Which Sub-Zero should return for MK10?

[Subz 711]

It's 8 games to 2.

Oh really? He's been the main Sub-Zero in more than 1 of the fighting games? I know you're talking about UMK3 and he still was not the main Sub-Zero. His brother was. He was just a non-canon add in.

You honestly can't tell me Kuai liang has done anything to improve the Character outside of becoming the Grandmaster. Yeah he found frost and his cryomancer origin. He added nothing to the over all story like his brother did.

Yes, I do in fact think that he did do more to enhance the character. If you are talking about the Sub-Zero character in general I think of Kuai Liang. I never think of Bi-Han. I think of Kuai LIang abandoning the Lin Kuei, his friend being turned cyber, Taking back the Lin Kuei, etc... Yes, for the overall character of just Sub-Zero I definitely do think Kuai Liang did it more justice than did his brother.

Your argument of importance in the story means nothing to me, becaue not everyone is interested in the main story. For the longest I knew Liu Kang was always going to be the spotlight hog so the main story mean's nothing to me. As it doesn't have to. I'm sure other Sub-Zero fans could agree. If anything everything that went on with Sub-Zero and Scorpion was probably Subplot B. Meaning the second main story anyway. It doesn't matter if Bi-Han caused it or not. Because I never cared about the main story, at the end of the day I knew Liu Kang was going to win and save the day rinse and repeat.

When Bi han was Sub Zero he found the medallion for Quan Chi and help set up the story for MK4 and Quanchi turning on Shinnok, Killed scorpion, gods, and not only did he do those things he gave rise to 3 of the most popular characters in the Game, Scorpion, Sub Zero, and Noob saibot. You said in a different thread that Kuai Liang brought honor to the name Sub Zero, in the way you define honor yes he did. But within the Lin Kuei, and the standard set by his Brother he has brought nothing but shame to the name seeing as how, he disobyes orders, refused to kill when told to do so, and joined the forces of light. Bi han may have been neutral but he was devoted to his Clan and did anything asked of him. Including killing unjustly.

So now you're giving him credit for making Scorpion popular too? Wow, he must have some magical powers or something? Seriously I love how you have called me fanboy and blinded by Kuai Liang in the past, because you are showing just how biased you are in the other direction right now.

Also, it's funny because him retrieving the amulet for Quan Chi could have resulted in all of Earthrealm being enslaved. If he would have still been alive that would have included him too. So yeah, he's not exactly the bright one is he?

You can see the difference in respect the lin kuei had for the brothers during the MK1 and Mk3 parts of MK9 it went Sub Zero, Sektor, then Cyrax during Mk1. Then During the Mk3 Part of MK9 it went Sektor then Cyrax with Kuai Liang being last. So going on that small bit of information, the Lin kuei must see him as an inferior version. Why else would he go from general to lacky? and even if you come back with He's younger, so that doesn't matter, remember you said he is the stronger of the two so why wouldn't he just take the position his brother held? Could it be he was less repected? Or could it be he was not on the level his older brother was?.

Okay let's discuss this for a moment shall we? There are actual gangs in this world. Actually there are gangs in this world that make you rape a woman before you are initiated. You mean to tell me that's honorable?

Take Bi-Han he blindly followed the Lin Kuei's every order and listened to them no matter what. He was loyal, but not honorable. He murdered people without a second thought, and this could have included families. It meant nothing to him.

Then, compare him to his brother. It's obvious his brother had problems with the Lin Kuei up until he finally left. Like you said he was probably a subordinate. You want to take a guess why though? It's not because he's less powerful, it's because he wouldn't follow those orders like his brother would. Most likely he killed, but something about killing didn't sit right with him. His brother however was an expert at it, and in all aspects loved killing.

My point is blindly following a clan is not honorable, it is naive. Bi-han would have been one of the first one's signing up for automation had he been alive, and that doesn't make him honorable either it makes him dumb. Being loyal to a clan does not make you honorable is what I'm getting at. A clan who murders for money is not honorable, they're sick.

