Mortal Kombat 11 General Discussion Media Thread
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Misucra
Well-known member
Mary Sue, and low key pushing in Kung Jin's sexuality. Normally I don't care about those things. I wouldn't say shit if it was Mass Effect or similar game that plays around relationships, but once a fighting game about carnage starts getting all romantic and brings in all these representations... It start clicking wrong buttons for me.
[MENTION=28630]Rhizodus[/MENTION] No worries. I care about gay people as much as straight (as in I don't care at all. You guys do what you do if it makes you happy.). I simply don't like the forced politics in my fighting game story.
You and me, mate. This entire Family show shit, had NOTHING to do with MK world. Absolutely nothing. I would have been fine with just. She is Sonya's and Cage daughter. This is Jax daughter. The End. Now let's concentrate on what matters the mos.... aaand here we go. Did ya hear that Kenshi? She called me Johnny.
Cassie did ya hear that? She called me JOHNNY.
HEY EVERYBODY DID YAH HEAR THAT? SONYA CALLED ME JOHNNY!
Oh and my daughter beat Corrupted all powerful Shinnok, with no build up or anything. She just got this green aura and now she is Superman. Oh I am sorry! Didn't mean to impose the gender! She is a Superwoman! The Mary Sue!
To be fair. It wasn't much, but I could already start feeling some minor SJW influence there, so I am really hoping they gonna jump back to MK9 story mode format and we won't see this shit again.
Just for the record. Liu Kang and Kitana relationship wasn't as forced. To be honest most of the stuff, was hinted. But story didn't rotate around that.
Xenon
Well-known member
I didn't know that Kung Jin was gay until some SJW started yelling that someone at NRS confirmed that to be the case. It was so subtle that I doubt anyone had a problem with it. Who cares whom a video game character prefers to screw anyways?
The only SJW thing I can remember from the top of my head is when once again, someone at NRS said that women will be more "realistic". Yea bro, because Mortal Kombat is a realistic game, sexy women are unrealistic, and you totally didn't back pedal on concious design choices that were made all the way from MK1 and Tobias himself :lol:
Other than that there's not much SJW shit. NRS/WB would be very, very stupid to pull it off in today's environment. Just look at how badly Disney tanked with Soy Wars, or any SJW-focused media for that matter.
The only SJW thing I can remember from the top of my head is when once again, someone at NRS said that women will be more "realistic". Yea bro, because Mortal Kombat is a realistic game, sexy women are unrealistic, and you totally didn't back pedal on concious design choices that were made all the way from MK1 and Tobias himself :lol:
Other than that there's not much SJW shit. NRS/WB would be very, very stupid to pull it off in today's environment. Just look at how badly Disney tanked with Soy Wars, or any SJW-focused media for that matter.
Misucra
Well-known member
Yeah well here is the problem. It seems corporate guys are really stupid after all. I do some NASDAQ trading time from time and EA side of investors.... they live in some world that doesn't have any cables plugged into main computer called "Reality". Hey if we introduce this new payment system, our stocks will skyrocket and we will make money! 2 days later. WE ARE LOSING MONEY. But here is a new payment method. It will surely work.
Or Blizzard now going with Gay reveals. So I am not sure.
Yeah about those "realistic" women. MK9 females were anything but sexy. Shit my female colleague who is a nympho and digs girls, cringes while looking at those outfits. If they wanted something sexy, they went somewhere wrong. So instead of just toning it down a bit and keeping to actual MK style, they went full force to another side. And we got designs, that feel... pretty boring. Not all, but I would say majority of costumes feel off. Mileena especially.
Hell. Even look at Dead Or Alive. The fighting game built specifically on sexy theme. Now they go all censorship, because some feminist came running and screaming in US. And game is receiving negative backlash for that, even before it is released.
I don't even play DoA, but I can tell where the guys are coming from. Foundations, my man. The very Foundations. If you start changing that, then prepare for a crash. If DoA was built on that, then keep to the tradition. Same with MK. But we will see. I will laugh my ass off if they will dress females in thick layers of clothing, or even get close to giving burkas. It won't push me away from the game, but it will be fun to watch how death and carnage is fine, but showing skin is a Taboo.
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Misucra
Well-known member
I didn't say "forced", but I guess low key pushing does sound that way. But come on really? That's the excuse? They had tons of good material to use. Doesn't want to join Shaolin as he blames Raiden for his uncle's death. Doesn't want to join Shaolin as it got his uncle killed. Doesn't want to join as he doesn't have a precise goal in life, hasn't found his way. Or simply, judging by his character. Doesn't want to join, because he thinks he is too for them or something.
I am fine with him mentioning that somewhere else. His and Tanya interaction is actually funny. That actually made me say "Ouch." out loud.
But again my main point. "Give them an inch, and they will take a mile" Now it is just hints, but later on it can simply concentrating all around that.
Cause Cassie's team, was hormones raging all over the place.
Misucra
Well-known member
And the biggest problem, people keep missing the point. Do we have a problem with a female saving the world? Hell nah. I can count tons of female characters that looked badass doing that. In the past. But now it is like Xenon called... Soy Wars. You get this fem character that gets powers with no hardships and beats the big guy, cause she is a girl, while big bad is a guy.
Xenon
Well-known member
There was a good video on why big companies are bending over. You can look it up. Basically it's because of Metacritic and Bonuses. There was an example where a big AAA studio set a target to the developers, that the game needs to score above 85 or else no bonus. Most of the critics are corrupt and are pushing their political agendas as actual review points. Long story short, the game scored an 84, and nobody got their bonus.
As for sexiness, to each his own. There are plenty of women who find MK9 sexy, just look at all the cosplayers. Hell even Boon got a lump when there was this hot MK9 Mileena talking to him (I don't remember about what :lol
. I also find it sexier than the disaster that was MKX. Probably because I've been screwing girls that are making even MK9 levels of sexy seem like nothing! MK9 primary costumes were also much closer to the original source material than MKX. So if anything, it was more Mortal Kombat than the last installment.I don't care much about this anyways. It's not like they're going to do a 180 and put back the sex appeal back. They tried it in Injustice 2, and it got censored. So yes, the artists have no say in it, even if they want to.
I don't care about Dead or Alive, it's not my type of game. And wasn't it banned because of SJWs anyways? :lol:
Yellow Ledbetter
Active member
I agree with BBBLP.
I mean, they are trying to give depth to the character, to start exploring more than "the realms are in danger!!!". MKX was all about personal business, family and also relationships. Cassie with her mom, Johnny and Sonya, Raiden and Kung Lao/Liu Kang, Takeda and Kenshi, Hanzo and his family (and even Sub-Zero), even Mileena with Shao Kahn.
So when it came to Kung Jin, I see otherwise: I think NRS took the nice way of addressing a character's sexuality without turning this into a major point. Where else we see about it? I think an intro or two, at the least with Tanya there is one, but that's it.
Also, I don't see any SJW BS (more to Rhizodus now) on the team. