Questions about Tourney Players and Outcomes.

Matt Wilson

Matt Wilson

New member
I recently came across the CEO MK 9 2011 Finals series between LB Chris G and EMP Tom Brady. For those of you who DIDN'T catch it or watch it live via streaming, here you go:


I had a few questions I wanted to ask the TRMK community in regards to this video. Please give me your honest opinion for the following questions, and no trolling please. Thank you. :D

1. Do you think tournaments hold any grounds as to who people select as their main characters? For example; after certain tournaments, do you find an influx of certain characters that you didn't see too much of before, but now suddenly everyone wants to play simply because that character won the tournament? Between Sub-Zero, Reptile, Kung Lao, or even Noob Saibot, do you think tournament outcomes effect player choice?

2. Do you think people should stick with their main throughout an entire tournament bracket or match up, like Chris G did? Or should they be 'Tier Whores' like Tom Brady, who switch out of constant frustration or fear of losing?

Personally, I didn't like how he kept switching to different characters at the end. You could tell his gameplay was starting to get really sketchy as he headed into unfamiliar territory with those characters. He played Noob Saibot like..well...a noob, and this isn't like the first tournament he won at the beginning of May where he spammed Noob's clones to keep a distance against Liu Kang. I think after a few solid months of gameplay people are used to those kind of tactics and tricks and they won't fall for them, especially at a tournament level like that. Besides, he got owned by Chris' Reptile either way, which means that Chris had a lot of training under his belt and knew how to handle anything that was thrown his way with Reptile, or Tom Brady just started sucking toward the end. I'm going with the former before I settle on the ladder.

3. What do you think of the one commentator? (you know who I'm talking about)

He was commentating for that one tournament at the beginning of May, and he was back again for the CEO tournament. What bothered me most about this guy at first was he had no idea what he was talking about, or anything true grasp of the gameplay or character mechanics. That, and he has an annoying voice and used to scream a lot. Now, it's as if he's read the youtube comments against him, so although he nows seems to understand the game for the most part (and he no longer screams....loudly), he was being completely biased from the beginning of the match up. When you're commentating, you gotta keep it professional. You can't pick and choose sides and root for a certain player throughout the entire match up. That'd be like watching football and having the commentators stand by a certain team throughout the game, and having choice words for the opposing team when they start to win. It just seems like this guy can never get it right, and it's high time MK tournaments start looking for some decent commentators.

4. Do you think Tom Brady is overrated as a player? Who do you think is 'the best' player as of right now in MK9?

This is just an honest opinion, and it's not questioning his skill level obviously because he is either winning tournaments of in the top finals brackets. But, it just seems like he gets a little too much hype before the start of each match, and there are a lot of up and coming players that seem to trump him toward the finals. Just saying.

Post your answers below.
 
MY OPINION
1. yes i had picked up reptile and not even an hour later i find that chris g won using him he's all i seen online for weeks. if raiden wins evo i'm gonna be pissed he's the only one that i havent seen that much. and i'm trying to learn him i'm running out of fighters here.


2. yes it should be required in the main part of the tournament so that there is no cheap winns when it gets down to the final sixteen u should only be able to pick one fighter.


3.i dont like any commentator they arent funny they are unwanted.


4.yes i hate how people think he's god he tested a game and puts videos up on youtube and helps people good but its not that great i mean dont we already do every thing he does.
he helps thats good but it's not a reason to act like ur shit dont stink. he needs to lower him self to play online.

well i think that would be who ever winns evo.
 
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I've always been the poster boy for sticking behind your favorite/main. I find the tier whores and style hoppers to be the most disgusting thing in gaming. These people simply do what other people are doing. They aren't experimenting, they aren't figuring things out on their own, and most importantly they aren't putting in the hours to learn a character. They simply watch these streams, see something they like, and start using that character EXACTLY like how the player on the stream is. It's annoying and shows how lazy people truly are.

Like Tim Static always tells me, people are gonna use who they feel they have the best chance to win with. And I'm not against that. I just don't like the people who play characters just because they are the "best" or the most seen at tourneys. I will use Johnny even if I'm laughed at.
 
DCP said:
I've always been the poster boy for sticking behind your favorite/main. I find the tier whores and style hoppers to be the most disgusting thing in gaming. These people simply do what other people are doing. They aren't experimenting, they aren't figuring things out on their own, and most importantly they aren't putting in the hours to learn a character. They simply watch these streams, see something they like, and start using that character EXACTLY like how the player on the stream is. It's annoying and shows how lazy people truly are.

