[SPOILER] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX confirmed!

Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

sub-one said:
Nope. tarkatan trollop had an idea and actually though i would follow it. he also though i was serious. now go play with yourself and leave me be lenny limpdick
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I actually was serious. You just so happened to chicken out...bucbucbucBUUUUUUUUUUC!!!!!!!

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Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Commander said:
Scorpion didn't get redemption with the youngest in MK9, in fact Kuai very much wanted to kill Scorpion, but was then captured and turned into a refrigerator before doing so.
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Ha! Well, as of the latest issue, it's looking like that might be in the cards for the comic. And even if they fight, I don't think there's anything wrong with them not being on good terms, as long as Scorpion isn't devoting all of his free time to killing Sub-Zero - he obviously isn't and hasn't had any reason to be upset with Kuai in years - and vice versa - Kuai Liang obviously stopped caring in MK9 after being hotwired by Jax. Which segues neatly into your next (previous) point...

I was just looking forward to something new rather than the same dragged out meaningless Noob Saibot story and Bi-Han (for once) being able to clear the air with Scorpion, having them form an uneasy alliance to take down Quan Chi, and bury the whole 22-year rivalry / misunderstanding, once and for all.
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I would very much expect the "rivals fighting together" storyline to go to Kuai, not Bi Han. I feel that Bi Han's story has diverged sufficiently from Scorpion that trying to reconnect them at this point would be a regression, a detour. Even if Bi Han turns into a good-ish guy (aka Sub-Zero), I wouldn't want him to hunt down Quan Chi. That's Scorpion's story.

If Bi Han has anyone to make amends with, it should be his own brother first and foremost. The Cyber Initiative is his doing, and he helped bring Shao Kahn closer to invading Earthrealm.
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Cyber Initiative was Bi Han's doing? When did this happen?
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

BBBLP said:
Cyber Initiative was Bi Han's doing? When did this happen?
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Oh, shit, it wasn't. I keep thinking - for no good reason at all - that he was the Grandmaster of the Lin Kuei during MK1. It's not the first time I've misremembered things being this way.

Anyway, he never says anything bad about it, so presumably he's pro- it. Right? That makes sense? Or am I misremembering more?
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

p.W said:
Ha! Well, as of the latest issue, it's looking like that might be in the cards for the comic. And even if they fight, I don't think there's anything wrong with them not being on good terms, as long as Scorpion isn't devoting all of his free time to killing Sub-Zero - he obviously isn't and hasn't had any reason to be upset with Kuai in years - and vice versa - Kuai Liang obviously stopped caring in MK9 after being hotwired by Jax. Which segues neatly into your next (previous) point...



I would very much expect the "rivals fighting together" storyline to go to Kuai, not Bi Han. I feel that Bi Han's story has diverged sufficiently from Scorpion that trying to reconnect them at this point would be a regression, a detour. Even if Bi Han turns into a good-ish guy (aka Sub-Zero), I wouldn't want him to hunt down Quan Chi. That's Scorpion's story.

If Bi Han has anyone to make amends with, it should be his own brother first and foremost. The Cyber Initiative is his doing, and he helped bring Shao Kahn closer to invading Earthrealm.
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Tell that to Ed Boon, then, who likes to drag the same vengeance shit over and over and over and over again, game after game :|


As for the 2nd point, I mean more of a Fire and Ice type of thing as a 1-time thing, similar to MK9's ending.
The burden of Quan Chi belongs to BOTH Bi-Han and Hanzo, as his betrayal is the reason why both of them have suffered.
Hunting down Quan Chi belongs to both of them.
Scorpion killed Bi-Han who was not responsible for the death of Scorpion's family and clan in MK9 due to Quan Chi and Bi-Han lost his life due to Quan Chi's treachery.
The redemption story of taking down Quan Chi belongs to the both of them.


p.W said:
Anyway, he never says anything bad about it, so presumably he's pro- it. Right? That makes sense? Or am I misremembering more?
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Not misremembering, but just misinterpreting.
Just because he didn't have spoken line in MK9 regarding the cyber initiative, doesn't automatically mean that he was FOR it.
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm never wrong) but in the original timeline aren't Scorpion and Sub-Zero only rivals in 2 main-series games? MK1 & MK4 right?


Hanzo suffered WAY more than Bi Han did. He deserves the kill.
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Also Scorpion's rivalry with Kuai in MK4 was only made possible due to a retcon.
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

BBBLP said:
Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm never wrong) but in the original timeline aren't Scorpion and Sub-Zero only rivals in 2 main-series games? MK1 & MK4 right?
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Wrong.
Scorpion and Sub-Zero were rivals for the first 2 games and Scorpion swore to protect Kuai when he found out that we was the younger brother of Bi-Han.
After Tobias left, the story went to shit and Scorpion has had the same 20 year "rage," rage," rage," rage," "revenge," "revenge," "revenge," "revenge," story at the hands of Ed Boon.
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Commander said:
Wrong.
Scorpion and Sub-Zero were rivals for the first 2 games and Scorpion swore to protect Kuai when he found out that we was the younger brother of Bi-Han.
After Tobias left, the story went to shit and Scorpion has had the same 20 year "rage," rage," rage," rage," "revenge," "revenge," "revenge," "revenge," story at the hands of Ed Boon.
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I agree with the latter portion of your post but I wouldn't consider them rivals in MK2 considering Kuai didn't give a shit about who killed his Brother in that timeline.
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Commander said:
Wrong.
Scorpion and Sub-Zero were rivals for the first 2 games and Scorpion swore to protect Kuai when he found out that we was the younger brother of Bi-Han.
After Tobias left, the story went to shit and Scorpion has had the same 20 year "rage," rage," rage," rage," "revenge," "revenge," "revenge," "revenge," story at the hands of Ed Boon.
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Actually, that was Vogel. He was the one who took over story writing when Tobias quit, not Boon.

