Raiden Attitude in MKX

Yellow Ledbetter

New member
I'm glad Scorpion is going after somebody other then Sub-Zero..
But seriously, why go after Raiden?

It was his own fault that Raiden wouldn't request the revival of his family and clan.
He had ONE job...don't kill Sub-Zero.

Scorpions an asshole..

HEYHEYHEYHEYEHY whats that, man? :laugh:

Guy has lost everything and probally has to serve Quan Chi's lunch, can't we give him a break? :laugh:

He's just confused. Let's remember everybody messes with his head, specially story writers.

Maybe he is going after Raiden for eldergodsknows why. The Thunder God is not the kind of guy you go searching without a purpose and if that purpose is to defeat him, I don't think Scorpion is messed up enough to think he can beat him, specially being a "teacher". He may be wanting to ask something...well, but it seems Raiden won't hear very pleased. Raiden ows nothing to him.

Besides, there are only two a-holes on this story. One is the a-hole demon who plotted against two warriors to get both serving him. AND THE OTHER, is Bi-han, who could have easily spared Scorpion, even he was a skilled warrior, Sub-Zero freezes, and Hanzo was completely defeated. That thing "I would be the dead one" is the worst excuse EVER!

Though Quan Chi is an evil being, if Bi-Han wasn't so arrogant, nothing of that would have happened.
 

Kickinwing420

New member
haha I knew you would quote me :laugh:

Yeah, I was just joking about the whole "he's an asshole" thing.
Even though I do find it strange that he thinks Raiden owes him something. Doesn't he demand that Raiden revive his clan in one of the intros? And Raiden responds with "That ship has sailed". So maybe Scorpion feels cheated somehow. Even though the elder gods wouldn't have done a damn thing for Scorpion...No matter how many times Raiden asked.

I do wonder how much influence Quan Chi will have in the comic book.
It would be weird if Scorpion was Quan Chi's slave the whole time. And if Scorpion is working with this new Fire Fox character, then maybe he isn't under Quan Chi's "control" anymore.

And another thing...I think it's pretty obvious that Fire Fox is a part of the Shirai Ryu. If he's helping Scorpion bring back his family and clan..
 

Yellow Ledbetter

New member
haha I knew you would quote me :laugh:

Yeah, I was just joking about the whole "he's an asshole" thing.
Even though I do find it strange that he thinks Raiden owes him something. Doesn't he demand that Raiden revive his clan in one of the intros? And Raiden responds with "That ship has sailed". So maybe Scorpion feels cheated somehow. Even though the elder gods wouldn't have done a damn thing for Scorpion...No matter how many times Raiden asked.

I do wonder how much influence Quan Chi will have in the comic book.
It would be weird if Scorpion was Quan Chi's slave the whole time. And if Scorpion is working with this new Fire Fox character, then maybe he isn't under Quan Chi's "control" anymore.

And another thing...I think it's pretty obvious that Fire Fox is a part of the Shirai Ryu. If he's helping Scorpion bring back his family and clan..

I'm getting predictable, right? :laugh:

I didn't know about this conversation! I laughed at Raiden's responde, because he's completely right. I just assume they MUST reveal everything to Scorpion, they are making him a kid, I can't believe they will put him to search for something he clearly gave up (by rage, but he gave up!).

I think Quan Chi will be a key character on this comic book and game. It's time for him to be the guy to be beaten, no matter the boss, this sorcerer must be put out of the way and pay for his evil.

Of course Scorpion is not an a-hole! But I hope they don't keep him trying to be one. Seriously.
 

Commander

Well-known member
The Elder Gods themselves were culpable in those deaths. After all, their interpretation of the Rules of Mortal Kombat was, and I quote, "Invasion itself is not a transgression. It is the merger of realms that is prescribed."

