Tarkatan Trash
Active member
I can give you a source to back up the Fifth generation thing.
http://web.archive.org/web/19980709023020/http://mythologies.dragondata.com/SUBLIN01.html
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Let's discuss possible SubZero storylines
- Thread starter THEundying27
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I can give you a source to back up the Fifth generation thing.
http://web.archive.org/web/19980709023020/http://mythologies.dragondata.com/SUBLIN01.html
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Commander
Well-known member
I can't give "Thanks" at the moment, but I will, when I can.
Awesome.
Also here:
"A fifth generation Lin Kuei warrior, known by the name of Sub-Zero, once had a normal life in America."
http://www.totalmortalkombat.com/warriors/index.php?action=bio&id=44
Awesome.
Also here:
"A fifth generation Lin Kuei warrior, known by the name of Sub-Zero, once had a normal life in America."
http://www.totalmortalkombat.com/warriors/index.php?action=bio&id=44
Noob-Zer013
New member
I'm surprised. This kind of makes Kuai Liang feel a bit minor in the grand scheme of things. I've heard of Sub-Zero 5th, 6th etc but I never new it pertained to the games. I thought maybe it was an extension from the comic series.
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Noob-Zer013
New member
No, Noob Saibot's ending depicted him becoming ruler of the netherrealm with assistance from Havik.
Subz 711
New member
Thankyou! Yet nobody thinks, hmmm maybe Havik pulled Noob from the soulnado knowing how much chaos it would cause in the netherrealm trying to overthrow Shinnok. What you guys are overlooking at in that grand scheme is that Bi-Han would theoretically have to team up with Scorpion and Kuai Liang if he wanted to take down Shinnok and Quan because that's exactly what they're shooting for as well.
@Araknyd
I stand by what I said. You're picking and choosing what parts of the old timeline you want to happen. You say Mk4 probably won't happen and you say the Scorpion/Kuai dynamic can't happen. Yet, Bi-Han can take a plotline from Deception and the whole Grandmaster thing WILL come into play. So, you're also saying Bi-Han can take Kuai's storyline as well.
You can't get a "ruthless" demeanor from what we have seen so far. The ONLY thing we have seen that hints at Bi-Han is the "Shirai Ryu Dog" line. The "I tire of maintaining our innocence" line could easily be Kuai Liang via MK4".
We have seen NONE of this is context yet..NONE. We don't know what is happening at all.
BBBLP
Robot Rock
"Shirai Ryu Dog" makes perfect sense for Bi Han or a new Sub though.
Kuai Liang would not have Lin Kuei loyalty after what they did to him. And if he somehow does regain control of the Lin Kuei, he more than likely does so a member of the Forces of Light, so he wouldn't hold a grudge against a dead clan I'd imagine.
Again though, it's hard to judge with such a lack of info
Kuai Liang would not have Lin Kuei loyalty after what they did to him. And if he somehow does regain control of the Lin Kuei, he more than likely does so a member of the Forces of Light, so he wouldn't hold a grudge against a dead clan I'd imagine.
Again though, it's hard to judge with such a lack of info
Tarkatan Trash
Active member
What if this Subby is Chuck Norris?
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Noob-Zer013
New member
Whose to say Kuai Liang wouldn't insult the Shirai Ryu? I don't think we could rule that out as only being something Bi Han would say. Even if it is Kuai Liang, sure he wouldn't respect the former Lin Kuei no longer. But if it is him, then obviously he's back in the clan (possibly grand master?) and it wouldn't change his view points of Shirai Ryu.
But yes, there's still isn't enough information to go off of. I don't think we can rule out Kuai Liang. But how Boon has been answering these questions, it makes me want to lean towards a new Sub-Zero. Calling any Lin Kuei 'murderer' makes sense since Scorpion believing the entire clan murdered his family. It was the illusion that Bi Han killed his wife and child specifically.
Subz 711
New member
See, I leaned towards a new Sub-Zero (and honestly I would be fine with it). However, in one of Boon's interview he said Sub-Zero is a legacy character, but it's all explained in story mode. He then said story mode would let us know which ONE this is. So, apparently we know him.
I think we will see multiple Sub-Zero's and hoping that Scorpion has flashbacks of Bi-Han trying to differentiate him from his brother. I don't want Bi-han as the main Sub-Zero though. I would rather a brand new Sub-Zero than that.
Noob-Zer013
New member
Yes, very plausible. The biggest road block is how they would get around him being dead and cyberized. I know there's many theories out there but I can't help but think it were on purpose. At the same time though, they've mentioned there being a decent amount of returning characters. I'd be shocked if none of them were among the dead in MK9. Baren mentioned in an interview, that was their way of cleaning the slate. It all seems like more of a mess now if you ask me.
Taj Gill
New member
The Sub-Zero situation is a total, complete mess [MENTION=17726]Noob-Zer013[/MENTION].
What NRS did in the new timeline has proved to be the "omg thats such a cool idea, let's do it without evaluating the consequences", for Sub-Zero.
I'm honestly believing that NRS isn't telling us who this Sub-Zero is because they're having a hard time figuring it out, which is pretty sad but at the same time not surprising because they have been using the series' secondary mascot as a punching bag recently.
Let's all remember that in the NEW TIMELINE, the one that MKX is based off of, Sub-Zero is NOT a 5th Generation fighter due to both brothers being ABDUCTED by the Lin Kuei. Which has now led to more confusion because of all this talk of 5th Generations and what not, which apply to the old timeline only. And this whole "sea of Sub-Zeros" talk made me realize that it comes into conflict with this whole "abduction" story because Kuai and Han were abducted for the purpose of mastering their Cryomancer abilities for Lin Kuei purposes. Now all of a sudden, every Lin Kuei warrior can be a master of ice? Wtf?
