?