[SPOILER] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX confirmed!

[Commander]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Nice 180 you did there...weren't you telling me months ago that it wasn't?

I'm using his and your own arguments against you.
Since you 2 are the ones who likes to say that it is canon, and make it so as fact, then the very fact that Bi-Han served Quan Chi is also possible.
It's either Mythologies isn't canon, and there's a possibility that Bi-Han never served Quan Chi in the new timeline, or Mythologies is canon and Bi-Han still served Quan Chi in the new timeline.
So, which one is it, Mr. 180?

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

I'm using his and your own arguments against you.
Since you 2 are the ones who likes to say that it is canon, and make it so as fact, then the very fact that Bi-Han served Quan Chi is also possible.
It's either Mythologies isn't canon, and there's a possibility that Bi-Han never served Quan Chi in the new timeline, or Mythologies is canon and Bi-Han still served Quan Chi in the new timeline.
So, which one is it, Mr. 180?

I stand by Mythologies being canon in totality.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

 

[Subz 711]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Why would Quan Chi possess Bi-Han in MKX, anyways?
MKX comics Scorpion is living proof that when he's away from Quan Chi, he gains his humanity and he can control the wraith.
Bi-Han could have survived the Soulnado and have done the same thing, and controlled the wraith within him.
It would actually explain very well why he tells Ermac that his soul is free and not corrupted.
Since he no longer serves Quan Chi.

Bi-Han also likely served Quan Chi as Sub-Zero during Mythologies.

Mythlogies is canon, whether you like it or not, so yes, I will bring it up.
The CASUAL fans could give less than 2 shits if Sub-Zero is Bi-Han or Kuai-Liang.
They don't follow the story like us hardcore guys do.
They just want the blue ice "ninja" which is called "Sub-Zero."
That's it.
The only ones who actually care which Sub-Zero brother it is, or if it's an entirely new one, are the hardcore fans like me and you.

Okay so my argument went over your head apparently.

The Grunt implied Sub-Zero has been serving Quan Chi. Hmm, last I checked Kuai Liang was Sub-Zero at the end of MK9 Dead or Alive. Cyborg or not. He was still Sub-Zero. The announcer didn't even announce him cyber sub-zero, just sub-zero.

So, he has served Quan Chi MOST RECENTLY. When Sub-zero attacked this grunt in the comics it would have been about 10 or so years after MK1 (deadly alliance has been stated to be 10 years after MK1. Mythologies was even before MK1. So, what makes more sense? The guy referencing Sub-Zero who has served Quan in the last 5 years or referencing a Sub-Zero from 10+ years ago. I'll let you be the judge of that.

Furthermore, if Bi-Han was freed from the soulnado, why would he go back to Quan Chi as Sub-Zero?

Also, let's take a look at this. Kuai WAS STILL known as Sub-Zero at the end of MK9. I've said this several times. Quan Chi, Raiden, Sonya, Cage, etc all knew him as Sub-Zero. So, do you think Quan had possession of Kuai Liang amd just didn't use him? He just set him around in the netherrealm or something? It was stated back in MK4 that Quan was just as scared of Kuai as he was of Bi-Han hence why he sent Scorpion after Kuai in MK4 in the first place. Do you not think that maybe Quan would want to use this warrior for himself if he came into possession of him?

I'm telling you guys. You are ignoring details.

 

[Commander]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

I stand by Mythologies being canon in totality.

Then, by default of standing in favor of Mythologies, you also stand in favor of Bi-Han formerly serving Quan Chi, and that the Sub-Zero in the comics that the Red Dragon goon spoke to could have also been Bi-Han.

Okay so my argument went over your head apparently.

The Grunt implied Sub-Zero has been serving Quan Chi. Hmm, last I checked Kuai Liang was Sub-Zero at the end of MK9 Dead or Alive. Cyborg or not. He was still Sub-Zero. The announcer didn't even announce him cyber sub-zero, just sub-zero.

So, he has served Quan Chi MOST RECENTLY. When Sub-zero attacked this grunt in the comics it would have been about 10 or so years after MK1 (deadly alliance has been stated to be 10 years after MK1. Mythologies was even before MK1. So, what makes more sense? The guy referencing Sub-Zero who has served Quan in the last 5 years or referencing a Sub-Zero from 10+ years ago. I'll let you be the judge of that.

Furthermore, if Bi-Han was freed from the soulnado, why would he go back to Quan Chi as Sub-Zero?

