how important is balance in fighting games?

Raddus said:
Capcom games are horribly imbalanced. I like games where you see a majority of the roster being used regularly.
Click to expand...

You're kidding right? Also you are confusing character popularity with effectiveness of a character. Scorpion is used quite a bit, does that mean he is overpowered? I don't think so. Barring UMK3 and MK2011, MK series has not been with without major balance issues, to put it gently.
 
FlawlessVictor said:
You're kidding right? Also you are confusing character popularity with effectiveness of a character. Scorpion is used quite a bit, does that mean he is overpowered? I don't think so. Barring UMK3 and MK2011, MK series has not been with without major balance issues, to put it gently.
Click to expand...


I agree, outside of MK9 and UMK3 they were not balanced. I'm not confusing popularity with balance. Capcom games are just not balanced. Japanese games in general are not, as it is a nation steeped in pop culture craze. So over there, popularity and balance go hand in hand. Whatever character is most popular will get the most love in game development or any kinds of post-release balance tweaks. If any at all.
 
Balance in any competitive game is of optimum importance. Whether we're talking about a FPS or a Fighter, we all have different playing styles and it just wouldn't be fun if you have an incredibly fast fighter that also happens to be very strong vs a fast/incredibly weak fighter lets say (Vega in SFII).
 
if you want unbalanced characters go play smash bros brawl (lol ike, toon link)


and the arguments about street fighter and MK are pointless, they are both balanced games.
yes,street fighter is boring and dull compared to MK, but thats irrelevant. they are still balanced games.
 
Sky Valley said:
if you want unbalanced characters go play smash bros brawl (lol ike, toon link)


and the arguments about street fighter and MK are pointless, they are both balanced games.
yes,street fighter is boring and dull compared to MK, but thats irrelevant. they are still balanced games.
Click to expand...

Super smash bros. for the gamecube was intense as hell, I wish I still had a gamecube
 
SSF4 is an extremely balanced GAME (mechanics, playstyles). But the problem in AE is that A and B tiers are overrused and a lot of them completely own C and D tier characters.

Third Strike was worse though. In that game you had: Yun, Chun Li, Ken and the rest was pretty much 2 tiers below.

Pre-patch MK9 was WAY less balanced than AE imo. Post-patch it's hard to tell yet (too soon) but it's pretty close. I think in the end MK9 will end up the most balanced fighter for sure.

I think balance is very important in fighting games. But balance shouldn't equal bland playstyles and characters and uniform specials and normals.
 
As long as Mortal Kombat doesn't become the super unbalanced Marvel vs Crapcom 3. There's a reason why you only fight the same people like Dante, Wolverine, Wesker, Deadpool, Zero, and the Hulk online with their cheap ass combos and all the other characters are left in the dark.
 
Something else worth noting is that MK is built around "full" characters whereas Japanese fighters ten to have strong archetypes for characters.

For example MK characters pretty much all have viable combo starters, punishes, anti-air, air to air and mixup. Not having those is a large disadvantage to an mk character. Even from there, many characters have a projectile, teleport or other anti-zoning tool. Basically characters are all sort of based around the same general idea, with only a few characters on the extremes, such as noob the zoner and jax the grappler, and these character that specialize tend to fit into a lower tier as they sacrifice things that the rest of the cast has.

A japanese fighter such as Street Fighter or Blazblue has much more specific roles, characters are built with specific strengths and weaknesses. For example in Blazblue the Lambda vs Tager matchup is an interesting one. Lambda is generally considered slightly favored in this mathcup, yet to win the lambda player must not make a wrong read during their zoning or the Tager player can pretty much destroy them in one combo. Tager fits firmly in the grappler archetype, he has a very hard time getting in on most characters, but he has many command grabs for close up situations that deal ludicrous amount of damage. A high risk/high reward character. Lambda however is a zoner that against Tager, is High Risk/Low Reward, yet is still seen as favored due to the extreme differences in the character designs. With both players being skilled, the Tager may never get close enough to the Lambda player to deal big damage.
 
Edenian Royalty said:
As long as Mortal Kombat doesn't become the super unbalanced Marvel vs Crapcom 3. There's a reason why you only fight the same people like Dante, Wolverine, Wesker, Deadpool, Zero, and the Hulk online with their cheap ass combos and all the other characters are left in the dark.
Click to expand...

another point i was making about street fighter. there is no way the game is balanced and everybody picks the same 4 or 5 characters.
 
chessmaster said:
another point i was making about street fighter. there is no way the game is balanced and everybody picks the same 4 or 5 characters.
Click to expand...

Chessmaster sorry to break it to you, but you absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
At all.

