The 2004 Election

[jmills]

Jgreen everything you just said I agree fully on, but this is another problem I have towards Bush hes showing signs of banning gay marriage, abortion and so on. I just feel this president is rewriting our constitution hes taking away our freedoms a good example regarding that is the patriot act.


When I saw Michale Moore at Usf his special guest was Gloria steinmen most of you should know her shes very famous and a leader in womens rights. She feels that Bush if re-elected will make abortion illegal in fact he's planning on giving new set of laws and giving rights to an unborn fetus... I dont know about you, but that just makes me sick.

 

[g0d]

She feels that Bush if re-elected will make abortion illegal in fact he's planning on giving new set of laws and giving rights to an unborn fetus... I dont know about you, but that just makes me sick.

I've heard of people feeling sick about the actual condoning of abortions, but I've never seen a person get sick over "giving rights to someone". lol, you come off as a fucking moron, and I'm a liberal, too!

 

[jgreenwo]

Jgreen everything you just said I agree fully on, but this is another problem I have towards Bush hes showing signs of banning gay marriage, abortion and so on. I just feel this president is rewriting our constitution hes taking away our freedoms a good example regarding that is the patriot act.


When I saw Michale Moore at Usf his special guest was Gloria steinmen most of you should know her shes very famous and a leader in womens rights. She feels that Bush if re-elected will make abortion illegal in fact he's planning on giving new set of laws and giving rights to an unborn fetus... I dont know about you, but that just makes me sick.

I agree, although I don't think the Roe v. Wade decision will ever be overturned. That should be the woman's choice alone. That, though, is another topic of debate for many people. When does life begin? Conception or birth? When is it murder, and when is it a "procedure"? It all goes back to religion, doesn't it...

Although there are a lot of points that I don't agree with Bush on, I think that his position on the war and him finishing what he has started over the next four years is more important for me. That is something everyone needs to consider and make up their own minds on though.

 

[jmills]

She feels that Bush if re-elected will make abortion illegal in fact he's planning on giving new set of laws and giving rights to an unborn fetus... I dont know about you, but that just makes me sick.

I've heard of people feeling sick about the actual condoning of abortions, but I've never seen a person get sick over "giving rights to someone". lol, you come off as a !@#$ moron, and I'm a liberal, too!

Giving rights to someone and giving rights to a fetus in entirely different since it is the women's body and since the child is living off of the woman I feel it shouldbe up to the woman and not the President to determine and saying that I come off like a moron, just doesnt make sense to me its my opinion and you obviously took what I said to the extreme. Think before you judge, it might help change some of your narrow views of determing a person a moron.


Now Jgreen I agree with you and what you've said I do think that abortion is definetly a must regarding rape and I feel it is a woman's decision and no one elses, but I also think it shows how our society is casually doing away with life just because a woman doesnt want to be bothered. Women today are more strong willed then ever, especially the ones who work. Women feel that they're no longer meant to just be in the home, putting food on the table and rasing the children, but I think that they need to use better judgement sometimes in their decision to get an abortion or if it's necessary.

 

[g0d]

Giving rights to someone and giving rights to a fetus in entirely different since it is the women's body and since the child is living off of the woman I feel it shouldbe up to the woman and not the President to determine and saying that I come off like a moron, just doesnt make sense to me its my opinion and you obviously took what I said to the extreme. Think before you judge, it might help change some of your narrow views of determing a person a moron.

You're saying I "obviously" took what you said to the extreme? Are you assuming what went through my mind when I read your comment? Sounds to me like I'm not the only one guilty of prejudice, eh?

Now Jgreen I agree with you and what you've said I do think that abortion is definetly a must regarding rape and I feel it is a woman's decision and no one elses, but I also think it shows how our society is casually doing away with life just because a woman doesnt want to be bothered. Women today are more strong willed then ever, especially the ones who work. Women feel that they're no longer meant to just be in the home, putting food on the table and rasing the children, but I think that they need to use better judgement sometimes in their decision to get an abortion or if it's necessary.

