Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN

[ttas]

Wow, this place exploded again. I thought the people adding all the crazy 1.5 suggestions constantly, were just going to be ignored. Instead there seems to be a big fight happening on here. I realize that tends to happen on message boards, but one of the last times these fights happened, someone had made the point that it looks bad a new visitor stopping in for the first time to read so many pages of fighting.

Now that being said, friendly "suggestions" that are within reason (minor things like adding Reptiles name) should be okay to suggest, all the creators of this project can say is yes or no. Be polite though people, don't bombard this place with 101 things you think they should be doing but aren't and then fight about it.

Geez, these guys are doing a hell of a good job here making this HD remake, whatever way they choose to do it.

 

[Bleed]

We are making small and logical changes where game play is not affected. These are subject to change depending on general feed back. The Skeleton will be changed to a lighter color. The blood on the spine is not locked in, I'll wait about a week before moving on.

Scorpion's fatality was not given the extra pause, because it was already done. Several people had worked on it, and it would be a pain to go back after that. If the idea was brought up earlier, I would have been more open to it. Depends what most of you like, how much of an effect it has on the game, and how much extra work it would take to make these changes.

Fire on Scorpion's head wasn't added because it's not something natural. It's a forced concept that he can function without.
Changing moves for Reptile would mess with the game play, and that's out of the question for this project.

 

[smoke.tetsu]

I'm reminded of how Sub-Zero's fatality was changed in style in the SEGA Genesis version of MK1 and I hope this version will stick closer to the way it was presented in the arcade but of course with more realism in the spine graphics and not so glean\grey. Also, there was some glitches with some of the faces particularly the ninjas when spine ripped and that's something that certainly shouldn't be emulated.. although I'm guessing they did it that way due to palette swapping difficulties back then.

BTW, in my opinion suggestions are fine but when they tell you no there's no use in going ape arguing about it. They've made it clear what their vision is. Much of the suggestions being made where already made and answered a while back too... some of it by me.. I was one of the people for having Reptile have his specific moves from MKII or later but I've accepted that it's not a part of the scope of this project.

 

[la_luna]

la luna not sure if you are around but I have what I think is a huge task for you if you are up to it. Can you pull HD resized graphics of every single blood animation in MK1? Everything from Raidens Fatality Head Explode to Johnny Cage Head Punch Fatality, Subzero's spine rip.

Along with Scorpions Spear Blood, Kano's Knife blood. High/Low punches, Backfist/Knee and Upper cuts? I want to start HDifying the Blood for the entire game.

If you can only get me stuff bit by bit that will work to. Whatever you have time for.

I think there's more work for coding blood than graphics but that's something interloko or Bleed will know much more about.
Here sprites of blood from the original game;

Every move that draws blood is a combination of these (duplicated and sometimes mirrored) and there are few variations for every move. I think that could be tricky for coders. For example, Uppercut uses animation no.3 and no.4 shown on the pictures. It triples no.4 and quadruples no.3 so there's more blood on the screen. Every time you do Uppercut blood behaves slightly differently - sometimes it flies wider, sometimes it stays together in the air. You won't get the same blood flying pattern 2 or 3 Uppercuts in a row, and it's like that for every move, even punches.

So I think you'd be best to remake blood based on individual sprites and not how it looks during moves (because it's different each time). I hope what I just mumbled here makes sense, it's almost morning here, gotta go to bed.

edit;
Here's resized;

http://i48.tinypic.com/34o8qgx.png
http://i50.tinypic.com/33e5s2b.png
http://i49.tinypic.com/mb4gmo.png

 

[ticroo]

How is it elitist to want to keep 95% of the game the same as the original? No one is arguing to keep Sub's spine rip looking like a "shitty metallic cork screw". I'm looking for one person who was in favor of that and I haven't seen it. So what you arguing about? This is not the same thing as fundamentally changing a fatality such as vellrrath's idea for Kano to cut open the victims body and rip the heart out. I'm sorry but that is a NEW fatality.