Also, let's take a look at this. Kuai WAS STILL known as Sub-Zero at the end of MK9. I've said this several times. Quan Chi, Raiden, Sonya, Cage, etc all knew him as Sub-Zero. So, do you think Quan had possession of Kuai Liang amd just didn't use him? He just set him around in the netherrealm or something? It was stated back in MK4 that Quan was just as scared of Kuai as he was of Bi-Han hence why he sent Scorpion after Kuai in MK4 in the first place. Do you not think that maybe Quan would want to use this warrior for himself if he came into possession of him?

I'm telling you guys. You are ignoring details.

Nothing went over my head.

Regardless of whether the announcer announced him as "Cyber" Sub-Zero or not, he was.
Also, before he was killed in MK9, Bi-Han was also Sub-Zero.
If Mythologies is canon, as [MENTION=17789]Tarkatan_Trash[/MENTION] stands by, then Mythologies took place shortly before MK9.

What makes you think that Mythologies took place 10+ years before MK9?
If the timeline of MK9 skews just at the MK1 part of the timeline, then Mythologies (if it was canon), would have been 1 year or so before MK9.
The events of Mk9 also took place within what seems to be a few months up to a year between the MK1, MKII and MK3 parts of the MK9 Story Mode.
So, at maximum, you're comparing someone who served Quan Chi for 7 years vs someone who served Quan Chi for 5 years.
Not a big difference.

He wouldn't serve Quan Chi again, that's my point.

You're also forgetting, or convinently skipping the fact that Quan Chi may not have necessarily resurrected Kuai as Sub-Zero, as Scorpion and Noob Saibot are proof of.
How do you know that Quan Chi didn't resurrect him as a new NetherRealm creation?
You don't, but you're conveniently ignoring that little possible detail in your theory.

 

[Viking_Poodle]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

If Bi-Han had received the scar in the OT all the Bi-Han fanboys would be yelling it as definitive proof. Same with the unmasked MK3 costume and the grandmaster variation. You all would be saying the same things. You would be like "Dude this is definitely Bi-Han he's grandmaster", but since it's kuai you're all playing it differently like it doesn't point in his direction at all.

LOL
Are you grouping me in with this? No. Dude. I don't care which brother it is. I'm simply saying, I think it's Bi Han. If it's Kuai, that's fine by me. I'm just glad that Sub made it in the game yet again. I think there's definitive evidence for either character, but more stacked in favor of Bi Han. I'm not the only one that thinks this.

Also in regards to the Sub-Zero in the comic. Bi-Han served Quan Chi as Noob Saibot and got kicked into the soulnado. How in the hell would Quan Chi come back into possession of him as Sub-Zero and why would Bi-Han let Quan Chi control him now that he's free?

I don't know what you're trying to prove here. No one is saying he did come back into posession of him.

The red dragon grunt in the story made it clear that this SUB-ZERO served Quan Chi. The only Sub-Zero who was definitively serving Quan Chi at the end of MK9 was Kuai Liang. Bi-Han ONLY served him as Noob Saibot.

But it's not like they were necessarilly hiding the fact that it was Bi-Han. Noob was pretty casual about telling people. He straight up told Kuai about it in the Cyber Sub chapter "I once wore those colors" "You are not worthy of the name Sub Zero". Red Dragon worked pretty closely with Quan Chi. I'm sure word got around about his wraith/ninja lackey.
Kuai may very well have been under Quan Chi's control but he was not corrupted in the manner that Bi Han was. Which is why most people tend to believe that intro points to Bi Han. That bit of dialogue (Ermac : Your soul is corrupted. Sub: Not corrupted. Freed.) along with the Quan Chi one "I have your brother's soul" tend to point towards Bi Han.

Also don't bring mythologies up as a counterargument because this story is trying to reach to CASUAL fans as well. Many of whom don't even know what mythologies is.

lol why not? They mentioned it in the MK9 storyline. Raiden made a reference to it in MK9 to Cyrax right after Sub was defeated by Scorpion "He once defended earthrealm from the Netherrealm armies of Quan Chi and Shinnok" -- Ch. 3 : Scorpion -

Also does this SOUND like something that would come out of Bi-Han's mouth?
Sub-Zero: How many souls do you Harbor?
Ermac: We harbor them by the thousands
Sub-Zero: YET, YOU HAVE NO HEART.

A Bi-Han who has had his soul tainted and cleansed, made to fight his own brother and allies.. Yeah, probably.

Scorpion already made it clear in the comics Bi-Han did not talk about his feelings. This DOES NOT sound like Bi-Han.

They did not. But ya know what, Scorpion has changed quite a bit as well. Hell, he has a FACE now. Before he was the embodiment of rage and vengeance, now he is in control of himself. I don't see why Bi Han cannot change as well.

