Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel Death's Cold Embrace!"

[kaballer]

Here is my two cents: the couple of percentage points between 53% or 55% damage does not matter. If you've managed to land any variation of this combo, you've pretty much won the round because the opponent is at half health and you still have the opponent trapped in the corner.

So don't worry about damage and just jump in with 214 instead of 224. 224 is great for midscreen because if the opponent isn't blocking you can just confirm the 22 into Ice Ball. And if the opponent is blocking you can finish 224 and confirm it into Ice Clone. For the corner, however, 224 will not confirm into Ice Clone on a blocking opponent because you remain too close to the opponent. Test it in training mode for proof. 214, however, will confirm into Ice Clone on a blocking opponent in the corner.

So, by jumping in with 214, you put yourself in a win-win situation. If they block, you can do 214 - Ice Clone and keep them trapped in the corner for another jump in. If they do not block, you can do:
214 - Ice Ball - B dash - B12 - 224 - Ice Slide/X-Ray.

 

[Fox17]

And if the opponent is blocking you can finish 224 and confirm it into Ice Clone.

If the opponent is:
*High blocking you can also end the 2,2 with a slide (22,Slide), he will block the 22 but he will not block the slide that hits low.
*Low blocking just do 222 the last 2 is an overhead, so hits low blocking opponents.

 

[rinc-e]

Here is my two cents: the couple of percentage points between 53% or 55% damage does not matter. If you've managed to land any variation of this combo, you've pretty much won the round because the opponent is at half health and you still have the opponent trapped in the corner.

u don't have won the round because u landed a 50% combo ..Its likely that ur opponent has also a 50% combo he "could" land ..

also yes it doesn't matter ..but we are comparing combos here or not? if not ..what am I doing on here ^^ ..could do it for my self ..but no I share my thoughts

and also u asked for the 224 combo or fox did ~~

So don't worry about damage and just jump in with 214 instead of 224. 224 is great for midscreen because if the opponent isn't blocking you can just confirm the 22 into Ice Ball. And if the opponent is blocking you can finish 224 and confirm it into Ice Clone. For the corner, however, 224 will not confirm into Ice Clone on a blocking opponent because you remain too close to the opponent. Test it in training mode for proof. 214, however, will confirm into Ice Clone on a blocking opponent in the corner.

I've been saying this allrdy since ever.. also it's good for mid-pressure JumpInPunches, if u have full Xray (easy to confirm into a 50% Combo)

Max Dmg would be:

MidScreen: JP,22xxFreeze,wait,B2,dash,B12,212xxXray = 57% (with JP,B12 Starter 59%)

So, by jumping in with 214, you put yourself in a win-win situation. If they block, you can do 214 - Ice Clone and keep them trapped in the corner for another jump in. If they do not block, you can do:
214 - Ice Ball - B dash - B12 - 214 - Ice Slide/X-Ray.

no, u can't do that.. as we have been talking about this the last pages ..

u can go for 214xxFreeze,214xxSlide/Xray or if he falls low, because u aren't near enough to the corner, end with 224xxSlide/Xray instead of 214..

or go for advanced stuff, as mentioned above: JP,214xxFreeze,BackDash,B12,224xxXray = 55%

 

[kaballer]

u don't have won the round because u landed a 50% combo ..Its likely that ur opponent has also a 50% combo he "could" land ..

Agreed. You've never won anything until your opponent falls to the floor. But when you did enough damage to push your opponent to the corner in the first place, then pulled off a 50% combo on your opponent in the corner, and still have your opponent trapped in the corner, all with Sub-Zero, one of the most dangerous characters in the corner due to his Ice Clone, I think it is safe to assume you do not need to milk your combos for every percentage of damage in order to win the round.

also yes it doesn't matter ..but we are comparing combos here or not? if not ..what am I doing on here ^^ ..could do it for my self ..but no I share my thoughts

Yes, we are comparing combos. But if you strictly want to compare the damage outputs of combos then, I agree, what are you doing here? Damage outputs I can compare with a calculator. I'm here because I want to compare something you cannot just count. Something you need to discuss with others. The versatility, practicality, and utility of every combo.

B12 does more damage than 22, but we disregard B12 because it is a less versatile string. The same goes for 214 in the corner. A couple percentages of damage do not matter if the string is far more versatile than 224.

and also u asked for the 224 combo or fox did ~~

Fox17 did.

I've been saying this allrdy since ever.. also it's good for mid-pressure JumpInPunches, if u have full Xray (easy to confirm into a 50% Combo)

Max Dmg would be:

MidScreen: JP,22xxFreeze,wait,B2,dash,B12,212xxXray = 57% (with JP,B12 Starter 59%)

That wasn't the gist of what I posted. We have all been in agreement that 22 midscreen is the proper string. The gist of what I posted is that, in the corner, 224 is no longer the proper string and 214 is.

no, u can't do that.. as we have been talking about this the last pages ..

u can go for 214xxFreeze,214xxSlide/Xray or if he falls low, because u aren't near enough to the corner, end with 224xxSlide/Xray instead of 214..

