Mortal Kombat HD Remix with MUGEN
- Thread starter Spawn16
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smoke.tetsu
New member
This kind of brings me to something else though. Much of this work seems to be progressing so fast that it almost seems like many people here are rushing. There's no rush! There's no deadline for this project other than "when it's done" as far as I can tell\know. So on the one hand it's nice that quite a bit of high quality stuff is being shown in a short amount of time it's also OK to take your time.
BTW, I know I said I wouldn't say much more about the Masked Guard but in my opinion the only thing that made him surreal is the fact that the digitized video footage was flattened into a 2 dimensional sprite, the fact that he's either small thusly lower res and harder to see than the main characters or partially obscured by the background and also when John Vogel made it he probably wore a baggy robe and might have even worn something underneath like football armor to bulk himself up (remember they made all the costumes as cheaply as they could).
But believe me he WAS an actual person in a costume.. the artist himself even said it.
Also don't shoot me for this but i also noticed he was supposed to have sandals (probably geta) and you are missing the strap that goes over the foot and between the toes.
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vetalfox
New member
Actually there is a deadline (literally), cause most of fan projects never finished. The art so far looks good, i don't think even Netherealm could come up with something better. There are too many things that needed to be done, but instead calactyte edit the same guard again and again, it is a waste of time.
smoke.tetsu
New member
Sometimes something needs to go through several revisions before it's a final good piece of work.... you'd be surprised how many iterations and versions the projects you take for granted go through before they are considered done. Fine tuning and revision is never a waste of time if the end result is better than just slapping on the first thing you make.
Also I don't think you should be rushing anyone here. Yes, many projects are never finished but that doesn't mean a project has to be rushed. Is that what you really want? For this to be rushed?
No one is going to die because someone took a few more hours to revise a sprite in a fan based HD remake project.
smoke.tetsu
New member
What is your problem? Whenever someone makes a change to something it's a revision and no I'm not saying it should be perfect right off in fact that's why I was helping. No I never said that it should be perfect right away. Things like this take time and work and feedback helps sometimes a person is too close to a project and sometimes fresh eyes especially ones that can make good observation are needed.
Sometimes it's better to fix something before it goes final before it's all baked into the project and the source is lost and or so complicated that it's difficult to rework.
You're getting very confrontational and accusatory with me and also with an aggressive tone and this is kind of uncalled for when all I've been doing is giving constructive criticism. You seem to be taking this very personal.
Perhaps there's a language barrier here because your sig says "sorry for my english" so english is probably not your first language is it?
BTW, Netherrealm/Other Ocean probably dropped their HD project not because of feedback but because they wanted to spend as little money possible on it I mean look at what they ended up delivering. A very buggy arcade kollection that appeared to be rushed through QA. They probably didn't even give them enough time to do a straight up port properly much less an HD remix. This is very apparent when they ship something with glaring bugs like sounds getting cut off. Also they probably didn't want it to compete with MK9.
BTW, Rushed means done quickly and with haste and for the most part things have been great here as I've said before but it's starting to show at least with the masked guard.... although I understand to you it may look great. I was just trying to assure them that it's OK to take your time with art and you don't need to get to the next thing as quick as possible. In fact it's better if you don't.
Besides, I'm getting mixed messages here with some telling me my opinions are valued and others like vetalfox stopping short of telling me to STFU.
Sometimes it's better to fix something before it goes final before it's all baked into the project and the source is lost and or so complicated that it's difficult to rework.
You're getting very confrontational and accusatory with me and also with an aggressive tone and this is kind of uncalled for when all I've been doing is giving constructive criticism. You seem to be taking this very personal.
Perhaps there's a language barrier here because your sig says "sorry for my english" so english is probably not your first language is it?
BTW, Netherrealm/Other Ocean probably dropped their HD project not because of feedback but because they wanted to spend as little money possible on it I mean look at what they ended up delivering. A very buggy arcade kollection that appeared to be rushed through QA. They probably didn't even give them enough time to do a straight up port properly much less an HD remix. This is very apparent when they ship something with glaring bugs like sounds getting cut off. Also they probably didn't want it to compete with MK9.