Man, this thread has gotten ridiculous. I wish it was still a speculation thread haha

Edit:

Nice 180 you did there...weren't you telling me months ago that it wasn't?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

Yeah I was there too. I did a fair bit of speculating on whether it was canon or not. It wasn't really in regards to this situation though. It was about whether or not Shinnok did a similar thing that Raiden did and sent a message back to himself. I can't really remember the full details. But considering the Raiden quote from Ch. 3, it doesn't really make sense.

 

[reikoiskahn]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Then, by default of standing in favor of Mythologies, you also stand in favor of Bi-Han formerly serving Quan Chi, and that the Sub-Zero in the comics that the Red Dragon goon spoke to could have also been Bi-Han.





Nothing went over my head.

Regardless of whether the announcer announced him as "Cyber" Sub-Zero or not, he was.
Also, before he was killed in MK9, Bi-Han was also Sub-Zero.
If Mythologies is canon, as [MENTION=17789]Tarkatan_Trash[/MENTION] stands by, then Mythologies took place shortly before MK9.

What makes you think that Mythologies took place 10+ years before MK9?
If the timeline of MK9 skews just at the MK1 part of the timeline, then Mythologies (if it was canon), would have been 1 year or so before MK9.
The events of Mk9 also took place within what seems to be a few months up to a year between the MK1, MKII and MK3 parts of the MK9 Story Mode.
So, at maximum, you're comparing someone who served Quan Chi for 7 years vs someone who served Quan Chi for 5 years.
Not a big difference.

He wouldn't serve Quan Chi again, that's my point.

You're also forgetting, or convinently skipping the fact that Quan Chi may not have necessarily resurrected Kuai as Sub-Zero, as Scorpion and Noob Saibot are proof of.
How do you know that Quan Chi didn't resurrect him as a new NetherRealm creation?
You don't, but you're conveniently ignoring that little possible detail in your theory.

Mythologies is canon, as it goes hand-in-hand with MK4. Just thought I'd chime in with that

 

[Rolling_Toaster]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

How do you know that Quan Chi didn't resurrect him as a new NetherRealm creation? You don't, but you're conveniently ignoring that little possible detail in your theory.

You're ignoring that Quan Chi didn't resurrect Kitana and Kung Lao as a new NetherRealm creation.

 

[Yellow Ledbetter]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

The mystery remains on the time where the fight between Scorpion and Sub-Zero, the one from the comic cover, happened.

The Sub-Zero of that fight is, with no doubt, the one we have seen in the game.

We know that he is one of the brothers, and THAT is NO DOUBT.

If that fight happened during the Netherrealm War, then there is a possibility that MKX Sub-Zero is the same one that got the scar, just think about alternate costumes.

If that fight happened AFTER the Netherrealm War and #1, it's obvious that they are different people, and obvious they are the brothers. That would MOSTLY imply the Sub-Zero we have seen on the game as Bi-Han and the scar one as Kuai Liang. That is by rule, of course this could be changed politically.

About dialogues. All imply to the obvious conclusion that it's Bi-Han or Kuai Liang. There are many arguments that points to one of them. But about the dialogue of the heart, even though Kuai Liang was more...sensitive than his elder, this is no proof. Remember Sub-Zero (Bi-Han) is the guy that said he killed Hanzo because he "had no choice" (on the situation, worst excuse ever). He can be "pure hearted" at any time.

And besides, let's believe Bi-Han became pure hearted: after living as Noob Saibot, yeah, I do believe he knows what is to have a heart. Noob was merciless.

 

[Scorch]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

I think we're going to have both in this game like in the last one. I get a Kuai vibe out of comic Sub-Zero, and NOT because he got the scar. It just seems like him, personality wise. In the game itself, there are lines that make you think it's either one. But Bi-Han is definitely strongly hinted at. For example....

Sub-Zero: "Shirai Ryu dog!"

Scorpion: "Lin Kuei scum!"

Sub-Zero: "Death is more honor than you deserve!"

Scorpion probably finds out that Bi-Han wasn't the true killer in this game, but that doesn't change the fact that Bi-Han and Hanzo in particular just don't get along. Kuai never spoke to Scorpion like that in MK9. Hell, Kuai only had a quarrel with Scorpion in MK9 because he killed Bi-Han. Bi-Han provoked Scorpion more like that...

Scorpion: "I will have my revenge, but I will not kill Sub-Zero."

Bi-Han: "Will not, or can not?"

Scorpion: "You. The Shirai Ryu are dead. You will suffer as they did!"

Sub-Zero: "To hell with your clan!"