The fault was Raiden's, as he was the "protector."
MK9 Raiden likes to hide behind the veil of "I cannot fight unless directly challenged," but it's a bunch of bullshit because he decides to interfere and "save" Smoke, only just to then sit idly by and do NOTHING when Cyrax and Sektor take Sub-Zero.
Raiden also CHOSE to visit the Elder Gods, rather than PROTECT those that he was protecting, and thus 9 people died at the hands of Sindel due to Raiden's negligence.
That fault is no one elses but Raiden's.
Had he stuck around and killed Sindel off, none of those people would have died in that Cathedral.
 

Yellow Ledbetter

New member
That's why the Elder Gods are guilty. They create this foolish rules and imaginary barriers to keep people on strings.

And for what? Booo they are scared of the One Being! But when the One Being starts moving its pawns, the Elder Gods start their BS.

And what about every life on existence? They just don't care.

Who put this indirect intervention on every "medium" hierarchy god were the Elder Gods.

The only beings who stand idly by are the Elder Gods.

Raiden made mistakes, terrible mistakes, but he would saved everybody and everything, for sure, if he had autonomy to do that.

On the original timeline, that's when he gets pissed and challenges Quan Chi and Shang Tsung, that was the right thing to do, and the Elder Gods stood idly by that, saw Onaga coming back and reuniting the Kamidogus through decades!

And after that, Raiden does everything (literally) to save Earth, and was named "corrupted". And the Elder Gods gave Argus, some nobody god from Edenia, who would be Elder God (political interest) to solve Armageddon, and he and his wife decided to play with a coin (and the coin are their two sons!).

if the Elder Gods gave autonomy to the gods, nothing of that would have happened. If they never let MK tournament to happen and merge the realms, everything would be different.

It's like they want their "death" to come by the One Being, but it must prove that it's worthy.

That's why I really wish these "pathetic toothless worms maskarade as dragons" to become the very realms. It's a chess with reality where they let people suffer in vain and put shackles on their representatives.
 
They did interfere when Shao Kahn tried merging the realms in the end of MK9. It is dumb, but they cant always help out the Earthrealm warriors when they need it. As far as the Elder Gods were concerned, Shao Kahn wasn't breaking any rules until the end of MK9. The Elder Gods are giving a realty check. Raiden wanted to be Earthrealm's protector now he's got to be a big boy play the part. He can't just run to the Elder Gods when things look sour. Raiden is a god of thunder, not an Elder God, so he can interfere if he wants to.
 

Commander

Well-known member
Yellow Ledbetter said:
That's why the Elder Gods are guilty. They create this foolish rules and imaginary barriers to keep people on strings.

This is why Raiden is guilty, IMO.
Here's Shao Kahn and his minions bending all the "rules" and the Elder Gods don't give 2 turds, yet goody 2-shoes Raiden does nothing while people are dying all around him.
During the story mode of MK9, I kept wondering "Why the hell doesn't Raiden bend some of the rules too, and fight fire with fire?"

Raiden has perfect autonomy in MK9 to save people, as is evident with what he did with Johnny Cage vs Motaro, in which Motaro was killed when he was pushed by Raiden into the river.

The problem that I had with the writing for MK9 Raiden is that he picked and chose when to bend the rules, and the other times when he didn't bend the rules to save others, he defaulted to the bullshit "I cannot fight unless I am challenged" weak statement.


Raiden wanted to be Earthrealm's protector now he's got to be a big boy play the part. He can't just run to the Elder Gods when things look sour. Raiden is a god of thunder, not an Elder God, so he can interfere if he wants to.

Exactly.
Thank you.
I couldn't have said it better myself. :top:
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in the old timeline Raiden was granted Elder God status. After, this he still interfered in the affairs of mortals, which is why he was labeled "The corrupted."
 

