The Difference Between Zoning and Spamming
- Thread starter Matt Wilson
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Critical-Limit
New member
Krazyhugo, It's annoying because you don't know your tools still.
Enhanced dragon kick WILL go through the running charge shadow clone.
Doesn't NORMAL dragon kick go over the sliding clone? pretty sure the sliding clone is considered ducking and you can fly over it and hit noob.
poopingtoad
New member
zoning=a name that spammers came up with so noone would make fun of them!!!!!! xD
Emperordad
New member
Spamming = a name that people who can't block came up with so none would make fun of them!!!!!! xD
Roland
New member
LMAO, indeed. I love playing against a good zoner. You'd be surprised how much you can learn from trying to break it up. Great thread.
chessmaster
New member
people are confused. it doesn't have to be a projectile or special to be spam. people spam scorpions 1,1,1 all the time. spam is doing the same thing over and over, not just specials.
boX
New member
Critical-Limit
New member
Although I agree with you chess master. Most time people complain though is when it's a special move. Which is why people talk about that more.
LOL I read your post and decided to finally register because I'm almost sure it was me who you were against on the deadpool stage!
Your biggest mistake was choosing Liu Kang. Second, you didn't block when and how you should. You kept standing and blocking and jumping toward me leaving yourself open. Don't blame me for spamming when it was your poor misjudgment and mistake. For someone who is "okay" at the game took too much of an aggressive approach, lost, and blamed them for spamming when I actually tried keeping you back and trapping you in the corner. Learn Noob Saibot and figure out a work-a-round. Pretty simple.
To the topic:
With Noob Saibot, there is a strong distinction between spamming and zoning. Let me clarify; for anyone who uses Noob Saibot can see a strong distinction.
Zoning requires strategy and quick thinking; seeing an open opportunity (not blocking how/when they should) and acting upon it.
Spamming is mindlessly and repetitiously doing the same thing because its easy and cheap - its what you depend on to win.
It saddens me how utterly weak Noob Saibot is, but when the opponent gets cornered, its almost over for him if you know how to trap them. Because Noob, IMO, has piss-poor weak combos, I have to depend on his projectiles to keep people back.
I NEVER use the teleport unless I notice the opponent jumping a lot (plus it seldomly works even if they don't block), and I will only use the ghost ball against someone who actively uses projectiles too, like Liu Kang (but not Sub-Zero). The hint is getting them to realize 'no chip dmg'. I usually blast someone a few times with it, yes it gets blocked, but eventually, that person will try to squeeze in a shot but once the ghost ball hits (at the sacrifice of taking dmg), I X-Ray. Other than that, it's about the 'open' opportunity and deception (tricking people to take the offensive and approach aggressively). If they're standing/blocking, I shadow slide from a range; I EX slide to bring them close for a combo. Once they get the message and duck block, I move forward only a little and stop. As they turtle, I will "spam" to chip dmg them and get them moving - it works A LOT. That usually brings them in range for a shadow knee so you can move in again with a combo.
Raiden whores that wakeup with superman will usually eat a shadow dash right as they get up (applies to other characters too) to keep them down, or to stop them from using that stupid superman and closing the distance. I also hate those people who are Sub-Zero that almost always wake up with a slide. It's just best to get far enough, about jump range, to shadow dash as they get up. They do the SAME thing and obviously get pissed receiving the same move over and over again.
If I stay back and they aggressively move forward, which usually is by jumping to avoid shadow dash/slide, I get outside sweep range and use the shadow knee and move in. I always have people griping about the way I play, esp. some Kung Lao people because they depend so much on their midair kick.
It's a simple strategy of keeping people back, or as non-Noob users will put it, spamming shadow dash/slide.
The theme here: using "noob" projectiles to keep opponents away or down so they can't combo you.
To sum it up, anyone who uses Noob Saibot is called a "Noob" whether or not you destroy people. Heard it 1,000,000 times and probably will another million more. In fact, some Scorpion user who was 0-0 cussed me out on a voicemail saying the same shit I've heard since the game came out. "Only noobs use Noob Saibot." Very original.
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DaFunk
New member
THIS. I have had a few fun fights against zoners/spammers but eventually it begins to grate on me, still this is the first fighting game that I have continuously played beyond a week after release.
@Chessmaster
I believe you can spam a combo but you cannot be insulted for doing so. If the characters had more then 2/3 combo starters then I'd say using one combo is spam, however, we don't have the luxury to create long combos off ALL the combo strings in the move list so we are technically being forced to do pretty much the same combo, generally because it's the most effective.
Take Kitana for example, She has a couple of launchers (f2,1 & f4+1) so I am forced to use those two launchers to get a large combo going. I don't have any other options, combo wise, unless I want to use the smaller, less damaging combos of 4/5 hits. To take a decent amount of life, I would need to hit a 10/11 hit combo and I can only do that off the two launchers. Obviously there are other options for starting combos (catching someone mid-jump with an air fan etc.) but when your both grounded, these are the only two options for high damage combos.