If your mother was the one who wasn't giving birth to you because she casually had sex with your deadbeat father (just assume your parents are like this...), and they then came to the agreement that they couldn't support a baby, you mean to tell me that a child growing inside that mother has no rights to live a life, just because of the mother's irresponsibility? Now, if you ask me, I'd rather grow up praying to be adopted than never grow up at all. Abortion is wrong, at least 80 percent of the time, with that remaining 20 being given to rape victims. Even still, many women could go through and have the baby, as in today's society, having two biological parents to live with, or even one for that matter, is not necessary as long as the child is brought up in a home.

I consider myself a Democrat but do not believe that the gift of life is something that can be decided by mothers who should have made their decision on the issue long before having sex and getting pregnant.

And I don't follow any organized religion, either, so I can't see how I've been corrupted in my thinking at all. I'm an agnostic who is pro-life, and any woman who believes she can take the role of the fictitious character we call God is overstepping her boundaries as a human being. We do not decide who dies by murdering them, or else we go to jail for it. That is how the law works, and how it should work until someone finds a better idea. End of story.

 

[jmills]

Giving rights to someone and giving rights to a fetus in entirely different since it is the women's body and since the child is living off of the woman I feel it shouldbe up to the woman and not the President to determine and saying that I come off like a moron, just doesnt make sense to me its my opinion and you obviously took what I said to the extreme. Think before you judge, it might help change some of your narrow views of determing a person a moron.

You're saying I "obviously" took what you said to the extreme? Are you assuming what went through my mind when I read your comment? Sounds to me like I'm not the only one guilty of prejudice, eh?

Now Jgreen I agree with you and what you've said I do think that abortion is definetly a must regarding rape and I feel it is a woman's decision and no one elses, but I also think it shows how our society is casually doing away with life just because a woman doesnt want to be bothered. Women today are more strong willed then ever, especially the ones who work. Women feel that they're no longer meant to just be in the home, putting food on the table and rasing the children, but I think that they need to use better judgement sometimes in their decision to get an abortion or if it's necessary.

If your mother was the one who wasn't giving birth to you because she casually had sex with your deadbeat father (just assume your parents are like this...), and they then came to the agreement that they couldn't support a baby, you mean to tell me that a child growing inside that mother has no rights to live a life, just because of the mother's irresponsibility? Now, if you ask me, I'd rather grow up praying to be adopted than never grow up at all. Abortion is wrong, at least 80 percent of the time, with that remaining 20 being given to rape victims. Even still, many women could go through and have the baby, as in today's society, having two biological parents to live with, or even one for that matter, is not necessary as long as the child is brought up in a home.

I consider myself a Democrat but do not believe that the gift of life is something that can be decided by mothers who should have made their decision on the issue long before having sex and getting pregnant.

And I don't follow any organized religion, either, so I can't see how I've been corrupted in my thinking at all. I'm an agnostic who is pro-life, and any woman who believes she can take the role of the fictitious character we call God is overstepping her boundaries as a human being. We do not decide who dies by murdering them, or else we go to jail for it. That is how the law works, and how it should work until someone finds a better idea. End of story.

I did assume thats what went through your head, guility of prejudice? Na, just pointing out what I felt was the obvious. As for your whole Abortion statement. Ive already said that I am for abortion, it shouldbe a woman's choice, however that doesnt mean its used respectfully instead I feel it is somewhat used iresponsibly. For those who are raped I dont know about you, but If I was raped I wouldnt want to raise a constant reminder as to why I have this child... Sure you could give it up to adoption, but im sure for some their point of view is that they want nothing to do with the child. Not even giving it a chance to live.


Yes in a way it is cruel to think this way and to take your feelings out on the child, but in a way I could see why they feel this way. Also what about those who are raped by family relatives ? I would think in that circumstance your thoughts towards abortion should change. Also from a childs point of view living in a foster home or the thoughts of feeling unwanted, going from family to family in some instances. That can lead to a series of negative outcomes. So their are many things that tie into abortion it just isnt simply, oh well this is just wrong, or its a woman's choice.