Tarkatan Trash

Active member
The fault was Raiden's, as he was the "protector."
MK9 Raiden likes to hide behind the veil of "I cannot fight unless directly challenged," but it's a bunch of bullshit because he decides to interfere and "save" Smoke, only just to then sit idly by and do NOTHING when Cyrax and Sektor take Sub-Zero.
Raiden also CHOSE to visit the Elder Gods, rather than PROTECT those that he was protecting, and thus 9 people died at the hands of Sindel due to Raiden's negligence.
That fault is no one elses but Raiden's.
Had he stuck around and killed Sindel off, none of those people would have died in that Cathedral.
How was it Raiden's fault that the Elder Gods refused to enforce their own damn rules until it was too late on the account of clear misinterpretation? Raiden didn't make the Rules of Mortal Kombat, the Elder Gods did. Who's responsibility is it to enforce those rules again? If the Elder Gods DID enforce those rules like they were supposed to, Shang Tsung wouldn't have gotten away with rigging the tournament for 500 years, and they would've intervened during Shao Kahn's invasion MUCH earlier than they did.

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Commander

Well-known member
How was it Raiden's fault that the Elder Gods refused to enforce their own damn rules until it was too late on the account of clear misinterpretation? Raiden didn't make the Rules of Mortal Kombat, the Elder Gods did.


Raiden failed to do his job as "protector."
He chose to be the EarthRealm protector and he should have been better at it.
He wasn't.
Sub-Zero even tells him in MKX "They need a better protector."
If Raiden had been a better "protector" and had actually done his job right, all of those warriors likely would not have perished, or very few (if any).
MK9 contradicts Raiden's whole bullshit "I can't interfere" statement, on multiple occasions on when he DOES interfere.
 
Raiden failed to do his job as "protector."
He chose to be the EarthRealm protector and he should have been better at it.
He wasn't.
Sub-Zero even tells him in MKX "They need a better protector."
If Raiden had been a better "protector" and had actually done his job right, all of those warriors likely would not have perished, or very few (if any).
MK9 contradicts Raiden's whole bullshit "I can't interfere" statement, on multiple occasions on when he DOES interfere.

Plus Raiden accepted Outworlds terms. Then after Shao Kahn was beaten, the tournament was over and they won. Then Shao Kahn invaded, and Raiden ran to the Elder Gods. Raiden shouldn't have wasted time, and kept doing his job. He was allowed to protect Earthrealm all he wanted. Hence why Raiden fought Motaro.
 

Tarkatan Trash

Active member
Raiden failed to do his job as "protector."
He chose to be the EarthRealm protector and he should have been better at it.
He wasn't.
Sub-Zero even tells him in MKX "They need a better protector."
If Raiden had been a better "protector" and had actually done his job right, all of those warriors likely would not have perished.
MK9 contradicts Raiden's whole bullshit "I can interfere" statement, on multiple occasions on when he DOES interfere.
Raiden and his allies were left out to dry while Shao Kahn broke the Rules of the Tournament (even after the rules were amended to "Outworld loses again and they lose Earthrealm FOREVER," by the way...which the Elder Gods themselves approved).

At least Raiden didn't look the other way until the absolute last minute...in fact, the Elder Gods didn't do jack shit about Shinnok's transgressions until Raiden kicked his ass, and I already spelled out most of the other well known cases of the Elder Gods looking the other way. And somehow, the consequences of the Elder Gods not enforcing their own Rules until the last minute is Raiden's fault...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk
 

Commander

Well-known member
Raiden and his allies were left out to dry while Shao Kahn broke the Rules of the Tournament (even after the rules were amended to "Outworld loses again and they lose Earthrealm FOREVER," by the way...which the Elder Gods themselves approved).

At least Raiden didn't look the other way until the absolute last minute...in fact, the Elder Gods didn't do jack shit about Shinnok's transgressions until Raiden kicked his ass, and I already spelled out most of the other well known cases of the Elder Gods looking the other way. And somehow, the consequences of the Elder Gods not enforcing their own Rules until the last minute is Raiden's fault...


