About Jade's future

Commander said:
Seemed pretty instantaneous in MK9.
The characters died in 1 scene and suddenly they're all just there as revenants when Raiden appears in the NetherRealm.
I think you're confusing revenant for resurrected, which Kuai and Kanzo were, but the other revenants weren't.
Click to expand...

I meant it's not automatic. You need Quan Chi or Shinnok or someone to do it. You don't just become a revenant automatically. The writers said this on Twitter when asked about Mileena.

Your insistence on using the comics canon differentiation of Scorpion and Kuai Liang vs. the other revenants is becoming silly. The game does not support that differentiation. Vogel confirmed Scorpion is a revenant on his Twitter.

Commander said:
No.
Vogel said that Shang Tsung isn't inside of Sindel and that his power didn't get transferred into her, but he said no such thing about Shang Tsung not being dead.
Which ending alludes to Shang Tsung still being alive after MK9?
Click to expand...

Spoiler:
Ermac's and Mileena's. Both feature him as a disembodied voice scheming in the present. Ermac's suggests he's extremely weakened but alive and can restore himself by draining Ermac's souls.


Commander said:
Liu and Kitana were not freed from Quan Chi's magic.
Sonya even said to Hanzo that they needed Quan Chi alive, in order for Raiden to free the other revenants.
Click to expand...

What makes you think Sonya is an expert on revenant free will? She's repeating what Raiden told her, which is that restoring their humanity requires Quan Chi's presence.
 
I dont get this argument, i didnt say Baraka is going to stay dead forever, just that i dont see him coming back in MK11 since no one (in universe) seems to need specifically him or that he could be replaced relatively easily given the lack of visual diversity of the Tarkatans.
 
Imperatrix Sindel said:
Ermac's suggests he's extremely weakened but alive and can restore himself by draining Ermac's souls.
Click to expand...

Harry Potter and the Throne of Netherrealm, starring Takahashi Takeda as Harry Potter, Shang Tsung as He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, and introducing Ermac... as a silver unicorn!!!
 
Imperatrix Sindel said:
I meant it's not automatic. You need Quan Chi or Shinnok or someone to do it. You don't just become a revenant automatically. The writers said this on Twitter when asked about Mileena.

Your insistence on using the comics canon differentiation of Scorpion and Kuai Liang vs. the other revenants is becoming silly. The game does not support that differentiation. Vogel confirmed Scorpion is a revenant on his Twitter.



Spoiler:
Ermac's and Mileena's. Both feature him as a disembodied voice scheming in the present. Ermac's suggests he's extremely weakened but alive and can restore himself by draining Ermac's souls.




What makes you think Sonya is an expert on revenant free will? She's repeating what Raiden told her, which is that restoring their humanity requires Quan Chi's presence.
Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to the comics, but way to assume.
The game does support that differentiation because in 1 of the MKX intros Sub-Zero says that he was restored due to Quan Chi's magic, and in MK9 Hanzo was resurrected as Scorpion.
He even says it to Bi-Han in MK9.
"This is where I was reborn. This is where you will pay."
None of the MKX intros for the other characters support them being resurrected in MKX, so yes, that point still stands for Sub-Zero and Scorpion.

Ermac's ending still had Shang Tsung being dead as a disembodied voice, and it wasn't until 1 soul got free (Shang Tsung's) that he became himself again.
Suggesting that up until that point he was still dead.
Let me also remind you, once again, that MKX ending are non-canon "what if" scenarios, until proven otherwise in MK11.
Mileena died in MKX story mode, so her ending is a HUGE "what if," and it doesn't convince me of anything more than "this is a maybe scenario IF Mileena had lived in MKX."


I never said that Sonya is an expert on free will, but I'm pretty sure that if Raiden told her that then he's the expert on free will.
He's a god, after all, and last I checked Raiden is the one who reversed Quan Chi's spell to free Jax, Hanzo and Kuai-Liang, no?
 
Commander said:
I wasn't referring to the comics, but way to assume.
The game does support that differentiation because in 1 of the MKX intros Sub-Zero says that he was restored due to Quan Chi's magic, and in MK9 Hanzo was resurrected as Scorpion.
He even says it to Bi-Han in MK9.
"This is where I was reborn. This is where you will pay."
None of the MKX intros for the other characters support them being resurrected in MKX, so yes, that point still stands for Sub-Zero and Scorpion.

