Do you think Kitana and Mileena would make the cut?

ok?

i don't know why my post made you so angry. it was not meant to speak for everyone, just myself, which is why it said 'personally'. if your friends care, cool. i happen to not. it's a personal view, not everyone's view.
 
Lel, MK doesn't need trans people. This is not a wish fulfilment game. It is a work of fiction... and just putting things in for the sake of political correctness if absolutely stupid. I'm not opposed to games with trans people in (I'm a massive Poison fan), but not every single thing in the world has to cater to every single person in the world.

Jesus Fluffling Christ.
 
GloriousDK said:
Says ONE woman. Opposed to many of my female friends and queer friends who actually care about those issues. Surely you at least understand why the issue is important to some of the fans.
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lol I can sympathize. It's not hard for me to imagine a game where all the females are wearing cool armor, and all the male characters are wearing thongs. If a game existed like that alone, I wouldn't rant. But if a game I loved that had nothing to do with men wearing thongs became a thing about men wearing thongs, then I see your plight. But I'm not gonna bash someone who likes men in thongs for liking what they like.

but I personally wouldn't go on a rant about other issues that don't particularly have anything to do with the work of fiction and what's depicted in it.

Yes there are real world problems...

this is fiction. you're allowed to wish for it to be a certain way
 
Kzaoo said:
Lel, MK doesn't need trans people. This is not a wish fulfilment game. It is a work of fiction... and just putting things in for the sake of political correctness if absolutely stupid. I'm not opposed to games with trans people in (I'm a massive Poison fan), but not every single thing in the world has to cater to every single person in the world.

Jesus Fluffling Christ.
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Despite everyone else's walls of text.. imo you said everything needed to be said right here.
 
GloriousDK said:
Works of fiction don't get a free pass from criticism.
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People criticizing works of fiction, also don't get a free pass for criticism.

People are allowed to disagree with you, that a work of fiction is just a work of fiction, and it doesn't auto-carry into real life scenarios.

If it does, I'd argue that person needs help before they even got hold of that piece of fiction.
 
Critical-Limit said:
People criticizing works of fiction, also don't get a free pass for criticism.

People are allowed to disagree with you, that a work of fiction is just a work of fiction, and it doesn't auto-carry into real life scenarios.

If it does, I'd argue that person needs help before they even got hold of that piece of fiction.
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Here we are, with some players pointing out the sexist elements of a game they love and people are rushing to defend it by saying it's fiction so it doesn't matter. We've been at this. The criticism is valid and actually true and it actually matters, not that we should turn around and throw other nitpicky bullshit criticisms at the person making this very obvious and valid critique. Hell, I could be a hypocrite all day long about what I'm talking about, but saying Mortal Kombat is sexist or has really noticeable sexist elements doesn't mean it's less true because you could potentially prove that somewhere along the line, I'm a hypocrite or some deplorable kind of person. This isn't a discussion about the critiquer's character. That's an ad homenim argument.
 
GloriousDK said:
Here we are, with some players pointing out the sexist elements of a game they love and people are rushing to defend it by saying it's fiction so it doesn't matter. We've been at this. The criticism is valid and actually true and it actually matters, not that we should turn around and throw other nitpicky bullshit criticisms at the person making this very obvious and valid critique. Hell, I could be a hypocrite all day long about what I'm talking about, but saying Mortal Kombat is sexist or has really noticeable sexist elements doesn't mean it's less true because you could potentially prove that somewhere along the line, I'm a hypocrite or some deplorable kind of person. This isn't a discussion about the critiquer's character. That's an ad homenim argument.
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lol Um.. going overboard IMO.

I'm just saying it's up for debate, you tried to shut down their downplay of it being fiction by just saying "it doesn't get a free pass"
your right it doesn't.

but neither does the criticizer.

What are the negative ramifications of fiction having negative content, assuming the reader is capable of critical thinking. removing sexist elements will just make the game more pleasurable for you right? I'm alright with you wanting that for yourself.

But having sexist elements in a mature work of fiction meant for adult minded readers(I'm not talking specificially MK at this point), some people enjoy those pieces of fiction. Whether they enjoy reading something uncomfortable, for shock value, or maybe they're a power hungry person, but they know it's wrong so they get their fill from fiction. Or maybe they like reading controversy.

It's a work of fiction "In my opinion" So I personally always give it a free pass.

You might not, that's fine. But some people out there are allowed to find outlets for their desires and we sadly don't all share the same desires.
 
MK doesn't need trannies.
It's a tongue in cheek fighting game with stereotypes all around. Go look for equality somewhere else.
 
Yeah, we get it. You don't care. Even though everyone talking about it agrees about the sexist elements, it's never up to debate as to who gets to enjoy the game. Those who enjoy the objectification of women should automatically be catered to all the time because I guess more hetero-normative sexuality being depicted in a game about a tournament where people fight to the death is totally okay to bludgeon us over the head with is just better and we should ALWAYS have sexist elements in our media because it's easy. Would it kill us to give the other side of the spectrum a chance to enjoy the game without having to deal with the objectification of women or are we only entitled to our opinions while cisgendered hetero boys get to have their way... all the time?
 
Well that's who Mortal Kombat is mostly made for. Testosterone fueled dudes who want to rip somebody's head off.
That isn't to say they should be the only ones who get to play it, but they are the intended target audience so obviously they are to be pandered to.
 