There are two categories of fans for this remake. Those who'd like this to be very similar to Street Figher HD Remix with essentially HD Graphics and Music/SFX and those who would like this to be an improvement over the original. Now "improvement" is totally subjective.
So since people keep thinking we are being jerks for wanting this game to stay true to the original or that we are being "elitist" let me set the record straight by giving you an example of what happens when we deviate too much from the original blue-print:

example:

Bleed creates a Raiden's fatality. Someone says man that looks awesome! Someone else says, nah it doesn't make sense...Raiden should have to unroll a carpet rub his feet on it really fast to build up static electricity (This is how it works; it was in issue 107 of the ultra rare Mortal Kombat smurfs comic which Tobias totally said was part of the MK universe at this Comic convention in 94). So Bleed changes it. Then someone else comes in and says you know I read that each character was supposed to have two fatalities in MK one but they didn't have time for it. Also Ed Boon is my uncle and he totally said it would be cool if Scorpion wrapped his harpoon around the opponents throat and choked him to death. Oh yeah and the electricity doesn't look real on Raiden's fatality..you guys need to get film of real electricity and then trace each frame to make it look REAL. Also did you add a glow to Raiden's face when the electricity goes across his hat? Then someone else comes in and says Raiden needs to be totally re-rendered his hat doesn't look right. Oh and Scorpions fire doesn't look real... you should get a real flame thrower and film that and then totally spend 300 hours rendering it with real fire dynamics to get it to look SUPER ULTRA real. Anything less than super realism and you guys should just kill yourselves because this project is totally dumb.

Hopefully you get the point. If we listen to every opinion in this forum Bleed, MrMos3s, Badmouse, Justin, Interloko and I would have quit long long ago. It isn't any fun to spend time on something and have everyone with their own opinion about how terrible it is. BUT, if we stick close to the source material then we have a road map for completion. We can then enhance things it bits and pieces as we see fit.

So we stick to the source material to maintain focus. Shooting for the original look and feel SHOULD be our #1 priority. Later on we can go back and enhance anything that clearly needs enhancing. So now you can't say you don't understand why we are looking to keep everything "tit for tat". This is a massive undertaking and by sticking to the source we can actually have a complete game to play sometime before we are all old and gray. That should be what everyone wants.

Everything you said here makes perfect sense and I, for one, totally support that. I do have a question, though, and it's regarding the gameplay. I posted it before, but no one bothered to reply. Since you mentioned Street Fighter HD, I was wondering will you tweak a gameplay a bit like it was done in SFHD? I'm talking about minor changes that would mean a lot in VS department. Like, alter hitboxes a little so that every character has proper anti-air attack (high kicks & uppercuts). Also, I noticed in Bleed's video, one where Sub and Scorp duke it out, that at the point blank range Sub's projectile whiffs (it passes right through Scorp). Will this be addressed? There are certain things in MK1 that badly need improvement. Cage's Ball Buster for one... Unlike MK2, here Cage can't combo into another attack afterwards. In fact, whether he hits or misses, while standing up he is vulnerable for quite a while making this move rather pointless. Perhaps this can be changed to allow Cage for an extra hit but with damage output heavily reduced. Or the blow (if succesfully delivered) can just push the opponent far enough so that Cage player isn't bound for a world of pain during the recovery. Maybe this is too much, I don't know... It's just a suggestion. I had an idea about slight change to Sonya and Liu Kang as well. Sonya's Ring Toss input could use change. In the arcade it's B+LP, B+LP though it would make more sense if it's just B, B + LP. Or you could make both methods work. As for Liu Kang, I feel like his projectile could use significant visual enhancement. It could be made to resemble the one from MK2. Please, let me know what you think about these suggestions. I see many people freaking out about Reptile's moves. I'm all for that he has the same specials he had in the original MK1, but if I may suggest a slight alteration? In MK1, when Reptile performs freeze, his ice is green (due to the palette swapping). Perhaps the properties of this move can be altered to suit the Reptile's Force Ball attack? You could leave the same speed, same appearance, but, on hit, it would do a chip damage and launch the opponent towards Reptile for further punishment. Since Reptile is to be an unplayable character, I don't think this would drastically change anything.

 

[arq_hawkin]

hello everyone, I can see we got a mexican stand up here..... well I just wanted to post my update on liu, already in max, ready to rigg

 

[thexx25]

>_>

Thanks Mike, but i knew it, of course (i perform this one very often on my PS Vita, even if my main character is Kano !)

I was talking about this fatality in the HD remake people are making here... the first test vids i've seen are incredible ! Characters and animation look so realistic ! This is a GREAT project ! :hail:
(and even MORE if you consider that NRS have tried to make a MK HD remake a couple of years ago, and fail !)