Ermac's ending still had Shang Tsung being dead as a disembodied voice, and it wasn't until 1 soul got free (Shang Tsung's) that he became himself again.
Suggesting that up until that point he was still dead.
Let me also remind you, once again, that MKX ending are non-canon until proven otherwise in MK11.
Mileena died in MKX story mode, so her ending is a HUGE "what if," and it doesn't convince me of anything other than more of a "this is a maybe scenario IF Mileena had lived."


I never said that Sonya is an expert on free will, but I'm pretty sure that if Raiden told her that then he's the expert on free will.
He's a god, after all, and last I checked Raiden is the one who reversed Quan Chi's spell to free Jax, Hanzo and Kuai-Liang, no?
Click to expand...

Again, we see in story mode that Johnny is about to be given a new body to become a revenant. It happened to all of them. I'm not going to argue about this with you again, as the game is extremely clear.

I mean he was clearly not THAT dead if he can be a disembodied voice, man. Dead people don't talk. His body might be inert but he's around.

Raiden turned them back into humans. That doesn't mean the revenants have no free will once Quan Chi is dead. These are two separate issues.
 
Imperatrix Sindel said:
Again, we see in story mode that Johnny is about to be given a new body to become a revenant. It happened to all of them. I'm not going to argue about this with you again, as the game is extremely clear.

I mean he was clearly not THAT dead if he can be a disembodied voice, man. Dead people don't talk. His body might be inert but he's around.

Raiden turned them back into humans. That doesn't mean the revenants have no free will once Quan Chi is dead. These are two separate issues.
Click to expand...

He was about to be resurrected, not become a revenant.
The rest of them were NOT resurrected, as MK9 is VERY clear that Quan Chi owned and gained ALL of those souls as per his deal with Shao Kahn, for his allegiance, but yeah I don't feel like further arguing that point again either.

Dead people do indeed talk in MK games, as is proof by the MK9 dead talking to Raiden, in the NetherRealm.

No.
Raiden broke the spell of being under Quan Chi's control.
Quan Chi made Kuai human again, and Hanzo regained his humanity later.
Quan Chi is needed to be alive in order for Raiden to force him to sever the tie between the revenants and make him set them free.
With Quan Chi dead, the revenants are still under the spell.
Quan Chi is needed to be alive for the spell to be reversed.
Raiden even said that to Bo Rai Cho.
 
Commander said:
He was about to be resurrected, not become a revenant.
The rest of them were NOT resurrected, as MK9 is VERY clear that Quan Chi owned and gained ALL of those souls as per his deal with Shao Kahn, for his allegiance, but yeah I don't feel like further arguing that point again either.

Dead people do indeed talk in MK games, as is proof by the MK9 dead talking to Raiden, in the NetherRealm.

No.
Raiden broke the spell of being under Quan Chi's control.
Quan Chi made Kuai human again, and Hanzo regained his humanity later.
Quan Chi is needed to be alive in order for Raiden to force him to sever the tie between the revenants and make him set them free.
With Quan Chi dead, the revenants are still under the spell.
Quan Chi is needed to be alive for the spell to be reversed.
Raiden even said that to Bo Rai Cho.
Click to expand...

Raiden very clearly makes Jax human again.

You are pulling at least 75% of this out of your ass and I'm not going to go back and forth again with you on it, so I'll just agree to disagree.
 
Imperatrix Sindel said:
Raiden very clearly makes Jax human again.

You are pulling at least 75% of this out of your ass and I'm not going to go back and forth again with you on it, so I'll just agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

Raiden breaks the spell on Jax.
He doesn't make him human.


I'm not pulling anything out of my ass.
Go and play through story mode again.........

MKX Quan Chi Raiden connection1.jpg

MKX Quan Chi Raiden connection2.jpg
 
What in either of those exchanges says anything about whether or not the revenants will have free will of their own if Quan Chi is killed? Absolutely nada.
 
Imperatrix Sindel said:
What in either of those exchanges says anything about whether or not the revenants will have free will of their own if Quan Chi is killed? Absolutely nada.
Click to expand...

The exchange between Scorpion and Sonya directly implies that Quan Chi must live in order for the spell to be reversed.
Scorpion says that Quan Chi must die, and Sonya replies with "Raiden needs him. Without Quan Chi we can't restore Liu Kang and the other revenants. You'd leave them trapped? Like you were?"

Raiden also says that Quan Chi's magic bind their souls.
With him captured they can force him to release them.
Plus, if the revenants got free will then Liu Kang, Kitana and Kung Lao would have been freed the minute that Quan Chi was decapitated, and that's NOT the case.
 
Commander said:
The exchange between Scorpion and Sonya directly implies that Quan Chi must live in order for the spell to be reversed.
Scorpion says that Quan Chi must die, and Sonya replies with "Raiden needs him. Without Quan Chi we can't restore Liu Kang and the other revenants. You'd leave them trapped? Like you were?"

Raiden also says that Quan Chi's magic bind their souls.
With him captured they can force him to release them.
Plus, if the revenants got free will then Liu Kang, Kitana and Kung Lao would have been freed the minute that Quan Chi was decapitated, and that's NOT the case.
Click to expand...

The spell, sure. The spell is what makes them revenants.

Free will =/= not being a corrupted revenant. There's a difference between 'being a revenant controlled by Quan Chi' and 'being a revenant'. Jax, Johnny, Scorpion and Sub-Zero were 'restored' to being human beings free of Netherrealm corruption. That's what Sonya and Raiden are talking about.

With Quan Chi dead, it's very likely (and the writers on Twitter have stated as much) that any direct control is gone and they are now revenants with free will. Still corrupted by the Netherrealm's magic, but making their own choices. Like Dark Raiden, corrupted by Shinnok's magic but still making his own decisions.
 
Imperatrix Sindel said:
Free will =/= not being a corrupted revenant. There's a difference between 'being a revenant controlled by Quan Chi' and 'being a revenant'. Jax, Johnny, Scorpion and Sub-Zero were 'restored' to being human beings free of Netherrealm corruption. That's what Sonya and Raiden are talking about.

With Quan Chi dead, it's very likely (and the writers on Twitter have stated as much) that any direct control is gone and they are now revenants with free will. Still corrupted by the Netherrealm's magic, but making their own choices. Like Dark Raiden, corrupted by Shinnok's magic but still making his own decisions.
Click to expand...

According to MKX, that's exactly what it was portraying, though.
Being under the spell = blindly following Quan Chi / Shinnok and blind loyalty the NetherRealm as a revenant.
Jax, Sub-Zero and Scorpion were free from being revenants and free from the spell and had their eyes opened and were in control of their own minds again, which is why Jax went into hiding on a farm and retired from the Special Forces.
The spell controlled their minds and brainwashed all of the revenants under its control.

With Quan Chi dead, the spell is not broken and the revenants remain blindly loyal to serving the NetherRealm, as is evident by the ending with Kitana and Liu Kang still serving the NetherRealm.
When Scorpion selfishly killed Quan Chi, he essentially screwed Liu Kang, Kitana, Kung Lao and the other revenants from being free and left them trapped in the NetherRealm, per the conversation with Sonya.
Dark Raiden was corrupted in the process of cleaning the Jinsei but he's still a god.
Liu, Kitana and Kung Lao are not gods, so they do not wield the same power that Raiden has, and Raiden can likely control the darkness better because of it..
 
Commander said:
According to MKX, that's exactly what it was portraying, though.
Being under the spell = blindly following Quan Chi / Shinnok and blind loyalty the NetherRealm.
Jax, Sub-Zero and Scorpion were free of the spell and had their eyes opened and were in control of their own minds again, which is why Jax went into hiding on a farm and retired from the Special Forces.
The spell controlled their minds and brainwashed all of the revenants under its control.

With Quan Chi dead, the spell is not broken and the revenants remain blindly loyal to serving the NetherRealm, as is evident by the ending with Kitana and Liu Kang still serving the NetherRealm.
When Scorpion selfishly killed Quan Chi, he essentially screwed Liu Kang, Kitana, Kung Lao and the other revenants from being free and left them trapped in the NetherRealm, per the conversation with Sonya.
Dark Raiden was corrupted in the process of cleaning the Jinsei but he's still a god.
Liu, Kitana and Kung Lao are not gods, so they do not wield the same power that Raiden has, and Raiden can likely control the darkness better because of it..
Click to expand...

What leads you to believe Kitana and Liu Kang are 'blindly' serving anything? Maybe their eyes opened and, as they're corrupted by dark magic, they like what they see. Jax himself accuses Kitana of enjoying being a revenant. If they were truly 100% not in control of their actions whatsoever, why would he say that? Surely he'd know better than anyone.

