Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?
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Yellow Ledbetter
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Shinnok.
MKX is very clear that "Shao Kahn followed Shinnok's footsteps".
Also, in MK:A, Taven knows Shinnok from the times where he was alongside the other Elder Gods, and Shao Kahn wasn't an invader of Earthrealm at the time. After Argus captures Taven, he still mentions that Shao Kahn showing interest on Earthrealm (where Taven was) was "very unlikely", as he was still occupied with Edenia.
MKX is very clear that "Shao Kahn followed Shinnok's footsteps".
Also, in MK:A, Taven knows Shinnok from the times where he was alongside the other Elder Gods, and Shao Kahn wasn't an invader of Earthrealm at the time. After Argus captures Taven, he still mentions that Shao Kahn showing interest on Earthrealm (where Taven was) was "very unlikely", as he was still occupied with Edenia.
Jion_Wansu
Active member
Shinnok and Taven were friends
Tarkatan Trash
Active member
Let's also consult the original instruction manual of Mythologies.
And there you have it.
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Yellow Ledbetter
Active member
Let's also consult the original instruction manual of Mythologies.
And there you have it.
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Fantastic finding!
Tarkatan Trash
Active member
I actually used to have the instruction manual for the N64 port, but eventually lost it. Luckily, I bought the Playstation port a couple of years ago at a retro game store, complete with the original case and instruction manual. One thing is clear; I still vividly remember the first sentence of the game's story in the instruction manual...
Shao Kahn wasn't the first to attack our realm...
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mattteo
New member
Yes, of course Shinnok attacked Earthrealm before Shao Kahn.
But the bigger question is: was Shao Kahn already attacking Edenia before Shinnok attacked Earthrealm? Obviously yes. Shinnok was still an Elder God when Shao Kahn was attacking Edenia and he was pushed back for a while by the family of the Protector God and the dragons Orin and Caro (Edenia had some strength to resist Shao Kahn with Taven, Daegon, King Jerrod etc.)
We know all this happened 10.000 years ago. So, Shinnok must have attacked Earthrealm around that period too, cause it was after Shao Kahn attacked Edenia.
All evidence points to this from what Raiden says in MK4. Then, Johnny Cage t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ got drunk and said it was "millions of years ago" in the intro of MKX.
Naturally I'd rather take Johnny as an unreliable narrator who would only know the stories he had been told and I chose to believe Raiden in the intro of MK4 and the Mythologies Book, which give the First War with Shinnok at "thousands of years ago".
It would also be dumb for Fujin to be millions of years old, just guarding a Temple all this time. And even Reiko to be millions of years old, cause his bio in MK4 says he was "Once thought killed in Shinnok's war with the Elder Gods....
10.000 looks much more possible, especially as there has been a catacysmic event in real recorded history of Earth which is known as the Great Flood in many religions, dated by historians 8.000 years BC
But the bigger question is: was Shao Kahn already attacking Edenia before Shinnok attacked Earthrealm? Obviously yes. Shinnok was still an Elder God when Shao Kahn was attacking Edenia and he was pushed back for a while by the family of the Protector God and the dragons Orin and Caro (Edenia had some strength to resist Shao Kahn with Taven, Daegon, King Jerrod etc.)
We know all this happened 10.000 years ago. So, Shinnok must have attacked Earthrealm around that period too, cause it was after Shao Kahn attacked Edenia.
All evidence points to this from what Raiden says in MK4. Then, Johnny Cage t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ got drunk and said it was "millions of years ago" in the intro of MKX.
Naturally I'd rather take Johnny as an unreliable narrator who would only know the stories he had been told and I chose to believe Raiden in the intro of MK4 and the Mythologies Book, which give the First War with Shinnok at "thousands of years ago".
It would also be dumb for Fujin to be millions of years old, just guarding a Temple all this time. And even Reiko to be millions of years old, cause his bio in MK4 says he was "Once thought killed in Shinnok's war with the Elder Gods....
10.000 looks much more possible, especially as there has been a catacysmic event in real recorded history of Earth which is known as the Great Flood in many religions, dated by historians 8.000 years BC
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Tarkatan Trash
Active member
Johnny Cage isn't the only one who claimed Shinnok's attack to have happened millions of years ago. Shinnok made the same claim in his own MK4 ending.