Wow, [MENTION=17841]GloriousDK[/MENTION] I place you on the most highest of pedestals in regards to why this world is forced to be PC at every single aspect of life.

Bravo sir, bravo.
 
BBBLP said:
MK doesn't need trannies.
It's a tongue in cheek fighting game with stereotypes all around. Go look for equality somewhere else.
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Said the author, said the magazine publisher, said the musician, said the director, said the film producer, said the newspaper editor, said the game developer, said the tv actor, said the painter, said the advertiser.

God forbid better representation is depicted in the media like... at all.
 
Taj Gill said:
Wow, [MENTION=17841]GloriousDK[/MENTION] I place you on the most highest of pedestals in regards to why this world is forced to be PC at every single aspect of life.

Bravo sir, bravo.
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Yeah, because the world is just a horrible place because sometimes it's ill advised to use hate speech and hide it under the guise of art. We should just go back to a time when hate speech was totally a-okay in the media.
 
GloriousDK said:
Yeah, we get it. You don't care. Even though everyone talking about it agrees about the sexist elements, it's never up to debate as to who gets to enjoy the game. Those who enjoy the objectification of women should automatically be catered to all the time because I guess more hetero-normative sexuality being depicted in a game about a tournament where people fight to the death is totally okay to bludgeon us over the head with is just better and we should ALWAYS have sexist elements in our media because it's easy. Would it kill us to give the other side of the spectrum a chance to enjoy the game without having to deal with the objectification of women or are we only entitled to our opinions while cisgendered hetero boys get to have their way... all the time?
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you're a professional at putting words in people's mouths. A ton of people agree with you about your position.

Let me ask you this. why is sexual objectification a worse crime in a fictional story... than people KILLING eachother. WAR is something that is a serious topic. but we don't talk about censoring and catering to pacifists when a love story becomes a war story.

This is just an opinionated want of what MK should be.

btw saying things like "it's never up to debate as to who gets to enjoy the game"
did I not just say... It's up for debate? you were the one trying to keep people from debating you. they wanted to say political correctness for a "fictional story" is not necessary.

But you tried to auto-stop them by saying "nope I'm allowed to." Of course you're allowed too... lol... But SO ARE THEY. Kzaoo is allowed to say his piece on the subject matter when it comes to fiction.

You said your piece too. And you have people who agree with you.

"Those who enjoy the objectification of women should automatically be catered to all the time"
no one said that, it's like you're arguing with some sort of MRA male in here and they're fighting for manpower! That's not even the case. You're pulling so much stuff out of no-where.

You are being given your chance. if you weren't, we all would've just put you on black list and left the thread to some kind of circle jerk man-power thread.

but everyone's listening... you're getting your input in. Are people not allowed to have an opposing view to your view on fiction?
 
GloriousDK said:
Yeah, because the world is just a horrible place because sometimes it's ill advised to use hate speech and hide it under the guise of art. We should just go back to a time when hate speech was totally a-okay in the media.
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What hate speech are you freaking talking about, I'm talking about the fact that works of art are pressurized by Political Correctness to "include" certain elements when it's totally unnecessary, or they're forced to leave out certain things because it may "offend" some people.

[MENTION=4805]Viking_Poodle[/MENTION] Nah I want this conversation to be carried on, this is one of the things I'm really passionate about in today's society.
 
Because it's an actual issue. It is ridiculously rare that other issues are so vehemently contested when it comes to the design of the game and every time the depiction of women is brought up in the game, those making the statement are always put on the defensive. Seriously, we've gone what? 4 pages about this shit now when even the inclusion or exclusion of certain characters is rarely ever argued over this much. And it's because it's not always about the art. These discussions DO bring in politics, social relation discussions, and other more politically charged issues. Yeah, we're talking about MK, but a lot of people reveal their politics and their values more readily when THESE issues come up. We're talking about fiction, but let's not be obtuse and say that all we've been talking about is bad female character design. Because if that's all it was, everyone would have agreed to some extent that better representation of women would have been worthy where it actually made sense. But instead, those making the claim is being told it's just not at all important. Sure, it's someone's opinion to say as such, but of course you invite tiresome debates when a legitimate creative grievance is brought up. Honestly, the best response I've seen was from BBBLP who was at least bold enough to say outright that something like Mortal Kombat has no place for equality or inclusion. At LEAST that's a very honest statement that even I can respect. It's the handwaving of the issue as if it matters absolutely not is what the problem is. Not because it actually doesn't matter, but because despite our efforts, it's not just a discussion about Mileena's costume, it's about a social meme that EVERYONE has good and bad opinions on. And unfortunately, those kinds of opinions hold some very real social weight, no matter how benign we might perceive them.
 
Well my stance on the subject is that I could care less about the sexuality of it all because tbh they're freaking animated characters, they're not living, breathing humans, therefore the whole "they made em like that so guys could get their testosterone flowing" thing doesn't work on me.

I'm against the outfits because they just look stupid and unrealistic for a fight.

But BBBLP is right, this game is targeted for testosterone driven males, therefore I can see why NRS does it. That doesn't mean the effect is going to work on everyone, therefore it should be ignored if you aren't affected by it. My argument would be if NRS just randomly threw a gay man in there just so the other demographic that is not into it is pleased, I find that completely stupid and unnecessary.
 
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