The rest of this 'well Raiden is a god, sooo' stuff is 100% your conjecture and I'm not going into it.

In any case we should probably stop because the poor OP was trying to talk about Jade, not about revenant metaphysics.
 
Imperatrix Sindel said:
What leads you to believe Kitana and Liu Kang are 'blindly' serving anything? Maybe their eyes opened and, as they're corrupted by dark magic, they like what they see. Jax himself accuses Kitana of enjoying being a revenant. If they were truly 100% not in control of their actions whatsoever, why would he say that? Surely he'd know better than anyone.

The rest of this 'well Raiden is a god, sooo' stuff is 100% your conjecture and I'm not going into it.

In any case we should probably stop because the poor OP was trying to talk about Jade, not about revenant metaphysics.
Click to expand...

What leads me to believe that they are blindly serving is because they choose to believe only what Quan Chi and Shinnok have fed to them.
MK9 alive Kitana and MK9 / MKX revenant Kitana are a total 180 degree turn for the character, and the latter seems to be the same type of magic in which Quan Chi used on Sindel, to brainwashing her into serving Shao Kahn.
LIVING / non-revenant Jax accuses Kitana of enjoying being a revenant.
It seemed like revenant Jax also enjoyed being a revenant in that part where he fights against Sonya / Johnny in Chapter 1.
"Johnny Cage. Killing you will be a pleasure."
He then later regrets all the things he did for Quan Chi, though, once the spell is broken.
I don't know about you, but I don't find any pleasure in killing (or the thought of killing) my friends.

I was merely throwing a possible reason as to why it could be possible for Raiden an not the others.

Agreed, but as for the OP topic, I still think that Jade's future will be as a reveanant for MK11, serving Liu-tana.
 
About the revenants, this is how I see it:

Quan Chi has their souls under his spell. But when he got them, they were, as shown in MK9, undead zombies. So to make them reach their full potential, Quan Chi turned them fully "human" again, through the use of his magic pool as shown on the stage. He basically resurrected them, but his magic kept them as his revenants.

When Raiden interfered with the magic, he broke the spell Quan Chi had over them, removing the revenant magic from them. Hence why Sub-Zero, Scorpion and Jax. It didn't wash away the "undeadness" from them, it washed away any sort of power Quan Chi had over them.

Now Quan Chi is dead, but we see the other revenants still being revenants. That's because the power Quan Chi used to turn them into revenants didn't wash away. Quan Chi's death is not enough. For them to turn back to normal, a mixture of Quan Chi's magic and Raiden's magic is needed. And now there's no more Quan Chi, so they are likely stuck in their revenant forms until another sorcerer with similar powers shows up, or maybe if Quan Chi returns to power.

As for Jade... since we haven't seen her anywhere, we actually don't know if she is indeed a revenant as well, or maybe somehting entirely else happened to her. Kitana's Arcade ending suggests that she did indeed not become a revenant for whatever reason.
 
theincubuslord said:
About the revenants, this is how I see it:

Quan Chi has their souls under his spell. But when he got them, they were, as shown in MK9, undead zombies. So to make them reach their full potential, Quan Chi turned them fully "human" again, through the use of his magic pool as shown on the stage. He basically resurrected them, but his magic kept them as his revenants.

When Raiden interfered with the magic, he broke the spell Quan Chi had over them, removing the revenant magic from them. Hence why Sub-Zero, Scorpion and Jax. It didn't wash away the "undeadness" from them, it washed away any sort of power Quan Chi had over them.

Now Quan Chi is dead, but we see the other revenants still being revenants. That's because the power Quan Chi used to turn them into revenants didn't wash away. Quan Chi's death is not enough. For them to turn back to normal, a mixture of Quan Chi's magic and Raiden's magic is needed. And now there's no more Quan Chi, so they are likely stuck in their revenant forms until another sorcerer with similar powers shows up, or maybe if Quan Chi returns to power.
Click to expand...

Yes.
This is exactly what I was trying to get at. :top:
I'm out of "Thanks" at the moment.
I'm thinking the same scenario as far as the revenants are concerned.


Jade, Noob, Shang Tsung and Cyrax are some weird unanswered maybes for MK11.
I could see them being in MK11, but I could also not see them being in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top