Now, just because those launchers are your only options for big combos, it doesn't mean you should continuously go for the same high damage combo, but I can understand why people would and I don't think it's wrong. We don't get Tekken movelists after all.
yautjared
New member
Well, take as example this situation here :
Zoning with Reptile : Reptile is known for having a basic zonning sequence, pretty efficient : slow Force Ball >> Fast Force Ball >> Acid Spit .... why he uses this ? Simple : he wants to connect at least one Force Ball in order to start his combo with 3,1 + another Force Ball, but, if the first Force Ball fails, he tries the second one, if fails, the Acid Spit is the last resort to try to cause some damage, while, keeping the enemy in some distance .... Normally, experient players don't abuse of this traditional sequence, trying one or twice in a row, maximum, and next, paying attention what his opponent is doing, for, later, try again this if the enemy is being too much agressive, rushdown and trying to force Reptile to stay in the corner .....
Spamming with Reptile : a dude player just start to toss Force Balls and Acid Spit as no tomorrow, staying 90% of the time in the full screen distance, in the opposite corner, waiting for his opponent to eat every projectile ..... if enemy start to block dash and coming near, this dude player start to spam Reptile's Elbow Dash, and, as soon as he can gain distance, start spamming projectiles again
XD
Zoning with Reptile : Reptile is known for having a basic zonning sequence, pretty efficient : slow Force Ball >> Fast Force Ball >> Acid Spit .... why he uses this ? Simple : he wants to connect at least one Force Ball in order to start his combo with 3,1 + another Force Ball, but, if the first Force Ball fails, he tries the second one, if fails, the Acid Spit is the last resort to try to cause some damage, while, keeping the enemy in some distance .... Normally, experient players don't abuse of this traditional sequence, trying one or twice in a row, maximum, and next, paying attention what his opponent is doing, for, later, try again this if the enemy is being too much agressive, rushdown and trying to force Reptile to stay in the corner .....
Spamming with Reptile : a dude player just start to toss Force Balls and Acid Spit as no tomorrow, staying 90% of the time in the full screen distance, in the opposite corner, waiting for his opponent to eat every projectile ..... if enemy start to block dash and coming near, this dude player start to spam Reptile's Elbow Dash, and, as soon as he can gain distance, start spamming projectiles again
XD
EduardimusPrime
New member
This thread made me want to join this forum because I've had this conversation with so many other gamers. Haha!
Spamming and zoning seems like an argument that goes all the way back to before the street fighter II days and this is there general consensus that my buddies and I have reached regarding spam:
When we DO spam, it's intended as an insult to the other player's skill level because we know they're not yet good enough to work through it. (usually a joke between friends)
Lets face it... No one likes getting spammed, but if you're playing a spammer and you can't work around their spam, there's something wrong with your game... A good player should be able to work past tactics like this. A spammer that's winning has no reason to change their tactics in a match, because they found a formula that works for them (so far), however; It won't work forever and they WILL loose when faced against a player with a higher skill level.
I play Noob on occasion and maybe it's just the people I play, but continually using his shadow clone with no effort, or intention to use any other move (spamming) never works against skilled players.
Spamming and zoning seems like an argument that goes all the way back to before the street fighter II days and this is there general consensus that my buddies and I have reached regarding spam:
When we DO spam, it's intended as an insult to the other player's skill level because we know they're not yet good enough to work through it. (usually a joke between friends)
Lets face it... No one likes getting spammed, but if you're playing a spammer and you can't work around their spam, there's something wrong with your game... A good player should be able to work past tactics like this. A spammer that's winning has no reason to change their tactics in a match, because they found a formula that works for them (so far), however; It won't work forever and they WILL loose when faced against a player with a higher skill level.
I play Noob on occasion and maybe it's just the people I play, but continually using his shadow clone with no effort, or intention to use any other move (spamming) never works against skilled players.
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yautjared
New member
That's a very good point of view ......
In fact, some spammers, specially, people who you notice that have very few amount of online games, kinda less than 100 matches total (counting W + L), and, when playing, you see they are inexperienced and/or lacks familiarity with MK 2011, or maybe, even with fighting games in general .... I tell you , a lot of these players get in panic state when you start to dash block fast as hell, plus crouching and jumping as a true ninja, avoiding everything they throw at you, and, in a split second, you are close enough to link a combo ....
Well as Noob being my main, I understand where you're coming from. Most Noob players that I come across in fact spam the shadow dash. I agree it's annoying and there's no strategy whatsoever.
The essay I wrote above is a strategy that works most of the time (unless the opp. is really really good) and I'm sticking with it.
So to make it easier for Noob haters to understand, since he's associated with spamming and noob tactics, here's some reality to him.
1. Teleport seldom lands.
2. Ghost ball does zero damage where it lands or not.
3. Shadow dash/slide,knee are noobs main tools. User can either spam like a dickhead, or like I do, catch players on the offensive.
So if you're playing a "Noob," hopefully this will bring some understanding...
CYD
New member
My first thought...the difference between Spamming and Zoning...is the loser. If the loser has any skill, it was Zoning. Otherwise they are a scrub, and will call it spamming. I did not see "spamming" in the glossary.
To illustrate my point, if you aren't good enough to overcome a repeated barrage of projectiles from full screen, why would I change a working tactic? You let me get to full screen, and you aren't preventing me from continuing...The moment this "tactic" is overcome, I am sure you will find out who the scrub really is.
To illustrate my point, if you aren't good enough to overcome a repeated barrage of projectiles from full screen, why would I change a working tactic? You let me get to full screen, and you aren't preventing me from continuing...The moment this "tactic" is overcome, I am sure you will find out who the scrub really is.
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fredkrueg3r
New member
I both Agree and Disagree.
I disagree because "zoning" often is used with spamming and is often used for a very lame win, creating a boring fight between both players. For example i see people "zone" with noob, often backing off and throwing projectiles. Against a charcter like baraka its a totally lame win , even the best baraka users struggle to win against this. Because baraka's projectile is slower than noobs u constanty have to dash in and jump the projectiles. Often when you are close you have to jump a projectile and you then get uppercutted back to square one. I know this is more spamming than zoning but its spamming usuing zoning.
I also think its very lame to constantly back off, i understand zoning but to constantly back off and wait for your opponent to make a mistake is just awful. Backing off is cowardly and also creates a boring fight for both players. If you are any good you dont have to wait for your opponent to be open to attack, you should be aggresive and force your opponent to be open to attack. Backing off and waiting for your opponent to make a mistake isnt a good way to win, it often is a loosing strategy , but it ruins the fight, please just grow up you should know better than to do this. In addition, a player who down and blocks on the other end of the screen is often destoryed by moves such as scorpions fire, nightwolfs lightning and sheevas stomp, so this is just confirming my point that i dont like it as it ruins every1s fun, not that i cannont win againts these type of players.
Anyone who spams is terrible and unintelligent. It takes no skill to spam, any1 can do it. They play just for a lame win. It ruins the fun for both players, so why do it? It doesnt matter who wins at this point, its just the fact that the spammer has taken the time to ruin his own and his opponents fun. Lack of intelligence is the only conclusion.
I disagree because "zoning" often is used with spamming and is often used for a very lame win, creating a boring fight between both players. For example i see people "zone" with noob, often backing off and throwing projectiles. Against a charcter like baraka its a totally lame win , even the best baraka users struggle to win against this. Because baraka's projectile is slower than noobs u constanty have to dash in and jump the projectiles. Often when you are close you have to jump a projectile and you then get uppercutted back to square one. I know this is more spamming than zoning but its spamming usuing zoning.
I also think its very lame to constantly back off, i understand zoning but to constantly back off and wait for your opponent to make a mistake is just awful. Backing off is cowardly and also creates a boring fight for both players. If you are any good you dont have to wait for your opponent to be open to attack, you should be aggresive and force your opponent to be open to attack. Backing off and waiting for your opponent to make a mistake isnt a good way to win, it often is a loosing strategy , but it ruins the fight, please just grow up you should know better than to do this. In addition, a player who down and blocks on the other end of the screen is often destoryed by moves such as scorpions fire, nightwolfs lightning and sheevas stomp, so this is just confirming my point that i dont like it as it ruins every1s fun, not that i cannont win againts these type of players.
Anyone who spams is terrible and unintelligent. It takes no skill to spam, any1 can do it. They play just for a lame win. It ruins the fun for both players, so why do it? It doesnt matter who wins at this point, its just the fact that the spammer has taken the time to ruin his own and his opponents fun. Lack of intelligence is the only conclusion.
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^Hey, I remember playing you online 
Sorry, but I completely disagree.
No one said that YOU have to play on an aggressive offense the whole round. IMHO, the first paragraph has the "sore loser" mentality/plug put into it and that people have to play the way you want them too. Not saying you are one, but picking a character that has a poor chance against Noob to begin with is... dumb. Second, players skill matters more than anything.
Backing off is strategy and it's a good one; constantly switching between offensive and defensive. For an opponent who can't teleport, well, goodluck...
I even had some guy whining on the mic saying "come on! you only use 3 moves you f'ing spammer..." Newsflash! Noob only has 3 effective moves!!
Sorry, but I completely disagree.
No one said that YOU have to play on an aggressive offense the whole round. IMHO, the first paragraph has the "sore loser" mentality/plug put into it and that people have to play the way you want them too. Not saying you are one, but picking a character that has a poor chance against Noob to begin with is... dumb. Second, players skill matters more than anything.
Backing off is strategy and it's a good one; constantly switching between offensive and defensive. For an opponent who can't teleport, well, goodluck...
I even had some guy whining on the mic saying "come on! you only use 3 moves you f'ing spammer..." Newsflash! Noob only has 3 effective moves!!
DarkSpark
New member
Basically, what you've said through all of that is, you've played people who didn't get last week's memo. All of that is well and dandy, but you realize it only works against someone who has no clue what the hell they're doing, right? Good players can and will dashblock through all of that and manage to get in on you, and then what? The card house falls.
You said yourself that Noob's Shadow Tackle/Slide are his best tools, well then you might want to consider building with them instead of living by them. Just a suggestion.
Completely false statement, but you keep thinking that man, you just keep on thinking that.