Kuai Liang may have killed, but as I said it probably didn't sit well with him. This all resulted with Kuai Liang finally growing sick when talks of automation arose and he did the honorable thing and left. Can you imagine what leaving something you have been with virtually your whole life because you know it's wrong must feel like? Can you not imagine the fear he must have had knowing that they would come after him in large numbers. Still though, he had more balls than his brother and dropped their arses like a bad habit.

That's honorable. You are confusing honor with loyalty. Kuai Liang certainly was not loyal to the Lin Kuei, but I see no reason why he should have been either.

And you also Said that Kuai liang beating Noob Saibot is proof that he's stornger then Bi Han, but through out entire conversation you say Noob isn't Bi Han? You can't have him be what you want when it helps your point then turn around and say something different when it works against you. The point I'm trying to make is we don't know what bi Han could do if he was to become Sub Zero again, But we know what Kuai liang can do, we've already seen it and with the change set up in MK9 it seems Nrs does not wanna take that path again.

You're a liar. Flat out I have no other words to say, but you're a liar.

The whole argument, and I hope at least Metal comes to my aid here, I took the side that Noob Saibot is Bi-Han. That was my whole argument.

Your whole argument was that the two were seperate beings. I said that Bi-Han and Noob Saibot were the same being thus why they cannot be seperated by the soulnado.

The only time I said anything even remotely like that was when you and araknyd said "No, there's Noob and there's Saibot" because Boon said it.

To which I replied well if Noob Saibot is split then that would equal Noob and Saibot, but neither of those equals Bi-Han. So what the hell does that even mean?

You're clearly lying and placing words in my mouth though when you say that I said Bi-han and Noob Saibot were different beings because my whole argument revolved around the two being the same. Bi-Han is Noob Saibot. WHich is why I said Kuai Liang beating Noob Saibot proves that Kuai Liang is just as poweful if not more powerful than his brother.

 

[AMES32]

Yes that's why I said and keep saying "WITHIN THE Lin Kuei."

I don't see how respect among a group of Assassin's can equate to Gangrape? Kuai Liang did not follow his "FAMILY TRADITION" thuss bringing shame to the "FAMILY NAME." So if it was Honorable leaving after being given an order? Lets take modern conventions what he did was "Desertion." The most dishonorible act anyone can do to a squad, Clan or Group. He disobeyed orders.

Yes he's as much responsible Scorpion's popularity as Scorpion is for his.

Yeah and Noob = Bi Han corrupted. So if neither Noob nor saibot is Bi han then? What else could you mean. If Noob was separated from the corruption "saibot" He would return to being Bi han.

 

[Subz 711]

Yes that's why I said and keep saying "WITHIN THE Lin Kuei."

I don't see how respect among a group of Assassin's can equate to Gangrape? Kuai Liang did not follow his "FAMILY TRADITION" thuss bringing shame to the "FAMILY NAME." So if it was Honorable leaving after being given an order? Lets take modern conventions what he did was "Desertion." The most dishonorible act anyone can do to a squad, Clan or Group. He disobeyed orders.

Yes he's as much responsible Scorpion's popularity as Scorpion is for his.

Yeah and Noob = Bi Han corrupted. So if neither Noob nor saibot is Bi han then? What else could you mean. If Noob was separated from the corruption "saibot" He would return to being Bi han.

Nope you're wrong.

How do you not understand that if a group of individuals is not worth following that he is not dishonorable by not following it. That's what you are saying, that he's dishonorable because he doesn't follow a league of killers. The reason I bring up the gangrape thing is because imagine The Lin Kuei made Bi-Han and Kuai Liang rape someone. Bi-Han does it, and Kuai Liang doesn't. How is that in any way, shape, or form honorable? Just as the Lin Kuei murdered unjustly and Kuai Liang had a problem with it. That's being an honorable person. He is not bringing honor to his family. He said that he would take the name that has been passed through his family "Sub-Zero" and bring honor to it. That's what he meant by saying this. He did this as well because he went back to the Lin Kuei reformed them into a force for good, and that's that. You defending the clans actions as honorable does not make them honorable. They were not an honorable clan and Kuai Liang abandoning them is not negative in anyway nor does it make him any less of a person than Bi-Han. If anything it makes Bi-han a follower and Kuai Liang a leader. Simple as that. You can say he "Deserted" them, but he did take one of the honorable ones with him in Smoke. He just knew that the rest of the clan was full of evil and he wanted nothing to do with it anymore. It would be like being in the army and your group pisses on citizens and rapes the women. You are not dishonorable for not wanting to be a part of that.