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mattteo
New member
Yes, I'm aware of that. Notice though that:
1. this is coming from a person who had been trapped in Hell and originally tormented there by Lucifer. So he could actually be saying how it felt to him.
2. this is the Netherrealm and time there flows differently, therefore appearing much longer to its inhabitants
3. it is an ending, so any stupid things said in it might not even matter
4. in order for things to make sense, like I said, for Fujin not to be stuck in a Temple for millions of years and Raiden to be guarding over HomoErectus and Neanderthals, for Reiko not to be millions of years old and for Argus of Edenia not to have lived for other millions of years more after already being old in the Armageddon konquest mode first scene, then it has to be "thousands of years ago", not "millions of years"
5. "thousands of years ago" is also said in many occasions: the page posted above from the MK4 manual, right the first allignement. also, the MK4 intro narrated by Raiden
mattteo
New member
[MENTION=6894]Tabmok[/MENTION]99, you know I have the utmost respect for you. Your video was at a high standard, as always.
I may not agree to the conclusion you reached, but you do know the MK lore perhaps better than anyone. I really enjoyed the vid.
Maybe you could have gone more in detail about the consequences on some characters if that had happened millions of years ago instead of thousands.
You could have brought up how many characters should be millions of years old. We know of Raiden (described as a young god in the Mythologies book, but that wouldn't contradict anythhing either way), Fujin, Reiko, but also there was Argus, Daegon would be millions of years old if he was awakened soon after entombement, Shao Kahn would have been trying to take Edenia for millions of years (nah, Shao Kahn would never have that patience), Onaga would have been in imemorial times, not able to find a worthy champion like Shujinko to gather the kamidogu all this time. Even Rain would be millions of years old if we go by his MK9 vignette and the War between Edenia and Shao Kahn wasn't exactly 10.000 years ago.
Maybe when we say the numeber "1 million" it doesn't seem a lot, but if you really think about it, 100 years is already a long time. The wise masters of the shaolin are almost 100 years and they are very old. 1.000 years is almost only for great characters in the lore, like Shang Tsung or probably Bo'Rai Cho. Goro is 2.000 years. 10.000 years....well, imagine how much knowledge someone would have in 10.000 years. We have Kitana, the other Edenians, only Raiden, Shao Kahn, Shinnok, Fujin and Reiko are older than this. Ok, Sindel and King Jerrod in the form of Ermac too.
But to go further than 50.000 years...... there aren't even record of human civilization on Earth more than 10.000 years ago. To go 100.000 years into the past, or 500.000 years or 1 million years is such a long time that those characters wouldn;t be humans anymore, they'd have transcended to something else, something with much more knowledge. Let alone not 1 million, but 45-65 million years into the past. So, 45 or 65 times that gigantic number 1 million (which by itself is unthinkable in terms of human life and knowledge).......how can we imagine that Reiko or Fujin are that old?
I may not agree to the conclusion you reached, but you do know the MK lore perhaps better than anyone. I really enjoyed the vid.
Maybe you could have gone more in detail about the consequences on some characters if that had happened millions of years ago instead of thousands.
You could have brought up how many characters should be millions of years old. We know of Raiden (described as a young god in the Mythologies book, but that wouldn't contradict anythhing either way), Fujin, Reiko, but also there was Argus, Daegon would be millions of years old if he was awakened soon after entombement, Shao Kahn would have been trying to take Edenia for millions of years (nah, Shao Kahn would never have that patience), Onaga would have been in imemorial times, not able to find a worthy champion like Shujinko to gather the kamidogu all this time. Even Rain would be millions of years old if we go by his MK9 vignette and the War between Edenia and Shao Kahn wasn't exactly 10.000 years ago.
Maybe when we say the numeber "1 million" it doesn't seem a lot, but if you really think about it, 100 years is already a long time. The wise masters of the shaolin are almost 100 years and they are very old. 1.000 years is almost only for great characters in the lore, like Shang Tsung or probably Bo'Rai Cho. Goro is 2.000 years. 10.000 years....well, imagine how much knowledge someone would have in 10.000 years. We have Kitana, the other Edenians, only Raiden, Shao Kahn, Shinnok, Fujin and Reiko are older than this. Ok, Sindel and King Jerrod in the form of Ermac too.