Raiden accepted Outworlds terms. Then after Shao Kahn was beaten, the tournament was over and they won. Then Shao Kahn invaded, and Raiden ran to the Elder Gods. Raiden shouldn't have wasted time, and kept doing his job. He was allowed to protect Earthrealm all he wanted. Hence why Raiden fought Motaro.

This.
Raiden didn't have to accept Outworld's terms, and yet he did.
The legal Tournament was over after the MKII part of the story in MK9.
After that was the MK3 part (Invasion).

[MENTION=12345]Tarkatan Trash[/MENTION]
Shao Kahn didn't "break" the rules until he actually decided to merge the realms without victory in Mortal Kombat.
He sure as hell did "bend" the rules, though.
And yes, Raiden sure as hell did look the other way until the last minute, when he chose to speak to the Elder Gods and not protect those who he swore to protect.

The Elder Gods not enforcing the rules in MK9 untile Shao Kahn stepped through (due to a technicality) is 1 thing, but Raiden doing a piss poor job of protecting the ones who he swore to protect is another thing.
The 2 are completely different subjects on their own.
The fact remains that 9 people died in the MK9 Cathedral, due to Raiden's neglect and poor choices.
 

Nethervestige

New member
Reading this page has got me thinking, what if the big bad of MKX turns out to be the elder gods themselves? Not in hand-to-hand kombat I mean, but I have a feeling that whoever's waiting for us at the end of story mode will be a 'surprise returning character' who is possessed by the elder gods, similar to Raiden's fight with Khan.

My intuition tells me that NRS has shown us that the elder gods are disturbingly unfit for their posts for a reason. That would certainly be a new direction for the franchise, to end the tyranny of these masquerading worms. Shao Khan was right all along :bomb:
 

Yellow Ledbetter

New member
Raiden wanted to be Earthrealm's protector now he's got to be a big boy play the part. He can't just run to the Elder Gods when things look sour. Raiden is a god of thunder, not an Elder God, so he can interfere if he wants to.

Of course he needs, it's a matter of hierarchy. Raiden is a protector, but Shao Kahn's treat is something that transcends one realm. The guy invades everybody, he just transformed Edenia in a pile of corpses. He can't interfere, these are the laws of the Elder Gods, and if it's a law, there is a saction for it, we don't know what matters can menace all the gods from interfering on "mortal affairs". But that was beyond, the Elder Gods had to do it since the beginning of time.

For the exact reason he is the Thunder God, he's not omnipotent, he needs some back up.

This is why Raiden is guilty, IMO.
Here's Shao Kahn and his minions bending all the "rules" and the Elder Gods don't give 2 turds, yet goody 2-shoes Raiden does nothing while people are dying all around him.
During the story mode of MK9, I kept wondering "Why the hell doesn't Raiden bend some of the rules too, and fight fire with fire?"

Raiden has perfect autonomy in MK9 to save people, as is evident with what he did with Johnny Cage vs Motaro, in which Motaro was killed when he was pushed by Raiden into the river.

The problem that I had with the writing for MK9 Raiden is that he picked and chose when to bend the rules, and the other times when he didn't bend the rules to save others, he defaulted to the bullshit "I cannot fight unless I am challenged" weak statement.

But Raiden could only save those of the "chosen". What about the rest of the world? Perished by the Elder God's omission.

That's the interesting of this character, IMO, what makes him one of my favorites. He is a god, but he has visible human traits.

He fails, he makes mistakes, he judges things wrong. He is capable of sighting all the problems on Earth, except when these problems transcend his "jurisdiction".

I mean, he is said to protect Earth. Ok, he has done it and was front man on Shinnok's invasion.

But the Elder Gods were on his side!

There is a normative problem with the Elder Gods. They say "protect Earthrealm". At the same time they say "we prevent merging the realms without MK" (which is, by the way, BS, because they should AVOID it at any costs). Anyway, when a threat like INVASION happens, the Elder Gods close their eyes and say "no, it's not merging (so we can't prevent), so, you are competent to deal with it!". That's totally out of all protector's powers!