No Sub-Zero, Kuai Liang or Bi-han, is not responsible for Scorpion's popularity. I'm not a fan of Scorpion like at all, but I'm a diehard Sub-Zero fan. So there you go Scorpion's popularity is not owed to Sub-Zero like you suggest. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who are fans of Scorpion, but not Sub-Zero as well.

Also, let me ask you this. Who told you that Bi-Han was Noob or Saibot? That's right nobody did. Which was my point.

My exact f'ng point nobody told you that Bi-han is Noob you're just assuming. Just like you're assuming that Saibot is the corruption.

Boon's words were "There's Noob and there's Saibot". What did I answer to this?

I said how does that make any sense? If there's Noob and Saibot that still does not equate to Bi-han. Which proved my point that he was merely joking that Boon = Noob, and Saibot = Tobias. He was not saying they were different beings AT ALL. He was joking because saying there's Noob and there's Saibot does not = Bi-Han. That just equals something Boon was joking about that you took waaaay to seriously.

He never specified if Noob is Bi-Han or if Saibot is Bi-Han. He just said there's Noob and there's Saibot which you took way too seriously and are making them into two different beings without that being even remotely official. Noob cannot be seperated from the "corruption" because the corruption is him. The "corruption" is bad things he done in life, the evil in his own soul which Quan Chi allowed to consume him once he reached the netherrealm. That's why Bi-han is Noob Saibot. My God, I can't do this anymore. It's like beating my head against a brick wall with you. You just don't understand anything, and have now took my like five page argument (That Noob Saibot and Bi-Han are one and the same) and tried to say that I was saying they were different individuals. Do you not understand anything? Or do you just like trying to spin people's words and make an argument the most confusing thing as possible by putting words in people's mouths?

 

[AMES32]

My god you are annoying. I'm done talking to you about this, nothing Kuai Liang did in the eyes of his father/ Brother is Honorable. In their world it's live and die by the sword. Kuai Liang didn't follow that. In your eyes he's Honorable. But within the world of MK and the eyes of his family he's nothing but a Deserter.

Noob is Bi han, because saibot was infused with the body of Bi Han. And it's funny because you think I'm going off the Tobias/Boon thing but I'm not. The Noob and saibot thing came from a piece of Mk 9 concept art. Where it showed Noob throwing saibot doing the shadow kick.

And you showed your true fanboy, equating Gangrape in any fashion to a video game character.

I should let it be know I'm not arguing because I like the characters. I'm arguing my point because I'm very stubborn and hardheaded

 

[Subz 711]

My god you are annoying. I'm done talking to you about this, nothing Kuai Liang did in the eyes of his father/ Brother is Honorable. In their world it's live and die by the sword. Kuai Liang didn't follow that. In your eyes he's Honorable. But within the world of MK and the eyes of his family he's nothing but a Deserter.

Noob is Bi han, because saibot was infused with the body of Bi Han. And it's funny because you think I'm going off the Tobias/Boon thing but I'm not. The Noob and saibot thing came from a piece of Mk 9 concept art. Where it showed Noob throwing saibot doing the shadow kick.

And you showed your true fanboy, equating Gangrape in any fashion to a video game character.

I was done with this conversation last night, but then you came in this thread and had to directly go after who else, but me??? You just couldn't leave could you?

Take a look in the mirror, and you will see annoying.