But to go further than 50.000 years...... there aren't even record of human civilization on Earth more than 10.000 years ago. To go 100.000 years into the past, or 500.000 years or 1 million years is such a long time that those characters wouldn;t be humans anymore, they'd have transcended to something else, something with much more knowledge. Let alone not 1 million, but 45-65 million years into the past. So, 45 or 65 times that gigantic number 1 million (which by itself is unthinkable in terms of human life and knowledge).......how can we imagine that Reiko or Fujin are that old?
tarkatanbloodline
New member
I'd also like to know what was Shao's obsession with Sindel. Seems like he wanted her more than the realm itself, tbf.
Kuwabara16
Member
I think it was more of a package deal. Shao Kahn wants all realms and has been invading realms, but Queen Sindel was not only beautiful but incredibly powerful. He probably wanted her as one of his generals and she was incredibly powerful before she got the boost by Shang Tsung.
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Jion_Wansu
Active member
We don't know what Shao Kahn is. Is he a dragon in human form like the dragons from Dungeons & Dragons and Dragonlance who transform into human forms? Shao Kahn has dragon like eyes and they say that he is at least 10,000 years old or more.
That isn't the first time the amulet was known about and so forth. Around the time of The Great Kung Lao and Shang Tsung (over 500 years ago), Shinnok's amulet was known!!!
Shang Tsung retrieved it himself or had someone retrieve it for him when he absorbed The Great Kung Lao's soul. He placed an exact duplicate in its place and gave the amulet to Shao Kahn.
Quan Chi got the fake amulet from Bi Han and gave the fake one to Shinnok.
Quan Chi got the real amulet from Shao Kahn when Shao Kahn was defeated.
Quan Chi told Shinnok that he gave him an exact duplicate (possibly made by Shang Tsung).
Everyone knows the rest of the amulet stories.
Let's also consult the original instruction manual of Mythologies.
And there you have it.
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That isn't the first time the amulet was known about and so forth. Around the time of The Great Kung Lao and Shang Tsung (over 500 years ago), Shinnok's amulet was known!!!
Shang Tsung retrieved it himself or had someone retrieve it for him when he absorbed The Great Kung Lao's soul. He placed an exact duplicate in its place and gave the amulet to Shao Kahn.
Quan Chi got the fake amulet from Bi Han and gave the fake one to Shinnok.
Quan Chi got the real amulet from Shao Kahn when Shao Kahn was defeated.
Quan Chi told Shinnok that he gave him an exact duplicate (possibly made by Shang Tsung).
Everyone knows the rest of the amulet stories.
mattteo
New member
Hey there! Thanks for reviving this fine thread 1 year later
I don't see though how Shang Tsung could have stolen the real Amulet. It was hidden in the Temple of Elements and nobody got to it before Bi Han did in MK Mythologies
And we do kind of know what Shao Kahn is from the Deception konquest. He was like Raiden once, a Protector God.
Jion_Wansu
Active member
Is Shao Kahn a Dragon in human form like Pyros/Ember from Dragonlance? Or Immolatus:
It was when Raistlin first encountered Immolatus that a new ability of Raistlin's cursed eyes was revealed. Upon encountering a dragon garbed in mortal guise, he could see partially through its transformation. In the book Brothers in Arms, the first encounter with Immolatus is described as such
After all, Daniel Pesina did mention that him and his friends (early MK team) are avid fans of Dungeons & Dragons.
If it wasn't for Dungeons & Dragons then there would be no Mortal Kombat like how we see it from 1992 until today. Just the lore/story lines of the Mortal Kombat franchise is deep. Better than any other fighting game to date and possibly better than most RPG games and action/adventure games to date!!!
Speaking of MK guest characters, why not:
It was when Raistlin first encountered Immolatus that a new ability of Raistlin's cursed eyes was revealed. Upon encountering a dragon garbed in mortal guise, he could see partially through its transformation. In the book Brothers in Arms, the first encounter with Immolatus is described as such
After all, Daniel Pesina did mention that him and his friends (early MK team) are avid fans of Dungeons & Dragons.
If it wasn't for Dungeons & Dragons then there would be no Mortal Kombat like how we see it from 1992 until today. Just the lore/story lines of the Mortal Kombat franchise is deep. Better than any other fighting game to date and possibly better than most RPG games and action/adventure games to date!!!
Speaking of MK guest characters, why not: