Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel Death's Cold Embrace!"

Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

I updated the combo damage post patch in the OP.

Now this 2 combos does the same damage:
43% Combo 9 hits: B+1,2 - Ice ball - 2,1,2 - X-Ray
43% Combo 12 hits: B+1,2 - Ice ball - NJP - Dash - B+1,2 - 2,1,2 - X-Ray

So now the second its totally useless because its harder to perform and does the same damage than the first, being the first a lot easier and shorter.

Also now this is the second most damaging combo and is really easy.
48% Combo 9 hits: B+1,2 - Ice ball - 2,1,4 - X-Ray

And this the most damaging.
50% Combo 10 hits: B+1,2 - Ice ball - Dash B - JP - 2,1,4 - X-Ray
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Personally, I found Subzero to be better for me after the patch, he does seem slightly faster which helps for aggressive fighters who don't mind a little defense on the side (me :P )
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

ruffneck Bass said:
Personally, I found Subzero to be better for me after the patch, he does seem slightly faster which helps for aggressive fighters who don't mind a little defense on the side (me :P )
Click to expand...

placebo effect lol...Sub-Zero's speed is the same
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

ruffneck Bass said:
Personally, I found Subzero to be better for me after the patch, he does seem slightly faster which helps for aggressive fighters who don't mind a little defense on the side (me :P )
Click to expand...

His speed is the same.

Who's that in your avatar?
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

I just won against a very good Mileena player with Sub-zero, it was a good game.
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

I've got BIG problems using Sub-Zero against good Raiden players, Ice Clone is basically useless and Ice Ball is useful only in combos.
I am starting to think that Sub-Zero has serious disadvantages against the god of thunder...should I just change character when I face Raiden? what are your thoughts?
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Asodimazze said:
I've got BIG problems using Sub-Zero against good Raiden players, Ice Clone is basically useless and Ice Ball is useful only in combos.
I am starting to think that Sub-Zero has serious disadvantages against the god of thunder...should I just change character when I face Raiden? what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Use jump and punish with 2,2.

Do the combos listed in the thread but replace B+1,2 with 2,2 It does a little less damage but is faster and more secure. After a teleport do 2,2, Raiden is not hard.
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Fox17 said:
Use jump and punish with 2,2.

Do the combos listed in the thread but replace B+1,2 with 2,2 It does a little less damage but is faster and more secure. After a teleport do 2,2, Raiden is not hard.
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I think Raiden's teleport is fast enough to block 22, and if he blocks it I'm screwed...I'm talking about GOOD Raiden players, not guys who only use teleport--->throw or superman.

edit: I was wrong, Raiden can't block 22 after teleport if timed right...thanks for the advice
 
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Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Asodimazze said:
I think Raiden's teleport is fast enough to block 22, and if he blocks it I'm screwed...I'm talking about GOOD Raiden players, not guys who only use teleport--->throw or superman.
Click to expand...

lol where did you get your banner?
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Asodimazze said:
I think Raiden's teleport is fast enough to block 22, and if he blocks it I'm screwed...I'm talking about GOOD Raiden players, not guys who only use teleport--->throw or superman.
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try down+3/4 after his teleport ..also uppercut works but the timing must be perfect for that to hit.
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Asodimazze said:
I've got BIG problems using Sub-Zero against good Raiden players, Ice Clone is basically useless and Ice Ball is useful only in combos.
I am starting to think that Sub-Zero has serious disadvantages against the god of thunder...should I just change character when I face Raiden? what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Hey bro. For Raiden, forget spamming the Ice Ball behind the Ice Clone. His teleport shuts that down. Forget trading with the Ice Ball. His teleport shuts that down. Forget your zoning techniques in general. His teleport shuts them all down.

Raiden's teleport is his clear strength against a Sub-Zero player. And what do most players do when they see a clear strength? They overuse it. So what you have to do is take that strength, and make it into his weakness. Teleport is punishable by 22 if you read it. Your job is to bait it, and make the read. Do not respect his space. Put pressure on him with 22, 224, 22, 224, on and on. Make him want to get out of that corner he's fast approaching. Or put up an Ice Clone after 224 and F dash making him think you're about to do Ice Ball. Do whatever you have to do to bait that teleport. Once he does, 22 - Ice Ball. And there's your free 30% dmg combo. 46% if you're using X-Ray to close out the round.

Hope this helps.
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

kaballer said:
Hey bro. For Raiden, forget spamming the Ice Ball behind the Ice Clone. His teleport shuts that down. Forget trading with the Ice Ball. His teleport shuts that down. Forget your zoning techniques in general. His teleport shuts them all down.

Raiden's teleport is his clear strength against a Sub-Zero player. And what do most players do when they see a clear strength? They overuse it. So what you have to do is take that strength, and make it into his weakness. Teleport is punishable by 22 if you read it. Your job is to bait it, and make the read. Do not respect his space. Put pressure on him with 22, 224, 22, 224, on and on. Make him want to get out of that corner he's fast approaching. Or put up an Ice Clone after 224 and F dash making him think you're about to do Ice Ball. Do whatever you have to do to bait that teleport. Once he does, 22 - Ice Ball. And there's your free 30% dmg combo. 46% if you're using X-Ray to close out the round.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

This helps a lot! I really appreciate it :)
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

kaballer said:
Hey bro. For Raiden, forget spamming the Ice Ball behind the Ice Clone. His teleport shuts that down. Forget trading with the Ice Ball. His teleport shuts that down. Forget your zoning techniques in general. His teleport shuts them all down.