BTW, Rushed means done quickly and with haste and for the most part things have been great here as I've said before but it's starting to show at least with the masked guard.... although I understand to you it may look great. I was just trying to assure them that it's OK to take your time with art and you don't need to get to the next thing as quick as possible. In fact it's better if you don't.
Besides, I'm getting mixed messages here with some telling me my opinions are valued and others like vetalfox stopping short of telling me to STFU.
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Hey Smoke,
I every instance your comments are valuable. Please don't feel attacked. I will revisit the guard when we near the Projects end. I have a friend who is a master sculptor who isn't quite an MK fan but loves digital sculpting. I will reach out to him and see if we can collaborate to make better cloth. But, I don't think its too far off and right now I think it is acceptable. I hear and understand that you don't agree. Fair enough, we can move forward and swing back later. I really love what we are doing here together. I am honored to be working among some fantastic artists. If we seemed to be progressing quickly it is because everyone is inspired by each others work. So please don't be offended. As I said your opinion is valued even if I won't always agree.
I every instance your comments are valuable. Please don't feel attacked. I will revisit the guard when we near the Projects end. I have a friend who is a master sculptor who isn't quite an MK fan but loves digital sculpting. I will reach out to him and see if we can collaborate to make better cloth. But, I don't think its too far off and right now I think it is acceptable. I hear and understand that you don't agree. Fair enough, we can move forward and swing back later. I really love what we are doing here together. I am honored to be working among some fantastic artists. If we seemed to be progressing quickly it is because everyone is inspired by each others work. So please don't be offended. As I said your opinion is valued even if I won't always agree.
ludepunk
New member
Well said calactyte. I've been following this thread quite a bit because of all the great stuff that has gotten worked on here so let me steer this away a bit from the nitpickiness of the guard render (which looks amazing btw), it seems everyone wants to be a critic these days. Shoe straps? Really? I know what I'm going to ask isn't something that will be bothered with for some time but I'm just curious: is all this great artwork really gonna get coded and programmed to work? I've seen a lot of art but haven't heard from any programmers. Also, how will the sound design work? Will the audio files be snatched from the old game or will new things be composed and recorded?
i'm the coder and i'm putting all the pieces together.
the throne room is working, i need to fix and add more stuff but is working.
now i'm working on a basic character. it's scorpion scaled to 720p. the sprites are almost done, tonight i'll make his animations.
with all this i can start working on physics, reactions, damage, and other systems like battle plan, etc etc.
To get hit boxes working is super easy, to get them to match the original is more of a pain. The way MK uses collision boxes is not the usual, and I don't know of any way to view the collision data for MK1. I only know you could do it in MKTrilogy for Nintendo 64.
MK uses a Hit, Get hit and a Push box.
Mugen 1.0 doesn't have the push box separate, so you have to figure out some other clever way of doing it.
MK uses a Hit, Get hit and a Push box.
Mugen 1.0 doesn't have the push box separate, so you have to figure out some other clever way of doing it.
TerryMasters
New member
I think there's a way to make MAME display the hitboxes, but I don't remember how at the moment 
smoke.tetsu
New member
I'm not nit picking.... to quite a few people even those sloppy thrown together MUGEN projects look amazing. But here we are trying to make a faithful proper HD remake. I've already been told by certain people (Calactyte) that my critique is valued so this is unnecessary... Besides, if you've followed the thread you'd see I don't just sit here and be an armchair critic I roll up my sleeves and give concrete examples whenever possible.
The sandal straps thing was partially a joke... especially since it had already been said he thought that sprite was done for now. That should have been evident especially with the smiley.
I'm also going to attempt to package this up for Mac users to play with.. so I'm trying to contribute here as much as I can...
So please.. no more of this arm chair body guard stuff here... OK?
Moving on.....
Bleed finished Scopion? Or are you using something else in the time being?
If Scorpion is finished.. Reptile and Sub-zero shouldn't be too far behind since they are palette swaps although their eyes shouldn't be white like Scorpion... (Scorpion is a specter and the are not).
Googling Mortal Kombat hitbox mostly gets you sites about the stickless arcade stick called the hitbox playing MK9.
Nothing related to those invisible boxes that define collision in games.
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i'm using an arcade scaled to 720 scorpion
Hammerhans
New member
Ugh still don't agree with the 720p decision. Yes it will run on more PCs but it will also look outdated faster, hell in 2 maaaaaybe 3 years, everyone and their mother will be able to run it at 1080p. The whole idea is to give it a facelift, so why take a bread out of the oven before it's properly baked?
Just try to run a game in 720p if you have a 1080p+ screen. NOT a movie, they are more forgiving when it comes to this, reason why ppl still think DVDs are fine in terms of looks. But you don't see anyone playing games in 800x600 anymore (which is actually higher than dvd) why? CAUSE IT LOOKS SH!T in games, and 720p is borderline crap aswell. Just look at the game compared to 1080p, try changing back and forth, you can clearly see the ugliness manifest itself infront of your eye. Absolutely horrendous right? Yeah.
Just saying: Don't let all this great work go down the drain by dwarfing yourself to 720p. You WILL regret it...
Just try to run a game in 720p if you have a 1080p+ screen. NOT a movie, they are more forgiving when it comes to this, reason why ppl still think DVDs are fine in terms of looks. But you don't see anyone playing games in 800x600 anymore (which is actually higher than dvd) why? CAUSE IT LOOKS SH!T in games, and 720p is borderline crap aswell. Just look at the game compared to 1080p, try changing back and forth, you can clearly see the ugliness manifest itself infront of your eye. Absolutely horrendous right? Yeah.
Just saying: Don't let all this great work go down the drain by dwarfing yourself to 720p. You WILL regret it...
why mk9 runs at 720 then? maybe for the same as this project: performance. and ps3 and xbox are beast "computers"
take a look at mugen community and tell me how many full hd there are... not much. why? because not all people can run them and have the game running at constant framerate
take a look at mugen community and tell me how many full hd there are... not much. why? because not all people can run them and have the game running at constant framerate
Well..., can't we just make a separate .sff, sprite file at 1080? Then people can choose what they want to use, like the quality settings in PC games.
It wouldn't be a problem for me, because I can make an Action script in Photoshop that will save the two sizes automatically. You can also convert every single sprite with a batch automation.
What happens if we make the game at 1080, and let people scale it down in the config file if they need to. This way you only need one .sff, and if it runs slow, lower the resolution setting.
That is what I'm doing with mugen 1.0, it comes with the HD scale by default but it runs slow on my system. I changed the scale to 640x480 and it runs fine with the same sprites.
It wouldn't be a problem for me, because I can make an Action script in Photoshop that will save the two sizes automatically. You can also convert every single sprite with a batch automation.
What happens if we make the game at 1080, and let people scale it down in the config file if they need to. This way you only need one .sff, and if it runs slow, lower the resolution setting.
That is what I'm doing with mugen 1.0, it comes with the HD scale by default but it runs slow on my system. I changed the scale to 640x480 and it runs fine with the same sprites.
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smoke.tetsu
New member
The PS3 and 360 are around 6 years old now and are no longer next gen or as beastly as they once where especially compared to modern PCs. They are able to do quite a bit with them especially how they are able to code closer to the metal but no they are not beasts any more.
As a result technically speaking many games on the consoles especially the 360 don't even run at a full HD 720p resolution believe it or not! Many modern games on the consoles run at sub-HD resolutions. This is because of performance reasons. Although a 2D game like this wouldn't have the same kind of performance characteristics as a AAA fully 3D blockbuster. You also don't get a choice there especially since they did it for performance reasons. You're lucky if those systems can run modern games at a full 720p. They also have to limit the texture resolution and things like that to fit the 512MB of RAM those systems have.
Also mostly where you get hit by a lower resolution in games when they are 3D is in the jaggies nessesitating more antialiasing. But this game is 2D and would have baked in antialiasing with the pre-rendering and 32-bit sprites. So on the one hand yes scaling it from 720p to a higher resolution would make it look softer it wouldn't be the same as running a 3D game at that resolution without antialiasing.
I think it's telling that people can't tell most of the games they are playing now are less than 720p on their consoles.
On the other hand if it's not too much work having a "detail setting" which toggles between artwork output to 1080p or 720p as Bleed suggests would be a nice thing.
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