The teleology of this rule is ABSURD. With invasion not being considered a threat and being put onto Raiden's responsability ALONE it's proven that the Elder God's just don't care about life, about existence itself, unless it deals with the One Being and ONLY if this happens outside of that dumb tournament of theirs (discount the name of our beloved game :laugh: ).

When they needed to protect everything, they are omissive and let things happen with gods with little jurisdiction, when clearly this kind of threat is a jurisdiction of the Elder Gods, not the "lesser gods". That's why Raiden's hands are tied, because he needs to do things limited to his permissions, and his MK:DA/D attitude was THE BEST, only put on focus his human side when he has chosen the highest bidding to desperately and in the dumbest way try to save what was already lost: Earth.

For both leaders, Commander and Grandmaster :laugh:

Let's go back to the beginning.

There were Gods and "something". This "something" is said to "fed off" those gods. IT'S SAID, because it's the story of the victor, we don't know when the Elder Gods are the "evil" deities (remembering reality are the dreams of the One Being according to MK:D dialogues).

Anyway, let's think. If they really were responsible, they would not only shatter the One Being, but avoid its reunited body. Not only they tolerate its dreams, constantly lurking its creations to rejoin itself, but they created a dumb tournament and a row to win and merge a realms!

If the Elder Gods were good, they would make rules for the good of life, for prosperity. They just find excuses and don't care for people's suffering (remember what they did to Scorpion on MK:A?). They make rules where its omission is decided on the damage of those they took the power.

If they had resolved all of this since forever, we would never be in this situation (story matters, people! We also know we would never play this game lol).

Raiden is guilty, but he is guilty by imprudence, by lack of help, by too much weight. The Elder Gods stood idle. They are just like Shao Kahn, they kill and let people die in the worst way: omission. Raiden let people die because he couldn't protect everybody. That's why he's awesome.

Respect all opinions, but it's because this dialogue got very very interesting. :)
 
Of course he needs, it's a matter of hierarchy. Raiden is a protector, but Shao Kahn's treat is something that transcends one realm. The guy invades everybody, he just transformed Edenia in a pile of corpses. He can't interfere, these are the laws of the Elder Gods, and if it's a law, there is a saction for it, we don't know what matters can menace all the gods from interfering on "mortal affairs". But that was beyond, the Elder Gods had to do it since the beginning of time.

For the exact reason he is the Thunder God, he's not omnipotent, he needs some back up.



But Raiden could only save those of the "chosen". What about the rest of the world? Perished by the Elder God's omission.

That's the interesting of this character, IMO, what makes him one of my favorites. He is a god, but he has visible human traits.

He fails, he makes mistakes, he judges things wrong. He is capable of sighting all the problems on Earth, except when these problems transcend his "jurisdiction".

I mean, he is said to protect Earth. Ok, he has done it and was front man on Shinnok's invasion.

But the Elder Gods were on his side!

There is a normative problem with the Elder Gods. They say "protect Earthrealm". At the same time they say "we prevent merging the realms without MK" (which is, by the way, BS, because they should AVOID it at any costs). Anyway, when a threat like INVASION happens, the Elder Gods close their eyes and say "no, it's not merging (so we can't prevent), so, you are competent to deal with it!". That's totally out of all protector's powers!

The teleology of this rule is ABSURD. With invasion not being considered a threat and being put onto Raiden's responsability ALONE it's proven that the Elder God's just don't care about life, about existence itself, unless it deals with the One Being and ONLY if this happens outside of that dumb tournament of theirs (discount the name of our beloved game :laugh: ).

When they needed to protect everything, they are omissive and let things happen with gods with little jurisdiction, when clearly this kind of threat is a jurisdiction of the Elder Gods, not the "lesser gods". That's why Raiden's hands are tied, because he needs to do things limited to his permissions, and his MK:DA/D attitude was THE BEST, only put on focus his human side when he has chosen the highest bidding to desperately and in the dumbest way try to save what was already lost: Earth.