 

[God of thunder]

I respect all of your opinions and I am aware that the media is only doing things to benefit themselves, but Bush and his whole administration connected with huge corporations doesnt sit well with me. I have my views regarding the invasion in Iraq as to why we would go into Iraq since North Korea and Iran are far more dangerous. Iraq has never done anything to us in fact remeber when Sadam was our friend. America has stabbed so many people in the back to benefit themselves, which is why most of the world hates us. I do admit I am a Democrat I feel that the party is more benenifical to the young and middle class. I also sense that you guys are Republican or lean on the conservative side.


aside from that I dont like what Bush is doing in terms of religion in wearing his religion on his sleeve. Doesnt anyone recall the serperation of church and state ? I mean I belive in God and Jesus Christ, but I dont advertise my religion to the masses as I feel Bush is doing simply to win votes and appeal to the narrow minded, die-hard christians. I just dont like what he's been doing to this country and I feel he will lead down the wrong path as I feel Bush is doing that now.

(Not to get off topic guys.)

Jmills on the portion about bush being closely tied to corporations. Take a closer look at Kerry. The democrats are doing a very nice job of hiding who he's married to. Her name eludes me, but it is that maiden name, Heinz, as in Heinz Ketchup, that rings a bell. 90% of all these "politicians" are very wealthy. Neither one of them are clean. The man is against "sending jobs overseas" when he's married to a women who does just that. Of course Clinton eased the restrictions of corporations going overseas. It's not just politics, corporations in America are gaining quite a bit of influence, it is not politicians you need to watch, it's where their money comes from.

Please read the first paragraph in the constitution. It's about the 4th or 5th sentence. "Government shall make no law thereof infringing on religious rights or freedoms." Not word for word, mind you, but it's no more than a sentence long, and where these individuals discern because of this line an individual should not believe in God (or for those of you who do not believe in the christian god.) or let it be known that he believes in a higher power is ludicrious. Every religion, for the most part, has a moral set of guidelines to follow. In recent years it has not been "religion" that has come under attack. It is Christianity that has come under attack. I personally believe in God, yet I do not force my faith on other individuals, nor do I believe that other individuals should be bombarded or forced to comform to ideals for another's reason or purpose. I can not display a manger seen in city limits, yet an islam in schools in new york, where "prayer" or a moment of silence is not aloud, are given time out of the day to do whatever it is to their god. A jew can display their symbol, a Black can ( I am not being racist.) their little circle. Yet, I can not put up a manger scene, it offends people if I have a WWJD sticker on my car. Religion in it's true sense and purpose is a wonderful thing. Having faith in a higher power is beyond my words to describe. But greedy men, lustifilled for power or other desires, abuse and misuse religion. Read the kuran, it is a brainwash book, and quite hypocritical. I may seem to be going a bit overboard on this, but I am very passionate about my faith, and I would gladly give up my life for it. No one can point out to me where christianity is bad. Turn the other cheek, Love thy neighbor, love one another, treat others as you would be treated, honor thy mother and father, thou shout not murder, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not commit adultry. I could go on for hours. The bible also teaches, we are all human. We all have sinned, and none of us are perfect. We are beings that are motivated by passion and desire. Listen to what a man says, then watch what he does. Our country was founded by people who believe in and loved God. Over the past sixty years we have been trying to force christianity out of America, and the world for us seems to gradually be getting worse. Coincidence?

One nation, under god. Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. That is a statement I am very proud of. God bless America shouldn't be said with discust or scoffed at. It should be said with a meager amount of pride. Not the "rub it in your face I'm better than you" pride. But something you can look at and be happy with.

 

[God of thunder]

Jgreen


When I saw Michale Moore at Usf his special guest was Gloria steinmen most of you should know her shes very famous and a leader in womens rights. She feels that Bush if re-elected will make abortion illegal in fact he's planning on giving new set of laws and giving rights to an unborn fetus... I dont know about you, but that just makes me sick.

Michael Moore is an angry man with an agenda and a vandetta. If he wasn't filled with narrowed viewed, hatefilled bull I'd listen to the man more open mindedly.

