Johnny Cage vs Jax...

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Ok, I'll give my opinion. Johnny Cage has more skill than Jax, and now that Johnny takes things more serious, he is a far better fighter than he was MK9. This showed in the MKX as he defeated Scorpion, Sub Zero, and later in the chapter he defeats Smoke, Jax, and Shinnok. So Johnny is the better fighter and the better character.
 
renegade494 said:
Ok, I'll give my opinion. Johnny Cage has more skill than Jax, and now that Johnny takes things more serious, he is a far better fighter than he was MK9. This showed in the MKX as he defeated Scorpion, Sub Zero, and later in the chapter he defeats Smoke, Jax, and Shinnok. So Johnny is the better fighter and the better character.
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That's not fair. We still don't know Jax's role in MKX. He could be a beast as well.

I'm sorry but I still don't find Johnny beating up Sub and Scorpion believable. It's like Nathan Drake beating up Kratos just because the writers wanted him to. Johnny doesn't come across as a powerful figure at all. I guess that's a part of his charm but......I don't know.
 
essay inc, HF, scroll to the bottom for TL:DR

Last_Starfighta said:
Why shouldn't they be taken into account? Everything that happens in story mode is canon.
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Not really. It's not that black and white. 99.9% of games are only approximations of "how things really happened." Pick any game, I'll tell you things that are obviously bunk and didn't happen and will never be referenced in any canon ever again ever, even though you saw them happen with your own two eyes.

Look at the Johnny Cage vs Sonya fight in MK9. He puts his hand on her shoulder, so she punches him in the gut? And then uppercuts him? Is she a psychopath? And then Johnny proceeds to beat the ever loving shit out of her? Is he a god damn psychopath, too? Uh, sorry, but no.

If the fights in MK9 are really to be believed, then the "heroes" are just sociopathic morons who walk around beating each other to within an inch of life with basically zero provocation. Taking the fights seriously is completely mutually exclusive with taking the characters/lore seriously.

What probably happened is Cage said the same thing we hear him say ("look baby...") and Sonya turned around and gave him a shove. Like a normal annoyed person. At which point Johnny Cage did not beat the shit out of her. Maybe he caught her hand as she was trying to shove him and countered the move, or something like that. And then we're already looking at the domino effect, because if the fight didn't happen, then he has no reason to apologize as sincerely as he does, and he doesn't try to help her up (so the time he does help her up is less meaningful).

So, being the reasonable people that we are, what we're left with of Jax vs Johnny Cage in MK9 is that "Jax shut Johnny Cage up." Does that mean that he punched him on the shoulder and Johnny got the hint? Does it mean that Johnny was already injured from a previous fight off-screen, and all it took was one push to send him to the ground? A push that Mokap could have delivered just as effectively?

The only thing I would say we know for certain is that what we saw is not a 100% accurate representation of what happened.

I prefer [MENTION=5232]Ricochetmatt[/MENTION] 's approach of trying to figure out how the battle would actually go - like if they were fighting in a movie. Well, in a movie, Jax obviously has his metallic arms which give him a huge edge over most non-supernatural fighters, and those could knock Johnny out cold in only a couple of solid hits. He's supernaturally fast, not supernaturally durable.

But he is supernatural. Johnny's Stunt Double variation is some crazy, crazy stuff. Not only is he more agile and technically skilled than Jax, he's also inhumanly agile thanks to his green energy. So he's fully capable of achieving that "flawless victory" he might need in CQC. He may or may not have green projectiles which can keep Jax at bay, and he may or may not have green energy clones which can soften Jax up and distract him. Probably not in a movie.

I rank it MKX Johnny >>>> robot arms Jax >> MK9 Johnny >>>> regular Jax
 
[MENTION=18661]p.W[/MENTION]

Traditionally, everything that happens in the story is canon. Granted, the writers can choose to ignore or "forget" certain specifics but that's up for them to decide; not us. I don't understand how your psychopath point correlates with what I said so I'm going to assume it didn't pertain to me.

At the end of the day, Jax and Johnny fought: Jax came out victorous. That's a fact. Everything else is left up to interpretation.
 