I meant to type 214 - Ice Ball - B dash - B12 - 224 - Ice Slide/X-Ray. That was an unfortunate typo. And you know it was because I was the one who called you out on this same combo being impossible in the last page.

 

[Matt Wilson]

I know a lot of people here aren't big TylerLantern fans, but he can put together a mean combo.

For Sub-Zero. I think this shows a lot of the enhanced combos, plus good tag-team combos too!

 

[Inception]

Okay I have read like 7 pages of posts to catch up considering I have been away from the game for a month. What was the nerf to subzero his damage ? Also next so his new xyray BnB is essentially 214 freeze ? Into b dash into BnB xyray so to speak ? Does the 214 string not kick people away anymore ? Can't wait to try these things. Also this 50% + combo is anywhere ? Or corner only ,

 

[rinc-e]

Agreed. You've never won anything until your opponent falls to the floor. But when you did enough damage to push your opponent to the corner in the first place, then pulled off a 50% combo on your opponent in the corner, and still have your opponent trapped in the corner, all with Sub-Zero, one of the most dangerous characters in the corner due to his Ice Clone, I think it is safe to assume you do not need to milk your combos for every percentage of damage in order to win the round.

yes.. but assuming the enemy has a breaker he's most likely out of the corner. And if he didn't use it to break the 50' he most likely will use it the next combo u get on him. Otherwise hes done.

Yes, we are comparing combos. But if you strictly want to compare the damage outputs of combos then, I agree, what are you doing here? Damage outputs I can compare with a calculator. I'm here because I want to compare something you cannot just count. Something you need to discuss with others. The versatility, practicality, and utility of every combo.

right ..we don't try to get the most damage out of our combos ..so u just go for 222 as anti air instead of 22freeze,b1(wiff)2,212xxslide right? because this combo is too hard ..come on ..r u kidding me`? Ofc I try to get the max damage out of my combos ..unfortunately its not that easy online.. but offline I try that every time. I also try to do NJP,dash 1,dash,b12,212xxSlide/Xray instead of the normal.. why? because it does matter if u do 2%+ dmg on occasion. (Doing that combo twice is allrdy 4% more dmg ..thats not nothing)

I agree that NJP,dash1,dash1,dash1,b12,212xxSlide is not useful, because landing that one is insane. but thats a whole other level than 214xxFreeze,B-Dash,B1(wiff)2,224xxSlide

Also its interesting, since u don't head for max damage - also it is versatile because ur starting with 214, that u asked @S1/Brady Thread about this combo, since its not worth the 2%+ damage, in your opinion.. ~.~

And.. where do I get this calculator from, so I don't have to do the combos again and again if I want to know the exact damage?

B12 does more damage than 22, but we disregard B12 because it is a less versatile string. The same goes for 214 in the corner. A couple percentages of damage do not matter if the string is far more versatile than 224.

yep, I never said anything else. I'm just listing the options.

That wasn't the gist of what I posted. We have all been in agreement that 22 midscreen is the proper string. The gist of what I posted is that, in the corner, 224 is no longer the proper string and 214 is.

again, I used 224 at release time for corner pressure, but switched for 214 pretty soon.

I meant to type 214 - Ice Ball - B dash - B12 - 224 - Ice Slide/X-Ray. That was an unfortunate typo. And you know it was because I was the one who called you out on this same combo being impossible in the last page.

Just wrote that for cleaning misunderstandings. Also I've been with my thoughts not 100% on to that day. meh .."sry"

Okay I have read like 7 pages of posts to catch up considering I have been away from the game for a month. What was the nerf to subzero his damage ? Also next so his new xyray BnB is essentially 214 freeze ? Into b dash into BnB xyray so to speak ? Does the 214 string not kick people away anymore ? Can't wait to try these things. Also this 50% + combo is anywhere ? Or corner only ,

All Combos regarding 214xxFreeze = Corner only.

22(4) is still the proper MidScreen String. But u can mix it up with 214 on JumpInPunches.. also it's not really that usefull, but doing the same combo over and over is boring ;p

sub got nerferd in the first hotfix ~2-3% dmg overall combos.