If you knew anything about SSF4 you'd know that its one of the most balanced fighting games to come out in years. And I could count on one hand how many pro players use Akuma and Ryu. I don't know where you're getting these things you're saying dude.
 
NothingRhymesWithCircus said:
Chessmaster sorry to break it to you, but you absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
At all.

If you knew anything about SSF4 you'd know that its one of the most balanced fighting games to come out in years. And I could count on one hand how many pro players use Akuma and Ryu. I don't know where you're getting these things you're saying dude.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree. I may not like SF but everyone is used. I just hate MvC3
 
NothingRhymesWithCircus said:
Chessmaster sorry to break it to you, but you absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
At all.

If you knew anything about SSF4 you'd know that its one of the most balanced fighting games to come out in years. And I could count on one hand how many pro players use Akuma and Ryu. I don't know where you're getting these things you're saying dude.
Click to expand...

********. half the roster i have never seen used in a tournament. and between that half, it seems like ryu at least is in every other match.
 
chessmaster said:
another point i was making about street fighter. there is no way the game is balanced and everybody picks the same 4 or 5 characters.
Click to expand...

NothingRhymesWithCircus said:
Chessmaster sorry to break it to you, but you absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
At all.

If you knew anything about SSF4 you'd know that its one of the most balanced fighting games to come out in years. And I could count on one hand how many pro players use Akuma and Ryu. I don't know where you're getting these things you're saying dude.
Click to expand...

chessmaster said:
********. half the roster i have never seen used in a tournament. and between that half, it seems like ryu at least is in every other match.
Click to expand...




List of results of all the Majors in the past year


Final Round 2011

1. DMG.PR Rog (Balrog)
2. TTC.Tokido (Akuma)
3. TFA.WolfKrone (C. Viper)
4. EG.Justin Wong (Adon, Rufus, Balrog)
5. RyRy (Sagat, C. Viper)
5. EMP.Sanford Kelly (Sagat)
7. Mike Ross (E. Honda)
7. EG.Ricky Ortiz (Rufus)



PowerUp 2011

1. WolfKrone (C. Viper)
2. DMG|PR Balrog (Balrog)
3. EG|Justin Wong (Adon, Rufus)
4. EMP|PerfectLegend (Akuma)
5. DMG|Inthul (Fei Long)
5. CCG|Air (Ryu)
7. TS|Arturo Sanchez (Dhalsim, Rose)
7. TS|Min (E. Honda, M. Bison)


UFGT7 2011

1. EG|Justin Wong (Adon, Rufus)
2. Alex Valle (Ryu)
3. DMG|PR Balrog (Balrog)
4. EG|Ricky Ortiz (Rufus)
5. BLG|Juicebox (Abel)
5. Banana Ken (Ken)
7. fLoE (Rufus, C. Viper)
7. WolfKrone (C. Viper)


MAT8 2011

1- Wolfkrone (C.Viper)
2- EMP_Dieminion (Guile, Guy)
3- Snafoo (Dhalsim)
4- Chi-Rithy (Chun Li)
5- TS_Sabin (Rose)

CEO 2011

1st) TTC Tokido (Akuma)
2nd) TS Arturo Sanchez (Dhalsim, Rose)
3rd) Mike Ross (E. Honda)
4th) Marn(Yun)
5th) TTC Gamerbee (Akuma, Fei Long, Adon)
5th) Floe (Yang)
7th) BananaKen (Ken)
7th) EG Justin Wong (Yang)

Revelations 2011

ReveLAtions

1. MCZ Daigo "The Beast" Umehara (Yun)
2. Topanga. Mago MCZ (Fei-Long)
3. Hsien "BionicArm" Chang (Yun)
4. BT Latif (C. Viper)
5. Infiltration (Akuma)
5. Clakey D (Ibuki)

=============================================================

It's not cool to just say stuff based on what you glance and see without really knowing what you're talking about dude.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm serious when I'm saying you seriously are barking up the wrong tree saying that A) SSF4 is unbalanced and B) that more than half of people use Ryu and Akuma.

Also realize that just because you see certain characters in tournaments, it doesn't mean that the characters not represented aren't equally amazing. If you would know a little more about SSF4 you'd know that it's actually incredibly balanced and that's what NRS is trying to mimic with MK9.
MK9 is also incredibly balanced. Even though people still aren't seeing some specific characters in tournaments doesn't mean that they aren't capable of doing so. It just means that the top players like using other characters instead of those characters.

The best player in Florida right now is a Blanka player. The 3rd best player in Italy uses Makoto. Ibuki is becoming the most widely used character in common tournaments now in days. Just because this isn't widely known doesn't mean it's not true. Practically no one uses Ryu in majors.

I wouldn't of gone through the trouble of posting this all but you straight up said what I posted was ********....
 