Raiden's teleport is his clear strength against a Sub-Zero player. And what do most players do when they see a clear strength? They overuse it. So what you have to do is take that strength, and make it into his weakness. Teleport is punishable by 22 if you read it. Your job is to bait it, and make the read. Do not respect his space. Put pressure on him with 22, 224, 22, 224, on and on. Make him want to get out of that corner he's fast approaching. Or put up an Ice Clone after 224 and F dash making him think you're about to do Ice Ball. Do whatever you have to do to bait that teleport. Once he does, 22 - Ice Ball. And there's your free 30% dmg combo. 46% if you're using X-Ray to close out the round.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I don't see the 22,224,22,224 pressure workout.. after a blocked 22 I believe hes able to punish with electric fly. Thats actually my main problem with subs close-pressure against fast chars ..I mainly go for 22-if blocked-4xxiceclone/slide (or get back in with) 22-if not blocked-xxfreeze

also I do have problems "foreseeing" his teleport and input 22 before hes on your backside. Most times subby is hitting in the wrong direction, while hes allrdy at your back.. :/ but ..lucky me there arent that many "good" raiden players @europe ..(onestly I wish NRS released an Region/Worldwide option, if the netcode patch is any good ..)
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Asodimazze said:
This helps a lot! I really appreciate it :)
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No problem! Read the response below if you need some added details regarding what I meant by 22 224 pressure.

rinc-e said:
I don't see the 22,224,22,224 pressure workout.. after a blocked 22 I believe hes able to punish with electric fly. Thats actually my main problem with subs close-pressure against fast chars ..I mainly go for 22-if blocked-4xxiceclone/slide (or get back in with) 22-if not blocked-xxfreeze
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have clarified. I do not mean 22 224 22 224 in that specific order.

Usually, what you want to do is apply continuous pressure with 224, which is safe. When the opponent expects 224, do 22 22. Why would this work? Because when the opponent sees you did not finish the string with 4, they will attempt to punish you with a hit of their own. However, because they were expecting 4 and did not expect just 22, they are releasing block and inputting their punish on reaction. Your second 22 should hit them before they are able to punish the first 22 due to your action being premeditated, not on reaction. From there, confirm 22 into Ice Ball.

Or, if the opponent did not attempt to punish and continued to block, confirm 22 into 4 and continue to pressure with 224 until you push the opponent into the corner and, in Raiden's case, bait the teleport.

P.S. I'd like to apologize for disregarding your damage values before. I didn't realize I was playing the unpatched version of the game until a couple of days ago. I edited the guide with damage outputs from the most recent patch.
 
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Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

Kaballer means that you can use 2,2 or 2,2,4, you switch them. Is not a combo.
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

While not his most damaging combo string 2,2 is deadly not just because it leads into mind games but also because your opponent cant simply jump over it like a lot of subzeros other combos just goes to show the balancing act nrs is walking when you look at the pros and cons of moves both because of damage and punishability
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

kaballer said:
No problem! Read the response below if you need some added details regarding what I meant by 22 224 pressure.



Sorry, I should have clarified. I do not mean 22 224 22 224 in that specific order.

Usually, what you want to do is apply continuous pressure with 224, which is safe. When the opponent expects 224, do 22 22. Why would this work? Because when the opponent sees you did not finish the string with 4, they will attempt to punish you with a hit of their own. However, because they were expecting 4 and did not expect just 22, they are releasing block and inputting their punish on reaction. Your second 22 should hit them before they are able to punish the first 22 due to your action being premeditated, not on reaction. From there, confirm 22 into Ice Ball.

Or, if the opponent did not attempt to punish and continued to block, confirm 22 into 4 and continue to pressure with 224 until you push the opponent into the corner and, in Raiden's case, bait the teleport.
Click to expand...

So its basically what I'm doing allrdy ..only more risky ..going for a 22-blocked, 22xxfreeze/4xxclone fast chars will try to combo u/punish u after the first blocked 22 ..also I can see an uppercut work well while recoveryframes of 22.. and down+3/4 gets them back in a safer position ..

P.S. I'd like to apologize for disregarding your damage values before. I didn't realize I was playing the unpatched version of the game until a couple of days ago. I edited the guide with damage outputs from the most recent patch.
Click to expand...

Np! ..I just thought so (; ..soo u still think b21 is faster than 22? (do u have any framerate-data?) ..

I like to use b12 when they are lying on the ground and finish with 4 if blocking high or 1xxclone if they certainly block down.
 
Re: Sub-Zero Thread - "Feel the Cold Embrace of Death"

rinc-e said:
So its basically what I'm doing allrdy ..only more risky ..going for a 22-blocked, 22xxfreeze/4xxclone fast chars will try to combo u/punish u after the first blocked 22 ..also I can see an uppercut work well while recoveryframes of 22.. and down+3/4 gets them back in a safer position ..

Np! ..I just thought so (; ..soo u still think b21 is faster than 22? (do u have any framerate-data?) ..

I like to use b12 when they are lying on the ground and finish with 4 if blocking high or 1xxclone if they certainly block down.
Click to expand...


2,2 is faster and safer than B+1,2 the rival cant jump or dash 2,2.
 
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