 

[NoNewbs]

Soooooo.... Is Reptile's Rape-ality going to be included in this or what????

 

[interloko]

There are certain things in MK1 that badly need improvement. Cage's Ball Buster for one... Unlike MK2, here Cage can't combo into another attack afterwards.

In MKII you can block after getting hit by Cage's nut punch.

Sonya's Ring Toss input could use change. In the arcade it's B+LP, B+LP though it would make more sense if it's just B, B + LP. Or you could make both methods work.

The right input is: LP,B,LP

In MK1, when Reptile performs freeze, his ice is green (due to the palette swapping).

In Arcade version Reptile's freeze is the same colour as Sub Zero's. In Sega Genesis/Megadrive is green

Edit:
@Calactyte: The projectiles are already resized?

 

[calactyte]

I totally get it. Thanks so much for pulling these for me laluna, You've been an asset to this project.

-Cal

I think there's more work for coding blood than graphics but that's something interloko or Bleed will know much more about.
Here sprites of blood from the original game;

Every move that draws blood is a combination of these (duplicated and sometimes mirrored) and there are few variations for every move. I think that could be tricky for coders. For example, Uppercut uses animation no.3 and no.4 shown on the pictures. It triples no.4 and quadruples no.3 so there's more blood on the screen. Every time you do Uppercut blood behaves slightly differently - sometimes it flies wider, sometimes it stays together in the air. You won't get the same blood flying pattern 2 or 3 Uppercuts in a row, and it's like that for every move, even punches.

So I think you'd be best to remake blood based on individual sprites and not how it looks during moves (because it's different each time). I hope what I just mumbled here makes sense, it's almost morning here, gotta go to bed.

edit;
Here's resized;

http://i48.tinypic.com/34o8qgx.png
http://i50.tinypic.com/33e5s2b.png
http://i49.tinypic.com/mb4gmo.png

 

[calactyte]

@interloko

No they aren't cropped or resized. If that is a pain for you to do then I can do it for you. Let me know since I would need la luna to provide me with images of all the projectiles at the correct scale.

In MKII you can block after getting hit by Cage's nut punch.


The right input is: LP,B,LP


In Arcade version Reptile's freeze is the same colour as Sub Zero's. In Sega Genesis/Megadrive is green

Edit:
@Calactyte: The projectiles are already resized?

 

[Bleed]

My updates will be a little slow for a minute, I'm catching up on some stuff right now, It's getting a little hard to keep up...

MKHD spine fatality
Cleaning up code for Scorpion, I'd like to put it out this year.
Animations for another project, Army type shooting game.
Going through some C++ tutorials, been lagging on these for a while but I have to learn it.
etc.

 

[DjangoJustin]

Liu looks good to me. Maybe a bit too much shading to define the abs and pecs, but that could be nitpicking.

 

[ticroo]

In MKII you can block after getting hit by Cage's nut punch.


The right input is: LP,B,LP


In Arcade version Reptile's freeze is the same colour as Sub Zero's. In Sega Genesis/Megadrive is green

Edit:
@Calactyte: The projectiles are already resized?

Whooops! I thought it's green for sure in the arcade version. Thanks for correcting me. I must have had Genesis version in mind. As for Cage, regardless whether you can block after being hit by his Ball Buster in MK2, in MK1 he's rather helpless during the recovery. And Sonya's RT input still seems a bit awkward.

 

[ttas]