Last_Starfighta said:
[MENTION=18661]p.W[/MENTION]

Traditionally, everything that happens in the story is canon. Granted, the writers can choose to ignore or "forget" certain specifics but that's up for them to decide; not us. I don't understand how your psychopath point correlates with what I said so I'm going to assume it didn't pertain to me.
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It pertains because the only way for MK heroes to not be complete morons and/or psychopaths is for many of the fights (Johnny vs Sonya, Sonya vs Raiden, Liu Kang vs Kitana, Jax vs Johnny, Smoke vs Jade) to have happened very differently from how we saw them.

So if we know that plenty of stuff in MK9 must have happened differently from how we saw it, it falls to us to figure out which stuff seems like it's bullshit and which stuff seems like it's legit and meaningful and we should account for it next time we theorize/debate/whatever. It's on us to be the detectives.

Why does this matter? Because...

At the end of the day, Jax and Johnny fought: Jax came out victorous. That's a fact. Everything else is left up to interpretation.
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I agree that in some way, shape, or form, Jax beat Johnny. However, I couldn't disagree more with using that as an argument for Jax being a better fighter than Johnny. Even if we were to take the fight seriously and interpret Johnny and Jax as being 100% motivated to win and both being in peak condition leading up to the fight, Jax could simply have gotten lucky. A sample size of 1 is worthless, so clinging to that fight as some kind of absolute proof is mega sketchy to me. I would never accept a "Stryker is a better fighter than Kintaro" argument just because Stryker once beat Kintaro and Kintaro never beat anyone, and the same goes for Jax vs Johnny.

That's why I vastly prefer [MENTION=5232]Ricochetmatt[/MENTION] 's approach of actually trying to evaluate them as fighters and seeing what strengths/weaknesses they have.
 
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So a washed up actor that claim to fame was the death of Liu Kang? Jax been does this sh!t for a living and Johnny boy's just a stand in.
 
Last_Starfighta said:
[MENTION=18661]p.W[/MENTION]

Traditionally, everything that happens in the story is canon. Granted, the writers can choose to ignore or "forget" certain specifics but that's up for them to decide; not us. I don't understand how your psychopath point correlates with what I said so I'm going to assume it didn't pertain to me.

At the end of the day, Jax and Johnny fought: Jax came out victorous. That's a fact. Everything else is left up to interpretation.
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You are obviously biased and hate Cage so why don't you leave this thread.
 
p.W said:
It pertains because the only way for MK heroes to not be complete morons and/or psychopaths is for many of the fights (Johnny vs Sonya, Sonya vs Raiden, Liu Kang vs Kitana, Jax vs Johnny, Smoke vs Jade) to have happened very differently from how we saw them.

So if we know that plenty of stuff in MK9 must have happened differently from how we saw it, it falls to us to figure out which stuff seems like it's bullshit and which stuff seems like it's legit and meaningful and we should account for it next time we theorize/debate/whatever. It's on us to be the detectives.

Why does this matter? Because...



I agree that in some way, shape, or form, Jax beat Johnny. However, I couldn't disagree more with using that as an argument for Jax being a better fighter than Johnny. Even if we were to take the fight seriously and interpret Johnny and Jax as being 100% motivated to win and both being in peak condition leading up to the fight, Jax could simply have gotten lucky. A sample size of 1 is worthless, so clinging to that fight as some kind of absolute proof is mega sketchy to me. I would never accept a "Stryker is a better fighter than Kintaro" argument just because Stryker once beat Kintaro and Kintaro never beat anyone, and the same goes for Jax vs Johnny.

That's why I vastly prefer [MENTION=5232]Ricochetmatt[/MENTION] 's approach of actually trying to evaluate them as fighters and seeing what strengths/weaknesses they have.
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I appreciate you trying to talk sense into this senseless person.
 
renegade494 said:
You are obviously biased and hate Cage so why don't you leave this thread.
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Hey, I am biased and hate Johnny, yet I still think he is the better fighter of the two. You shouldn't flick off people, just because you disagree with them. Starfighta has his points and argues in Jax's favour, because he believes Jax is the better fighter. And does so without being rude. So you being rude to him is very unnecessary.
 
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