For both leaders, Commander and Grandmaster :laugh:

Let's go back to the beginning.

There were Gods and "something". This "something" is said to "fed off" those gods. IT'S SAID, because it's the story of the victor, we don't know when the Elder Gods are the "evil" deities (remembering reality are the dreams of the One Being according to MK:D dialogues).

Anyway, let's think. If they really were responsible, they would not only shatteer the One Being, but avoid its reunited body. Not only they tolerate its dreams, constantly lurking its creations to rejoin itself, but they created a dumb tournament and a row to win and merge a realms!

If the Elder Gods were good, they would make rules for the good of life, for prosperity. They just find excuses and don't care for people's suffering (remember what they did to Scorpion on MK:A?). They make rules where its omission is decided on the damage of those they took the power.

If they had resolved all of this since forever, we would never be in this situation (story matters, people! We also know we would never play this game lol).

Raiden is guilty, but he is guilty by imprudence, by lack of help, by too much weight. The Elder Gods stood idle. They are just like Shao Kahn, they kill and let people die in the worst way: omission. Raiden let people die because he couldn't protect everybody. That's why he's awesome.

Respect all opinions, but it's because this dialogue got very very interesting. :)

I know it sounds stupid but that's their rules. Just because Shao Kahn lets his military invade, doesn't mean it's merging the realms. When Shao Kahn enters Earthrealm, that is merging the realms. Shao Kahn's military could kill everyone, and he would still face the Elder Gods wrath if he tried to merge. That's why the Elder Gods did something in the end of MK9. Point is if Raiden would've stayed with the champions, they wouldn't have died. Just because the Elder Gods don't care about the people, doesn't mean they don't care about the merging of realms. Plus Raiden assumed the whole time that the Elder Gods would do nothing about it.
 

Yellow Ledbetter

New member
I know it sounds stupid but that's their rules. Just because Shao Kahn lets his military invade, doesn't mean it's merging the realms. When Shao Kahn enters Earthrealm, that is merging the realms. Shao Kahn's military could kill everyone, and he would still face the Elder Gods wrath if he tried to merge. That's why the Elder Gods did something in the end of MK9. Point is if Raiden would've stayed with the champions, they wouldn't have died. Just because the Elder Gods don't care about the people, doesn't mean they don't care about the merging of realms. Plus Raiden assumed the whole time that the Elder Gods would do nothing about it.

It may sound, but you are right, and that' s exactly my critic: their rules have no legitimate finality!

They care for nothing. They let holocausts happen and they also allow merging the realms, since people win MK. End will come anyway, specially because no one cares about the tournament. That' s the point of Armageddon!

They are the cause of the end through their omission. IMO, Raiden was left with hands tied, bound to resolve a problem that is not FORMALLY merging realms, but it's the same and even transcends his action field.

Elder Gods need a legitimate finish to their rules: FINALITY!!!

Sent from GT-S5830B in Netherrealm, where someone could use a call to tell Scorpion the truth.
 

Commander

Well-known member
I know it sounds stupid but that's their rules. Just because Shao Kahn lets his military invade, doesn't mean it's merging the realms. When Shao Kahn enters Earthrealm, that is merging the realms. Shao Kahn's military could kill everyone, and he would still face the Elder Gods wrath if he tried to merge. That's why the Elder Gods did something in the end of MK9. Point is if Raiden would've stayed with the champions, they wouldn't have died. Just because the Elder Gods don't care about the people, doesn't mean they don't care about the merging of realms. Plus Raiden assumed the whole time that the Elder Gods would do nothing about it.

This is exactly what I was trying to get at.
Despite the technicality of the stupid Elder Gods' rules, Raiden still failed to stay with the champions and stop Sindel, and thus 9 people under his watch and "protection" needlessly died in 1 scene.
Raiden can't protect every single person on EarthRealm, but by saving the 8 people under his "protection" they could have stopped the threat against EarthRealm more easily.
 
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