Jgreen everything you just said I agree fully on, but this is another problem I have towards Bush hes showing signs of banning gay marriage, abortion and so on. I just feel this president is rewriting our constitution hes taking away our freedoms a good example regarding that is the patriot act.

My friend, ( I am not trying to be rude or insulting.) you are very poorly informed about how are constitution changes. The president alone can not change it. It takes it being ratified in 40 of the 50 states, passing in the house of congress, in the senate. It is a process that takes a long time. Years.

On the term of gay marriage, I see this more as a fad or "rebellion" more than anything else. It is a taboo, people do it because it's "cool." I don't approve of it. But there is something Dick Cheiney said in an interview with ABC that I have found to be remarkable and to the point. America is place where people are free. And they should be able to live their lives as free as possible without condemnation from others. (That's about what he said, but you get the meaning.)

On Abortion, it is murder. It is the taking of an innocent life. I can understand where the mother's life is in danger. But to quash an innocent life, a life which is more valuable and precious then any number of any stars in any skies, is abhorent. On the fact of when "life" begins. Force a scientist to tell the truth, it's at the moment of conception when a zygote is made, that is fact. "Women's rights, woman's body, blah de freakin da." I swerve to miss a squirl, and when you picture me think of a 5'9, burly, beer drinking, shot gun toting, redneck minus being stu pid, lol. I do not know if I could ever bring myself to truely harm another human being, it would break me. I have never seen a child that didn't bring a smile to some one's face or put a sparkle in th eir eye. Men and women have responsibilities: Pettiness, greed, selfishness, this is no excuse.

As for the argument about being an unfit parent, adoption. This needs further explanation not.

 

[Insane Cucumber]

Don't get me wrong, I think they both suck. In fact, I equate Bush with being one of the worst presidents I've ever seen, but I think Kerry wouldn't be any better. I'm still fighting with whether or not I will vote at all this time around. I didn't vote for Bush last time, so why would I now? And as far as Kerry is concerned, I don't want to feel responsible for helping in the decision to elect him either. Can I just vote for myself? I promise to deliver booze and painted ladies to every man's doorstep. Unless of course, they are gay. If they are gay, I will send them over to Toasty's place for some hot rear action.

 

[undertaker3x7]

Don't get me wrong, I think they both suck. In fact, I equate Bush with being one of the worst presidents I've ever seen, but I think Kerry wouldn't be any better. I'm still fighting with whether or not I will vote at all this time around. I didn't vote for Bush last time, so why would I now? And as far as Kerry is concerned, I don't want to feel responsible for helping in the decision to elect him either. Can I just vote for myself? I promise to deliver booze and painted ladies to every man's doorstep. Unless of course, they are gay. If they are gay, I will send them over to Toasty's place for some hot rear action.

hell, id vote for was for president lol

 

[God of thunder]

and then the post just dies.

 

[g0d]

and then the post just dies.

lol, damn undertaker and his thread-ending comments.

 

[God of thunder]

That or no one can come up with a counter argument to my post(s).

 

[kingjolly]

John Kerry all the way!

 

[God of thunder]

Anyone ever notice how the democratic parties symbol is that of a jack ass?

 

[jgreenwo]

On Abortion, it is murder. It(is the taking of an innocent life. I can understand where the mother's life is in danger. But to quash an innocent life, a life which is more valuable and precious then any number of any stars in any skies, is abhorent. On the fact of when "life" begins. Force a scientist to tell the truth, it's at the moment of conception when a zygote is made, that is fact. "Women's rights, woman's body, blah de freakin da." I swerve to miss a squirl, and when you picture me think of a 5'9, burly, beer drinking, shot gun toting, redneck minus being stu pid, lol. I do not know if I could ever bring myself to truely harm another human being, it would break me. I have never seen a child that didn't bring a smile to some one's face or put a sparkle in th eir eye. Men and women have responsibilities: Pettiness, greed, selfishness, this is no excuse.

As for the argument about being an unfit parent, adoption. This needs further explanation not.