Like Tim Static always tells me, people are gonna use who they feel they have the best chance to win with. And I'm not against that. I just don't like the people who play characters just because they are the "best" or the most seen at tourneys. I will use Johnny even if I'm laughed at.
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No, I disagree DCP. Internet is a great tool at discovering things that you haven't learned before. You defiantly need more than one main also because it makes you harder to read and to be perfectly honest there are so many characters with different traits its almost a shame not to learn a few of them. I honestly think that people that spend there time with one character are really at a disadvantage. Those are the people I am usually whippin online because they become so predictable.
 
mkfanfrever said:
No, I disagree DCP. Internet is a great tool at discovering things that you haven't learned before. You defiantly need more than one main also because it makes you harder to read and to be perfectly honest there are so many characters with different traits its almost a shame not to learn a few of them. I honestly think that people that spend there time with one character are really at a disadvantage. Those are the people I am usually whippin online because they become so predictable.
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I don't disagree there. There's no doubt the Internet is a great tool for discovering new things. What I'm saying is, I dislike the people who see the tourney streams and only decide to play a character because T.Brady is. Or because Brady said they are good. Or because these certain person won this tournament with this certain character. It'd be like me seeing Michaelangelo win ReveLAtions and just because of that I decide to main Kabal. Or because Jwong won PDP with Kung Lao I'm gonna start using him. Its cool to look up combos, strategies, etc. No harm in that at all. But maining a character just because you seen somebody else do well with them is lame.

I can honestly say I'm garbage with everyone but Johnny. You can ask those who have played me/beat me. Circus, 13, Saibot, Axl, AMES, how predictable is my Johnny Cage? I can guarantee you every fight is a new experience with me. I very rarely make the same mistake twice. And once I have your strategy down, it all over. Don't be fooled you can be very successful with one character. Will you have to work harder? Yes. But it's worth it in the end. That isn't to say I don't put in the time to play other character though. How do you think I get so good at finding character weaknesses? Spending a week on a certain character, trying them out, and finding out which moves are safe and which aren't. That way, when I come across a good player online, I have a decent outline of what to expect.
 
mkfanfrever said:
No, I disagree DCP. Internet is a great tool at discovering things that you haven't learned before. You defiantly need more than one main also because it makes you harder to read and to be perfectly honest there are so many characters with different traits its almost a shame not to learn a few of them. I honestly think that people that spend there time with one character are really at a disadvantage. Those are the people I am usually whippin online because they become so predictable.
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I disagree. I've been to many tournaments in my time for other games. The people who I noticed dominating the most in alot of the games I've played are people who stuck to 1 main (one that can handle most everything obviously). I've had many pros tell me That in SSBM the reason I was left behind in skill. I use to be on par with them, but because they stuck it out with 1 character, They eventually surpassed me and I was left in the dust because I learned like 5 characters because I went on what people told me "oh Falcon rapes marth" So when I fought marth i played falcon. Oh Marth rapes fox. So when I played against a fox i chose Marth.

If I had just stuck it out with 1 higher tier character (this games tier list is slightly more important because there are no updated patches, so it's better to go mid tier +) I could have been dominating. Because no matter how much you play and think you've learned enough. there is something you don't know.

for like 10 years. Falco mains secondary fox just for jigglypuff. Dr.peepee the most recent person winning tournaments plays falco... and he did not change to fox fighting hungrybox(Jigglypuff) he labbed it up HARD and learned everything.. and the counter to EVERYTHING. and now he's beating hungrybox, and he didn't change characters to do it.

It's up to you to be unpredictable. If you're predictable with 1 character, that means you still haven't put in enough time to sculpt it into a machine. Doesn't mean it's time to change... it means its time to put in more work for it.
 
1) Yes

2) I think that's just personal...one can main more than 1 character and be very good.
Brady disappointed me much in the end when he chose Kung Lao lol...so stupid. I guess he was too much frustrated and couldn't think properly lol

3) He is not a good commentator...

4) Tom Brady is really good (when he is calm), but isn't god like someone thinks.
 
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I do not find the commentator's voice annoying, And I think it's at the right level of "excitement" tone in his voice. I do agree that commentators should avoid cheering for one side. I also think he has greatly improved since PowerUP. If someone is improving... why would you get rid of them? that's like having a complete screw up start working for you, but you let him know. After some time passes, he learns and makes maybe 1 or 2 little mistakes. And you're like OH TIME FOR HIM TO GET FIRED. He is obviously improving. Now is not the time to change.

2.) I hate commentators that make me laugh. Sure I like to laugh.. but when they are saying so much funny stuff that i can't even concentrate on whats happening in the match it annoys me lol.