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Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Taj Gill said:
I agree with the latter portion of your post but I wouldn't consider them rivals in MK2 considering Kuai didn't give a shit about who killed his Brother in that timeline.
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I meant that more as Scorpion was still on his shitty revenge crusade, until he realized it was the younger brother.
All the beef was squashed until Boon brought it all back up again, because Scorpion is his favorite character.


Tarkatan Trash said:
Actually, that was Vogel. He was the one who took over story writing when Tobias quit, not Boon.
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I'm sure that Ed had a big say in that, though, given that he's the co-creator.
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Commander said:
Tell that to Ed Boon, then, who likes to drag the same vengeance shit over and over and over and over again, game after game :|
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I don't think that that's entirely fair to Ed Boon. Scorpion and Sub-Zero haven't been enemies since MK4. They spent all of DA, D, and A doing other things. MK9 brought their rivalry back to the forefront, but that was to be expected -1) it was a retelling of the original games, and 2) Scorpion had a tiny role so he didn't really have time to do anything else with his life. Now the MKX comic is out and Scorpion's moved on completely, and nothing in the story trailer suggests that that's going away.

I don't think Boon deserves the bad rap you give him re: the Scorp/Subz rivalry business.

As for the 2nd point, I mean more of a Fire and Ice type of thing as a 1-time thing, similar to MK9's ending.
The burden of Quan Chi belongs to BOTH Bi-Han and Hanzo, as his betrayal is the reason why both of them have suffered.
Hunting down Quan Chi belongs to both of them.
Scorpion killed Bi-Han who was not responsible for the death of Scorpion's family and clan in MK9 due to Quan Chi and Bi-Han lost his life due to Quan Chi's treachery.
The redemption story of taking down Quan Chi belongs to the both of them.
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Bi Han was an assassin. He lived as he died - by the sword. He doesn't deserve justice for his death, or else we could say that every one of his victims deserves justice against him and he should die a hundred times over.

Moreover, I don't feel that Bi Han was Quan Chi's victim in the same way that Scorpion was. Quan Chi manipulated the shit out of Scorpion. Bi Han was just at the wrong place at the wrong time doing the thing he loved to do - trying to kill a fool. Didn't work out this time. That's all there is to it, IMO.

Not misremembering, but just misinterpreting.
Just because he didn't have spoken line in MK9 regarding the cyber initiative, doesn't automatically mean that he was FOR it.
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Yeah, you're right. I guess I'm assuming that because Sub-Zero is dick enough to fight for Shang Tsung, and because he's dick enough to mock Scorpion's dead family and community, he would be dick enough to think the Cyber Initiative is A-OK. MK characters can be pretty unsubtle that way - as soon as Cyrax decides that he's against the Cyber Initiative, he stops fighting for Shang Tsung. Sektor continues fighting for Shang Tsung and is totally for the CI. That's what made me interpret events the way I did.

Having said that, I think I stand by my earlier comment that if anyone deserves an apology from Bi Han, it's his younger brother. Kuai idolized him enough to take up the Sub-Zero name in battle in his honor. There's definitely some unresolved issues there if Bi Han ever comes back to life!
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Commander said:
I meant that more as Scorpion was still on his shitty revenge crusade, until he realized it was the younger brother.
All the beef was squashed until Boon brought it all back up again, because Scorpion is is favorite character.




I'm sure that Ed had a big say in that, though, given that he's the co-creator.
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And oh by the way...Scorpion's revenge thing came back in MK4...at which point Tobias was still on the team. You can't blame that one on Boon.

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Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Commander said:
I meant that more as Scorpion was still on his shitty revenge crusade, until he realized it was the younger brother.
All the beef was squashed until Boon brought it all back up again, because Scorpion is is favorite character.
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Agreed, but BBBLP asked when Scorpion and an incarnation of Sub-Zero were direct rivals, and it's only MK1 and MK4 like he said. And of course, MK9 but different timeline now.

I don't think it's Boon, i attribute it to Vogel.

EDIT: Scratch that, thanks to [MENTION=12345]Tarkatan Trash[/MENTION] who remembered that Tobias was still on the team.

And [MENTION=18661]p.W[/MENTION] great last post, I've ran out of thanks so here's me acknowledging it lol.
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Maybe that's why Scorpion called Sub-Zero a murderer in one of the intros...

Spoiler:
murderer.jpg
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

Ok i'm done. After watching this thread for a long time I'm surprised no one came to this conclusion:

Masked Sub-Zero without scar is young Kuai Liang right after being revived (just after MK9).
Unmasked Comic Sub-Zero is the transition of Kuai Liang.
Unmasked bearded Sub-Zero with scar is Kuai Liang 25 years older.

I think that's it...
 
Re: [SPOILER, RUMOR] Sub-Zero's identity in MKX is...

RodozUl said:
Ok i'm done. After watching this thread for a long time I'm surprised no one came to this conclusion:

Masked Sub-Zero without scar is young Kuai Liang right after being revived (just after MK9).
Unmasked Comic Sub-Zero is the transition of Kuai Liang.
Unmasked bearded Sub-Zero with scar is Kuai Liang 25 years older.

I think that's it...
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Quite possible indeed. I'm down with that theory. And you're right, someone should've thought of that sooner. I'd thank you if I had any remaining.
 
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