I agree with you on most of what you said, but I have to play Devil's advocate here. It is true that life begins at conception, but does that mean the soul, if you believe we have souls, is there at that time? Plants are "alive," and people don't have any problems destroying that form of life. A tumor in your brain is alive as well, and people gladly destroy the living cells that make up something such as that. My point is that the living tissue that we call a fetus is not a conscious being. What makes it any different than removing a tumor, or cutting down a tree? How do we know when life is more than just living cells and it is actually a human being? I think it has to do with religion, and it's not for anyone to decide except the person that it affects.

 

[God of thunder]

How do we know a fetus is not a consciousbeing? Scientists and doctors say from the moment of "birth" a child is growing, learning, adapting. Mother's experience the fetus even moving inside the womb. Women also develop strange eating habits, and throw up "what the child doesn't like" so if the "fetus" isn't a conscious being how come this?

I don't see how abortion has anything to do with religion. It comes down to a person's own moral code, whether they believe that it is or is not murder, and burying their own conscience into that. Jessie Jackson is "reverend" yet he has commited adultry, his religion did not stop him from doing this. He did what he desired, not what was right. Look more into the teachings of Socrates and Plato.

 

[jgreenwo]

How do we know a fetus is not a consciousbeing? Scientists and doctors say from the moment of "birth" a child is growing, learning, adapting. Mother's experience the fetus even moving inside the womb. Women also develop strange eating habits, and throw up "what the child doesn't like" so if the "fetus" isn't a conscious being how come this?

Any living thing reacts to its environment, but that doesn't mean it's conscious. Plants grow, adapt, and react to their surroundings just the same. They grow towards the light, wither and die when they are exposed to something they don't like.

I think abortion has everything to do with religion. Most arguments against it are religious. Why is it wrong? It's killing a child, and according to the bible, that is wrong.

 

[God of thunder]

How do we know a fetus is not a consciousbeing? Scientists and doctors say from the moment of "birth" a child is growing, learning, adapting. Mother's experience the fetus even moving inside the womb. Women also develop strange eating habits, and throw up "what the child doesn't like" so if the "fetus" isn't a conscious being how come this?

Any living thing reacts to its environment, but that doesn't mean it's conscious. Plants grow, adapt, and react to their surroundings just the same. They grow towards the light, wither and die when they are exposed to something they don't like.

I think abortion has everything to do with religion. Most arguments against it are religious. Why is it wrong? It's killing a child, and according to the bible, that is wrong.

A plant does not grow into a human being, a plant is not capable of conscious thought. It does not know right from wrong. It can not get up on two legs and walk around. There is not another specie on this planet that is as unique or intelligent as a homo sapien. And you seem to keep pushing this religious factor, if you have no better contradicting point to assert, perhaps your point in itself has no value.

The theory of evolution is thrown out the window with abortion. The weak perish and the strong survive. Even in the wild, all creatures are born and given even standing to live. There life is not stolen from them before they have drawn an earthly breath, unless the mother is killed or injured by an outside force. In fact, human beings are the only specie on the planet that is its own enemy.

The only true factor behind abortion that is a legitamite argument, is that it is a form of population control. Look at China.

 

[K1LLKANO]

There are just a few flaws in your post. Humans are about the most non-unique species in the world. That is how we thrive. We are able to adapt because we weren't designed by evolution to be in one specific climate/region what have you.

And many species throughout the wild kingdom are their own enemies. Wolf packs fight against each other, and will kill members from ostracized from the pack. Many pack type animals act the same way. Male gerbils, hamsters and other rodents will eat their own young to ensure they are the dominant force within their small world. Species of fish are also known for this.

Even though I am pointing out the flaws in your argument, I do agree that each human should be a given a chance at life. If the parent doesn't feel they will be able to raise the child, then they (mother) should have kept their legs closed, (father) should have never ventured betwixt those legs.

What it mainly boils down to is how responsible we are as a species, and when you look at that as a whole, it's very disappointing. Otherwise, most of the ails that we suffer in this world would be non-existent excluding death and illness.