3.) I like commentators. I hate just watching two pros fight with silence feels empty. the commentators help me feel like I'm there at the tournament watching it with them.
 
Critical-Limit said:
I disagree. I've been to many tournaments in my time for other games. The people who I noticed dominating the most in alot of the games I've played are people who stuck to 1 main (one that can handle most everything obviously). I've had many pros tell me That in SSBM the reason I was left behind in skill. I use to be on par with them, but because they stuck it out with 1 character, They eventually surpassed me and I was left in the dust because I learned like 5 characters because I went on what people told me "oh Falcon rapes marth" So when I fought marth i played falcon. Oh Marth rapes fox. So when I played against a fox i chose Marth.

If I had just stuck it out with 1 higher tier character (this games tier list is slightly more important because there are no updated patches, so it's better to go mid tier +) I could have been dominating. Because no matter how much you play and think you've learned enough. there is something you don't know.

for like 10 years. Falco mains secondary fox just for jigglypuff. Dr.peepee the most recent person winning tournaments plays falco... and he did not change to fox fighting hungrybox(Jigglypuff) he labbed it up HARD and learned everything.. and the counter to EVERYTHING. and now he's beating hungrybox, and he didn't change characters to do it.

It's up to you to be unpredictable. If you're predictable with 1 character, that means you still haven't put in enough time to sculpt it into a machine. Doesn't mean it's time to change... it means its time to put in more work for it.
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I defiantly see where you and DCP are coming from but I guess in my experience which is online which is a whole different beast. I have done really well at switching characters.I decide to battle a person online for a while and really see that my opponent has a idea of my character strenths and weaknesses or maybe has a certain character that one of my mains is terribly matched up with, then I will usually switch to a different character that I feel is better suited. I have ranked high at Tekken online because I feel that I learned a handful of characters which helped me be less predictable. I will admit though there is a handful of people that can play well with one character but its just not the best strategy in my experience.
 
mkfanfrever said:
I defiantly see where you and DCP are coming from but I guess in my experience which is online which is a whole different beast. I have done really well at switching characters.I decide to battle a person online for a while and really see that my opponent has a idea of my character strenths and weaknesses or maybe has a certain character that one of my mains is terribly matched up with, then I will usually switch to a different character that I feel is better suited. I have ranked high at Tekken online because I feel that I learned a handful of characters which helped me be less predictable. I will admit though there is a handful of people that can play well with one character but its just not the best strategy in my experience.
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I know what you are saying. I'm not saying it's impossible to play multiple characters. Sorry if I keep referencing SSBM, but MK9 hasn't sculpted enough gameplay for me to use examples in this game.

But M2k(mains Fox/marth/Shiek) all at a equally high level and he was king(aka the best) for like 2 years straight. No one could touch him. But... this guy put in RIDICULOUS amounts of time into the game. Someone like me should not have been attempting let alone 5 mains lol. Mango on the other hand has (Fox/Falco/Jiggz/Falcon) His falcon isn't as good as his other 3 but I could see him using it for specific match ups.

So by no means is it impossible. But... the other top 20 ish in the world at this game(SSBM). almost all of them stick to 1 character.

When it comes to online... Lets say I play ermac/Jade/noob saibot. I fight a kunglao, I use jade and he beats me. But he beats me because his friend/sparring partner also mains jade so he knows the match up better than me. I change to ermac. lets pretend he's only played a few of them. I beat him, and I think it's because I'm "less predictable" well ermac does play different from Jade. So obviously all his reading on your jade didn't help.

But I think the loss of his game truly was depicted by his lack of ermac knowledge. Not so much as you being unpredictable by different character switches.

I have a really good low tier character I mained in SSBM. and it outperformed my top tiers against pros occasionally. ONLY BECAUSE the low tier i mained was EXTREMELY uncommon. Only like 8 of us in the world lol. So I was relying on his lack of matchup knowledge everytime I busted out that character. My character was only unpredictable because my opponent didn't have enough experience with it.
 