As far as we know Kuai and Bi-Han's father is either dead or gone. Don't say anything about how he would feel about Kuai Liang. Kuai Liang wasn't trying to impress either though. That's what I'm saying. He didn't say he would bring honor to his family. He said I will bring honor to the name Sub-Zero. Yes, it's a family name, but he could mean this name has been dishonored for so long, but he's going to take it and make it honorable. You ever think about that? So regardless if he's honorable in his father/brother's eyes, he is saying he is going to bring honor to something which did not have any. THey murdered unjustly, and were basically thugs. He deserted a clan who deserved to be deserted? Would you be turned into an f'ng cyborg willingly? I don't think so Jack.

Also, the whole gangrape thing was to get a point across. Gangrape is no better than murdering someone which is what Bi-Han was doing. I was using an example I heard of recently that I did not know of about Gangs using rape as a means of initiation.

You proved you are a fanboy by equating all of SCORPION'S, Sub-Zero, and Noob Saibot's popularity to Bi-han. When he clearly does not deserve that. Fanboy.

Please, after you read this. Ignore it, as I'm so God as my witness going to try and do to you. I can be civil in arguing with anyone else, and even through Critical and Metal's comments I seen that I needed to semi accept Cyber Subz and I have. You bring nothing productive though besides throwing the same idea out for Sub-Zero over and over and thinking it makes sense. It doesn't though.

All evidence still as far as I can see still points to Kuai Liang being Sub-Zero again (Cyber or Not). Why? Because he's still Sub-Zero. He didn't stop being Sub-Zero when he died. Bi-Han did. In all aspects if there is a mass ressurrection he will be among them and he will be Sub-Zero when he's revived.

Argument Over.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Yeah, Subz has been saying that Noob= Bi-Han for the longest, that's why he's against Bi-Han becoming Sub-Zero in the first place, not just because he likes Kuai Liang more, but objectively, he believes that it is impossible for the two to ever seperate since Noob and Bi-Han are one in the same.

I wouldn't accredit Scorpion's popularity to Bi-Han either, because if that's the case, then the Elder Gods splitting up the One Being's conscience should be credited for everyone's popularity since that event created the MK universe itself. Bi-Han may have a hand in creating Scorpion, but Scorpion became popular due to his own merits, not because of Bi-Han.

 

[AMES32]

No. he Said Noob saibot as a whole is Bi Han one character and if you took Saibot away he'd have too die. My thing was Noob = Bi Han and the corruption = Saibot (seperate entity) two characters that made up Noob saibot. Seeing as how Ermac is many made one I don't see why Bi Han and Saibot can't be separate beings using one body. When Ermac is just that.

I get what you're saying though.

 

[Metal Overlord]

No. he Said Noob saibot as a whole is Bi Han one character and if you took Saibot away he'd have too die.

That's pretty much the same thing though lol. He's saying that the corruption inside of Noob is a part of Bi-Han, and that in order to become human again, we'd have to purify his soul, therefore killing Noob Saibot's character. That's where your argument comes into play, you're arguing that the corruption of Bi-Han's soul is Saibot; the evil in his soul has been manifested into a separate being and that seperating Bi-Han and Saibot wouldn't result in the death of Noob Saibot since they are seperate beings within the same body.

 

[BBBLP]

Saibot could easily become his own character. When separated in the soulnado, Saibot took with it the corruption that Bi Han initially had in his soul. It was enough darkness in fact, that it allows Saibot to live without a host. No longer under Quan Chi's control and with no binding to Bi Han's body, this shadow incarnate sets out to fulfil it's own motives.



Boom, Saibot theory right there

 

[AMES32]

That's pretty much the same thing though lol. He's saying that the corruption inside of Noob is a part of Bi-Han, and that in order to become human again, we'd have to purify his soul, therefore killing Noob Saibot's character. That's where your argument comes into play, you're arguing that the corruption of Bi-Han's soul is Saibot; the evil in his soul has been manifested into a separate being and that seperating Bi-Han and Saibot wouldn't result in the death of Noob Saibot since they are seperate beings within the same body.

Exactly. I think the corruption was Bi Hans sin fused with a soul and put back in and used to bend Bi han to Quan chi's will.

 

[RockHardMilkGun]

As long as I got Noob any new Sub-Queero can blow me