Scorpion: "No. To hell with you!"

That's just my two cents. Feel free to agree or disagree.

 

[Commander]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

You're ignoring that Quan Chi didn't resurrect Kitana and Kung Lao as a new NetherRealm creation.

You have a point, good sir.
That said, aside from those 2 and Jax we also don't know what happened with the rest of the dead under his control (Sindel, Nightwolf, Smoke, Jade, Kabal & Kuai-Liang).
As much as I can't flat -out say "they are new creations" (which I'm not), like-wise it can't be just auto-assumed that "they aren't new creations" under Quan Chi.

All I'm saying is that it's possible that Quan Chi could have made the rest of the dead into new creations.
Shaun Himmerick DID say that Quan Chi would have an army of EarthRealm revenants, and this wouldn't be the first time that Quan Chi has resurrected people as something new.

 

[Rolling_Toaster]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

You have a point, good sir.
That said, aside from those 2 and Jax we also don't know what happened with the rest of the dead under his control (Sindel, Nightwolf, Smoke, Jade, Kabal & Kuai-Liang).
As much as I can't flat -out say "they are new creations" (which I'm not), like-wise it can't be just auto-assumed that "they aren't new creations" under Quan Chi.

All I'm saying is that it's possible that Quan Chi could have made the rest of the dead into new creations.
Shaun Himmerick DID say that Quan Chi would have an army of EarthRealm revenants, and this wouldn't be the first time that Quan Chi has resurrected people as something new.

If Jax, Kitana and Kung Lao aren't under control then Kuai Liang isn't either.

 

[Commander]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

If Jax, Kitana and Kung Lao aren't under control then Kuai Liang isn't either.

You can speculate and say that he has a good chance of coming back, but you can't say that he isn't under Quan Chi's control for sure, though.
That's my point.
We can't say for sure whether the rest are or aren't under his control.
How do you know that the rest of the warriors aren't under his control and those 3 were the only ones to escape?
How do you know that the rest weren't new resurrected creations from Quan Chi, and they haven't been turned back to their former selves yet?

 

[Vassil01]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

In the intro where Scorpion says "Murderer..." to Sub-Zero I don't think he is talking about his clan.
Scorpion already avenged his family and clan.
What if Sub-Zero accidentally kills Takeda?

 

[p.W]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

In the intro where Scorpion says "Murderer..." to Sub-Zero I don't think he is talking about his clan.
Scorpion already avenged his family and clan.
What if Sub-Zero accidentally kills Takeda?

Never underestimate Scorpion's ability to not get over the death of his family and clan. He asks Raiden to resurrect them in their intro... so... yeah.

 

[Commander]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Never underestimate Scorpion's ability to not get over the death of his family and clan. He asks Raiden to resurrect them in their intro... so... yeah.

That intro was likely referring to the MKX comics, where Scorpion's new clan gets killed again.

 

[Vassil01]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

That intro was likely referring to the MKX comics, where Scorpion's new clan gets killed again.

Yeah, but Scorpion knows that Fox killed the clan so this doesn't make sense.

 

[Commander]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Yeah, but Scorpion knows that Fox killed the clan so this doesn't make sense.

I was talking about the intro between Scorpion and Raiden, not Scorpion and Sub-Zero.

I agree with you that he only Sub-Zero that Scorpion has ever called murderer, was Bi-Han.

 

[jdnice11]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Do you think it would be pointless or accepted that BOTH Sub Zero's were in the game, Bi-Han & Kuai Liang?!

But here's a twist. what if in MKX Scorpion & Kuai Liang were actually an Alliance (Sub Zero's MK9 ending). Realizing they were never enemies. Living their lives until called upon. But with the Resurrection of Bi-Han, seeing Kuai Liang and Hanzo as "friends" he is their enemy or All 3 go after Quan Chi

 

[p.W]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Do you think it would be pointless or accepted that BOTH Sub Zero's were in the game, Bi-Han & Kuai Liang?!

But here's a twist. what if in MKX Scorpion & Kuai Liang were actually an Alliance (Sub Zero's MK9 ending). Realizing they were never enemies. Living their lives until called upon. But with the Resurrection of Bi-Han, seeing Kuai Liang and Hanzo as "friends" he is their enemy or All 3 go after Quan Chi

Why would anyone have a problem with that? MK could use some more good old-fashioned sibling rivalry!

 

[Vassil01]

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

I was talking about the intro between Scorpion and Raiden, not Scorpion and Sub-Zero.

I agree with you that he only Sub-Zero that Scorpion has ever called murderer, was Bi-Han.

Oh, sorry I misunderstood you.

And thanks.