I only switch character online because to me its just friendly exhibition and learning. If its a competitve match or a match in a tourney then I will probably just tuff it out with Sub-Zero but then again I have 3 mains Sub being the one I use relentlessly. The more I stick with just Sub-Zero the more I find myself learning better and being able to adapt to the combat changes my opponent presents against me. So DCP does have a good point. You choose other characters you might have that ability to fool your opponent but chances are your opponent has stuck with one character and knows how to use that character against every character in the game. I dont care for these Tier lists! I think you just need to learn your character and you should be able to put up a good fight against any of the other characters
 
I defiantly see where you and DCP are coming from but I guess in my experience which is online which is a whole different beast. I have done really well at switching characters.I decide to battle a person online for a while and really see that my opponent has a idea of my character strenths and weaknesses or maybe has a certain character that one of my mains is terribly matched up with, then I will usually switch to a different character that I feel is better suited. I have ranked high at Tekken online because I feel that I learned a handful of characters which helped me be less predictable. I will admit though there is a handful of people that can play well with one character but its just not the best strategy in my experience.
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Everyone's experience is different. I've had plenty of 'mains'....first it was Scorpion, who I thought I had mastered, but since he is such a common match up online, most people know how to counter most of his move sets instantly. Then I switched to Sektor, who I liked for the most part, but I didn't feel comfortable knowing that TU was his BnB for most stringed combos, and I don't like chancing a TU when someone is constantly turtling the entire match. So I eventually settled on Sub-Zero, and although I'm far from being amazing with him, he has all the tools and utilities I want in a character, so I'm sticking with him until I master him.

Sure, knowing a handful of characters makes you less predictable, but I'd rather master one character until I'm totally unpredictable with him/her. Like DCP said, he's pretty unpredictable with JC, but that doesn't mean that some match ups aren't hard for him to play against, but it doesn't mean that you should rotate through the character list everytime you lose either.

Chris G owned pretty hard with Reptile. After every match, even I as a spectator barely knew what he was going to do next, let alone saying "Yeah, as long as he sticks with Reptile I'll read him eventually." It's my firm belief that if you truly dedicate yourself to one person and know all their ins and outs, your going to be just as lethal, if not more lethal than people who know 2-3+ characters. But that is just my opinion though. I think after you've mastered one it's always a great idea to, at the very least, have a second best character as to break up the monotony.
 
Matt Wilson said:
Everyone's experience is different. I've had plenty of 'mains'....first it was Scorpion, who I thought I had mastered, but since he is such a common match up online, most people know how to counter most of his move sets instantly. Then I switched to Sektor, who I liked for the most part, but I didn't feel comfortable knowing that TU was his BnB for most stringed combos, and I don't like chancing a TU when someone is constantly turtling the entire match. So I eventually settled on Sub-Zero, and although I'm far from being amazing with him, he has all the tools and utilities I want in a character, so I'm sticking with him until I master him.

Sure, knowing a handful of characters makes you less predictable, but I'd rather master one character until I'm totally unpredictable with him/her. Like DCP said, he's pretty unpredictable with JC, but that doesn't mean that some match ups aren't hard for him to play against, but it doesn't mean that you should rotate through the character list everytime you lose either.

Chris G owned pretty hard with Reptile. After every match, even I as a spectator barely knew what he was going to do next, let alone saying "Yeah, as long as he sticks with Reptile I'll read him eventually." It's my firm belief that if you truly dedicate yourself to one person and know all their ins and outs, your going to be just as lethal, if not more lethal than people who know 2-3+ characters. But that is just my opinion though. I think after you've mastered one it's always a great idea to, at the very least, have a second best character as to break up the monotony.
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This sums up my thoughts perfectly. When I first got the game I made my way thru the characters until I got to Mileena. Her moveset and my playstyle meshed together well, and thus I had a main to use and practice with. I don't care if she doesn't fare well in tornys or if people think she's crappy or even if I get owned by what people call a top-tier character. Doesn't change the fact that she's the character who feels the most natural to me to use. If I lose, I lose and it's back to the drawing board...or practice arena to be more precise to get better prepared.

Quality over quantity every time.
 
1) Maybe, some people are lazy, others, cannot decide easily what character to main, and others, personal preference .... you have all kinds of people and players XD

2) I think it's a good idea to have a backup character, not more than one additional option, but, overall, stick with the character you play the best, if possible

3) Well, commentator is doing his job, good or bad, hehe XD

4) He is not the "best of the best", but, surely he is among the best players nowadays, anyway, sometimes he is kocky and arrogant, and, this explain why he did not win the last 2 tournaments .... sometimes he seems to underestimate others great top high level players ..... Michaelangelo and Chris G are better than Tom Brady.
 
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you all make pretty valid points about mastering your mains. I would really love to join a tournament because I feel that I would do well. If I ever do maybe I will take your guys advice and just play with my main which is Raiden. Booo!!!! I know. LoL
 
mkfanfrever said:
you all make pretty valid points about mastering your mains. I would really love to join a tournament because I feel that I would do well. If I ever do maybe I will take your guys advice and just play with my main which is Raiden. Booo!!!! I know. LoL
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No one here should boo you for that man :P
It's your character, they have to learn raiden sooner or later :D
 
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