Considering NRS has already retconned one aspect of Kuai's character (again another move they thought was cool without thinking of the consequences) by making him get angry at his brother's death and turning him Cyborg, how are they logically gonna "humanize" him again?
In terms of Bi-Han being the Sub-Zero, that in my eyes, is the only plausible theory because of the soulnado. Subsequently, the brand spanking new Sub-Zero would only work if Bi-Han has a kid after he gets purified. No way in hell would it be someone else because of the reasons I stated, unless NRS do another retcon which again would not surprise me.
Like I said, this situation is one big giant turd.
What NRS did in the new timeline has proved to be the "omg thats such a cool idea, let's do it without evaluating the consequences", for Sub-Zero.
I'm honestly believing that NRS isn't telling us who this Sub-Zero is because they're having a hard time figuring it out, which is pretty sad but at the same time not surprising because they have been using the series' secondary mascot as a punching bag recently.
Let's all remember that in the NEW TIMELINE, the one that MKX is based off of, Sub-Zero is NOT a 5th Generation fighter due to both brothers being ABDUCTED by the Lin Kuei. Which has now led to more confusion because of all this talk of 5th Generations and what not, which apply to the old timeline only. And this whole "sea of Sub-Zeros" talk made me realize that it comes into conflict with this whole "abduction" story because Kuai and Han were abducted for the purpose of mastering their Cryomancer abilities for Lin Kuei purposes. Now all of a sudden, every Lin Kuei warrior can be a master of ice? Wtf?
Considering NRS has already retconned one aspect of Kuai's character (again another move they thought was cool without thinking of the consequences) by making him get angry at his brother's death and turning him Cyborg, how are they logically gonna "humanize" him again?
In terms of Bi-Han being the Sub-Zero, that in my eyes, is the only plausible theory because of the soulnado. Subsequently, the brand spanking new Sub-Zero would only work if Bi-Han has a kid after he gets purified. No way in hell would it be someone else because of the reasons I stated, unless NRS do another retcon which again would not surprise me.
Like I said, this situation is one big giant turd.
Commander
Well-known member
I'm not picking and choosing anything.
I'm only saying that it's possible that Bi-Han got purified in the Soulnado, or that the elder gods somehow gave him another shot.
I don't give a shit about Scorpion's Deception storyline, because this is MK X, so I'm only making 1 assumation of what COULD happen.
I NEVER said anything about Bi-Han becoming Grandmaster or taking Kuai-Liang's story, so stop putting words in my mouth.
Yes, I CAN get a ruthless demeanor from Bi-Han saying "Shirai Ryu Dog" in his MK X intro.
That's specifically something that Bi-Han would say and leans more towards how he acts, not Kuai.
Need I remind you of MK9:
Scorpion: I will defeat Sub-Zero, but I will not kill him.
Bi-Han: Will not? or CANNOT?
Yes, thank you.
Also, agreed.
Kuai Liang hated the Lin Kuei for what they did to him in MK9, and all the terrible things that he did in MK9 for Shao Kahn as a cyborg.
I hardly doubt that he'd maintain loyalty to the Lin Kuei after what they did to him.
I'd be fine with a new Sub-Zero too.
However, Boon specifically said in the following, in the Gamespot interview:
^^
That doesn't sound like Ed hinting at a familiar Sub-Zero.
That sounds like Ed Boon hinting at a new Sub-Zero.
(18:24 mark)
I don't see a problem multiple Sub-Zero's, or even a new one in the MK X story line.
It could easily explain all his variations in MK X.
Taj Gill
New member
It doesn't make sense, story wise though. See my post above as to why.
Unless NRS do a 3rd retcon for Sub-Zero and the Lin Kuei for this timeline which is honestly getting pathetic.
Commander
Well-known member
MK9 seemed to go off of the theme of Cryomancers being a genetic thing too, though.
The only difference in MK9 was that the 2 Sub-Zero brothers were abducted, instead of being taken to the Lin Kuei by their father.
Taj Gill
New member
Exactly, but Kuai and Han were the only ones abducted as opposed to other Lin Kuei warriors. I assume they were abducted due to their Cryomancer abilities. This is why the "sea of Sub-Zero's" makes zero sense. If there are other cryomancers lying around, why were Kuai and Han the only ones abducted?
Commander
Well-known member
The sea of "Sub-Zero's" reference was likely Ed nodding at Sub-Zero being Bi-Han and Kuai-Liang in the past and that Frost was also a Cryomancer, meaning that an ancestor or pupil of one of the former Sub-Zero brothers is still possible.
At least that's how I interpreted it.
I don't think he literally meant it as there are hundreds of Sub-Zero's.
It came off as an exaggeration.
His Gamespot interview (posted above) seemed it indicate (vaguely) that Sub-Zero could be either one of the brothers or someone new.
"He is one of MANY Sub-Zeros" (as Ed said) also seems to point to Sub-Zero being a generational thing, meaning his father, grandfather and great-grandfather before him were also "Sub-Zero."
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BBBLP
Robot Rock
Where does it say that? In Sub-Zero's vignette it just mentions that they were abducted, not that they were the only ones abducted. I'd imagine that Smoke and Cyrax were also abducted.
Commander
Well-known member
Agreed.
It seems like the Link Kuei in MK9 are the equivalent of the human smuggling operation seen in the 90s Ninja Turtles live-action movies, where kids were kidnapped and joined an underground clan / gang as foot soldiers.
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