Everything you said here makes perfect sense and I, for one, totally support that. I do have a question, though, and it's regarding the gameplay. I posted it before, but no one bothered to reply. Since you mentioned Street Fighter HD, I was wondering will you tweak a gameplay a bit like it was done in SFHD? I'm talking about minor changes that would mean a lot in VS department. Like, alter hitboxes a little so that every character has proper anti-air attack (high kicks & uppercuts). Also, I noticed in Bleed's video, one where Sub and Scorp duke it out, that at the point blank range Sub's projectile whiffs (it passes right through Scorp). Will this be addressed? There are certain things in MK1 that badly need improvement. Cage's Ball Buster for one... Unlike MK2, here Cage can't combo into another attack afterwards. In fact, whether he hits or misses, while standing up he is vulnerable for quite a while making this move rather pointless. Perhaps this can be changed to allow Cage for an extra hit but with damage output heavily reduced. Or the blow (if succesfully delivered) can just push the opponent far enough so that Cage player isn't bound for a world of pain during the recovery. Maybe this is too much, I don't know... It's just a suggestion. I had an idea about slight change to Sonya and Liu Kang as well. Sonya's Ring Toss input could use change. In the arcade it's B+LP, B+LP though it would make more sense if it's just B, B + LP. Or you could make both methods work. As for Liu Kang, I feel like his projectile could use significant visual enhancement. It could be made to resemble the one from MK2. Please, let me know what you think about these suggestions. I see many people freaking out about Reptile's moves. I'm all for that he has the same specials he had in the original MK1, but if I may suggest a slight alteration? In MK1, when Reptile performs freeze, his ice is green (due to the palette swapping). Perhaps the properties of this move can be altered to suit the Reptile's Force Ball attack? You could leave the same speed, same appearance, but, on hit, it would do a chip damage and launch the opponent towards Reptile for further punishment. Since Reptile is to be an unplayable character, I don't think this would drastically change anything.

I thought Johnny Cage's ball punch allowed you a few frames to do an uppercut after you do it? It could have just been MK2, but I think I have done it on MK1. But like I said I could be wrong. The command for Sonya's ring toss, I agree is a bit wonky. LP, B+LP is a little strange and the SNES version it's B+LP or B, B, LP I don't recall which one.

I agree it would be more comfortable to do B, B, LP instead of LP, B+LP, but whichever you guys want to do should be fine. I mean I know people have trouble in SF with Ryu doing the Haduken and the rising uppercut move but nobody ever changed it.

 

[calactyte]

Hey Bleed,

Should I be worried that you are losing focus? That's ALOT of stuff on your plate. Before we lose you to other personal projects can you truly finish Scorpion before the new year?

That would mean:

-Finishing him being Decapped animation.
-Posing his body for his Ending.
-Rendering Johnny Cage Face for Scorpions ending.

Then you can take the whole month of January to do your other work. Does that sound like something you can do? I'm drawing the blood sprites for Subzero's spine rip. Remember this project is NOTHING without you. So when you stop we might as well all quit.
So can we set this as a goal? Let us know, everyone here is counting on you.

My updates will be a little slow for a minute, I'm catching up on some stuff right now, It's getting a little hard to keep up...

MKHD spine fatality
Cleaning up code for Scorpion, I'd like to put it out this year.
Animations for another project, Army type shooting game.
Going through some C++ tutorials, been lagging on these for a while but I have to learn it.
etc.

 

[CARZ]

Okay, I think the arguments are valid and (as usual) you guys have the last word and the respect of us all for doing what nobody have ever done before.

Also, I do like the burned skeleton, Scorpion's eye color, bloody spine and Reptile's name. Those are smart changes...!

Edit: But I will still (silently and respectfully) disagree with Reptile having stolen moves until the day I die. Nevertheless I will not mention this anymore out of respect to the choices you guys have made... Eitherway, I will still enjoy all the other awesome aspects of this game, that is practically everything.

 

[smoke.tetsu]

(and even MORE if you consider that NRS have tried to make a MK HD remake a couple of years ago, and fail !)

I think the blame is better assigned to Other Ocean.... since they are the ones who worked on MKAK and it has the remains of what was going to be MKHD. It's also not the first time a group has started an HD project and failed to complete... it's a lot of work and for a project such as this a nostalgia mine field where it's hard to please everyone.

Who knows with the different actors and such the official MKHD project may have been too different from the original for people's comfort especially purists. It's not impossible but perhaps well beyond the scope of their expertise. Hell, they had a hard time even making a straight port much less an HD remastered one.

It may have been for the best that they didn't complete it. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch but this project looks to be what that other one should have been.

 

[Bleed]

I can update every 2 days or so, I got a bunch of work done today actually, so I'll do more on the spine tonight. I'm not gonna stop any time soon, I know what can happen.

 

[CARZ]

This project is the most important and impressive sh1t I've ever seen on the internet. I can eat all my suggestions as long as it keeps moving because if there is a project that MUST be completed, this is it. +1 To Bleed for the commitment and for working this days...!

Justin's music and hawkin's Liu Kang are totally awesome as well, La_luna's hundreds of useful posts are also deserving of recognition. Talent everywhere, MK lives on...!