Last edited:
Way to pwn that noop lmao.

Just forget about that guy Circus. After reading a few of his posts here and over at TYM I'm pretty sure he's just a troll talking out of his ass.
 
SSF4 is balanced, some guys with Rufus and Balrog can destroy you, even if you pick Ryu or any other character with projectile move ...... damn, even Dalshim , that never was a fan favorite before, now in SF4/SSF4, can kick some major ass ! People sooner or later can discover potential in other characters.

MK 2011 is balanced too, the fact that Tom Brady, Justin Wong, or any other top player don't pick Sheeva, CSZ, Sindel, Jade etc in a tournament, does not necessary means that, these characters stand no chance, none chance at all , to be well played, well executed, and, find ways to win a tournament ...... I believe that, since this game is still fresh , and after one year or two, maybe people will along the time, explore more others characters, and show how to play them properly .....

When the first top player starts to develop interesting in a less used character, and , explore this character a lot, take the chances, take the risk to use this character in tournament, and do well, next, others players perhaps could try too .... who knows ?

Anyway, I would love to see the pros exploring CSZ possibilities and master him to be used in tournament ..... Seriously, IMO, CSZ has chances to have potential to play well in tournaments.
 
yautjared said:
When the first top player starts to develop interesting in a less used character, and , explore this character a lot, take the chances, take the risk to use this character in tournament, and do well, next, others players perhaps could try too .... who knows ?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot of people will start jumping on the Reptile and Kabal bandwagon after seeing such an amazing performance by Chris G and Michaelangelo.

That's often what happens unfortunately. People don't get interrested in lower tier characters until they see a good player using him.


yautjared said:
Anyway, I would love to see the pros exploring CSZ possibilities and master him to be used in tournament ..... Seriously, IMO, CSZ has chances to have potential to play well in tournaments.
Click to expand...
Cyber Sub doesn't really have "potential". By this I mean almost everyone is already aware of how good he is. A lot of casual players say he's bottom tier but truth is they just don't know what they're talking about. Almost every pro I know puts him in A+ tier. And anyone who has seen a high level player use CSZ knows just how awesome he is.

REO was using him at PowerUp and did very good vs Floe, THTB, PL and Tom Brady. So it's not potential at that point, it's pretty much a fact. :)


Edenian Royalty said:
I subbed to your youtube just cause I hate Raiden xD
Click to expand...
lol, good to hear. :)
 
Last edited:
Vulcan Hades said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot of people will start jumping on the Reptile and Kabal bandwagon after seeing such an amazing performance by Chris G and Michaelangelo.
Click to expand...
michaelangelo was using that kabal glitch that is going to be removed eventually. then they are right back on somebody else's bandwagon.

NothingRhymesWithCircus said:
It's not cool to just say stuff based on what you glance and see without really knowing what you're talking about dude.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm serious when I'm saying you seriously are barking up the wrong tree saying that A) SSF4 is unbalanced and B) that more than half of people use Ryu and Akuma.

Also realize that just because you see certain characters in tournaments, it doesn't mean that the characters not represented aren't equally amazing. If you would know a little more about SSF4 you'd know that it's actually incredibly balanced and that's what NRS is trying to mimic with MK9.
MK9 is also incredibly balanced. Even though people still aren't seeing some specific characters in tournaments doesn't mean that they aren't capable of doing so. It just means that the top players like using other characters instead of those characters.

The best player in Florida right now is a Blanka player. The 3rd best player in Italy uses Makoto. Ibuki is becoming the most widely used character in common tournaments now in days. Just because this isn't widely known doesn't mean it's not true. Practically no one uses Ryu in majors.

I wouldn't of gone through the trouble of posting this all but you straight up said what I posted was ********....
Click to expand...

there was a lot of ryu and akumas on that list like i said.
 
chessmaster said:
michaelangelo was using that kabal glitch that is going to be removed eventually. then they are right back on somebody else's bandwagon.



there was a lot of ryu and akumas on that list like i said.
Click to expand...

Chessmaster....... sigh.........

ReveLAtions didn't have the block infinite in the tournament. It was taken out. Michealangelo and OnlineTony played legit amazing Kabal play. Dash blocking after F32 resets back to neutral instead of leaving you at advantage now. It's still a mixup because he you have to guess what he is going to do next, but its very escapable now. It was already patched.

And there aren't alot of Akumas and Ryus on that last buddy. I'm going to try and hold my tongue and not comment anymore in this thread dude, because you're just saying stuff based on assumptions and now you're saying that there's alot of top players that use Ryu and Akuma in the world even though I posted the list of this years Majors for you with their results.

2 People on that list main Ryu....
4 People on that list main Akuma....

I'm done dude.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top