Xray Combos:

MidScreen: JP,22xxFreeze,Wait,B2(charged),dash,B12,212xxXray

Corner: JP,214xxFreeze,B-Dash,B1(Wiff)2,224xxXray or JP,214xxFreeze,214xxXray

if u happen to land a F4/22/B12xxFreeze in the corner continue with - B2(charged),B12,214xxXray

 

[kaballer]

Yes, we are comparing combos. But if you strictly want to compare the damage outputs of combos then, I agree, what are you doing here? Damage outputs I can compare with a calculator. I'm here because I want to compare something you cannot just count. Something you need to discuss with others. The versatility, practicality, and utility of every combo.

right ..we don't try to get the most damage out of our combos ..so u just go for 222 as anti air instead of 22freeze,b1(wiff)2,212xxslide right? because this combo is too hard ..come on ..r u kidding me`? Ofc I try to get the max damage out of my combos ..unfortunately its not that easy online.. but offline I try that every time. I also try to do NJP,dash 1,dash,b12,212xxSlide/Xray instead of the normal.. why? because it does matter if u do 2%+ dmg on occasion. (Doing that combo twice is allrdy 4% more dmg ..thats not nothing)

I said versatility, practicality, and utility. I never said anything about difficulty. Doing 222 instead of an advanced combo isn't practical because you miss out on around 20% of damage. I have never suggested that.

What I was trying to explain is that you should do the 214 -> 224 corner combo instead of the 224 -> 214 corner combo. Because 214 can be confirmed into Ice Clone if the opponent blocks in the corner and 224 cannot. This makes 214 more versatile in the corner. So if 224 -> 214 does 2% more damage (not 20%), I am willing to compromise that damage for more versatility. Just like I do when I choose 22 over B12 midscreen.

Yes, I asked Tom Brady about it because I wanted assurance. He responded that the idea makes sense but the good players will neutral jump forcing you to do 22 instead of anything else.

However, I want to drop this argument because:

1) You and I usually agree on everything. So I'm pretty sure this is just a misunderstanding. I hope I explained myself a bit better above.

2) After testing, I found out that the 214 -> 224 combo does the exact same damage that the 224 -> 214 combo does. You don't have to sacrifice damage for versatility. So arguing that was pointless, but nevertheless interesting.

 

[rinc-e]

I said versatility, practicality, and utility. I never said anything about difficulty. Doing 222 instead of an advanced combo isn't practical because you miss out on around 20% of damage. I have never suggested that.

That was just an somewhat sarcastic example.. (;

What I was trying to explain is that you should do the 214 -> 224 corner combo instead of the 224 -> 214 corner combo. Because 214 can be confirmed into Ice Clone if the opponent blocks in the corner and 224 cannot. This makes 214 more versatile in the corner. So if 224 -> 214 does 2% more damage (not 20%), I am willing to compromise that damage for more versatility. Just like I do when I choose 22 over B12 midscreen.

Yes I agree on that.

But imo on corner setup - beeing able to safe jumpinpunch,214xxFreeze u either follow up with 214xxSlide/Xray or advanced B-Dash,b1(wiff)2,224xxSlide/Xray.

If not go for 22 mixups -> 22,22xxFreeze/Slide/Clone or 224xxFreeze/Slide/Clone etc

All Im trying to say is if u mastered all of Subs Standards and drop them like 1:15+ or even better ..than u should think about stepping up your game imo.

Yes, I asked Tom Brady about it because I wanted assurance. He responded that the idea makes sense but the good players will neutral jump forcing you to do 22 instead of anything else.

Always depends on your opp's skill and actions.

However, I want to drop this argument because:

1) You and I usually agree on everything. So I'm pretty sure this is just a misunderstanding. I hope I explained myself a bit better above.

2) After testing, I found out that the 214 -> 224 combo does the exact same damage that the 224 -> 214 combo does. You don't have to sacrifice damage for versatility. So arguing that was pointless, but nevertheless interesting.

yes ..I think we got some things mixed up.

but theres still something on my mind. Why does Fox not update proper Combos? regardless of usability they are in the game and maybe useful on occasion. :/

 

[ninja]

I know a lot of people here aren't big TylerLantern fans, but he can put together a mean combo.

For Sub-Zero. I think this shows a lot of the enhanced combos, plus good tag-team combos too!

good video! your avatar looks good too. lots say Subzero is slow but he's a beast character if you master him

 

[ultimatespidey1]

I know a lot of people here aren't big TylerLantern fans, but he can put together a mean combo.

For Sub-Zero. I think this shows a lot of the enhanced combos, plus good tag-team combos too!

His combo's look really cool, but a lot of his ice clone ones would never be able to be pulled off in a real fight.

 

[mv670]

Quick question, how do you beat an aggressive Cyrax? One who relies on the 33DB3, then uses the usual net bomb moves? I use sub zero of course

 

[xTHUGx]

Quick question, how do you beat an aggressive Cyrax? One who relies on the 33DB3, then uses the usual net bomb moves? I use sub zero of course

Subzero VS Cyrax
•You can tech the command grab in a combo but it's like 1 or 2 frames to do so. Regardless, if you try for it after getting netted you might get out for free, so why not try. You can also breaker betweeb the command grab and the net.

•Block the string leading from the command grab into the bomb trap if you fail to tech. It reduces the damage you take slightly.

•On your wakeup, if you want to avoid the command grab, you have to either wakeup slide or crouch without blocking. You can then punish with an uppercut or 2,2. However, if he just does a pressure string you'll eat a full combo. Staying down is probably also a good idea but I don't do that yet.

•Mid/full screen you're gonna trade ice balls with a lot of nets. Usually this is just a comical reset of the match, but if you use enhanced ice ball (ice beam) you can trade full screen with the net, recover, and then dash twice and land JPS -> 214 slide. It's pretty silly.

•When at full screen, stand in front of your clones so that he can't teleport and punish ice balls.

•You can punish bombs at mid screen with slide/xray easily.

•You can't slide under nets (I felt dumb when I kept trying to do this) but you can jump them if well timed. You can get a full combo if you guess he's gonna net and you land jps -> 22 freeze. But the jump can't be late, the net is tall. If you get hit by the net in the air he can't get a bomb trap setup at least.

•If you bait a teleport don't try to uppercut it, do 22 freeze. For some reason the uppercut is less reliable.

•A Cyrax player told me that Cyrax apparently doesn't have good fast normals besides his uppercut so you can get a lot of mileage out of 22 and crossup -> 22.

•You CAN xray through his nets if you do it early enough but I wouldn't do it unless it will win the round or it's the beginning of the round and you can gain the meter back anyway.

•Cyrax's anti-air jump recovers quickly so often players will try to throw you after landing.

•After Cyrax gets you to block a jump-in he gets a free command grab tick. So don't let him jump at you. Clones, uppercuts, and enhanced ice balls all help keep him out of the air.

•Meter management is huge in this matchup so don't do Xray combos unless you think you will win the round because of it.

•Clone pressure in general isn't too powerful because of Cyrax's nets until you get into the corner

 

[Inception]

50% refreeze corner combo I was in total amazement 50/50 guessing game. Rape at it's finest anyway. My timing is a bit off with the re-freeze but new question what new meterless shenagains have birthed from this. I'm excited right now.

 

[rinc-e]

50% refreeze corner combo I was in total amazement 50/50 guessing game. Rape at it's finest anyway. My timing is a bit off with the re-freeze but new question what new meterless shenagains have birthed from this. I'm excited right now.

whats a shenagain? Is that a MindGame? ..

if so ..u can Go for setup: enemie laying on the ground (best used for corner resets, because ur allrdy near the enemy and dont have to dash into his direction) - B2 charge it: Option1 enemie gets up blocking -> Make B2 unbreakable and combo him. Option2 hes going for something else: Dash Cancel out of B2 and go for 22 (Hold 2, FF-22) unfortunately its a guessing game on both sides, which eventually resets.

edit: if u want to see ur opp cry try this: Trap him in the corner confirm a freeze on him. Go for: NJP, NJP, NJP, EXGroundFreeze (u can repeat that as long as u have meter, but remember the opp will probably find out or know how to escape that trap the more often u use it) Wait, B2,B12,214xxSlide -> immediately B2-(mindgame from above) and continue.

 

[Matt Wilson]

How do you stop Smoke players with surprise teleport? It always seems like I try to set up an ice clone and he doesn't do it, and then spams smoke bombs or runs up to me and continues to pummel me until I let my guard down or he teleports again. I tried ice cloning mid combo and got punched in the face, and apparently smoke bomb grabs me mid ice slide. -.-

Same thing with Raiden, only worse. I try setting up ice clones but it seems too predictable, and all of his moves are x2 as fast as Sub Zeros.

 

[MKBlade]

You have to play rushdown in both those matchups. Only use the ice clone on block strings(2,2,4) and move forward immediately. They way the clone is used in these match ups is to stop counter attacking after you finish your 2,2,4(watch out for EX superman) and to advance forward without eating a teleport.

Don't even think about hiding behind an ice clone and throw ice balls from fullscreen.

 

[ultimatespidey1]

What would you do if you're fighting another subzero that plays defensively? I had a match where we were both subzero, but all it ended up being was hiding behind an ice clone and throwing out ice balls. If I tried to rush him, he would slide out of the ice clone.

 

[MKBlade]

A Sub Zero mirror is probably the most boring match up in the game lol. Try getting an early life lead and play lame, that's how you win.

Speaking of matchups there is a WIP over at tym. According to Brady, Sub-Skarlet is 2-8 LOL

 

[Inception]

What would you do if you're fighting another subzero that plays defensively? I had a match where we were both subzero, but all it ended up being was hiding behind an ice clone and throwing out ice balls. If I tried to rush him, he would slide out of the ice clone.

Dash block force aggressive play and rush him. Throws are great as well. Throw more.

Next question is there a visual way to see which way to break throws ? I know which direction breaks the throw but is there a way to see visually?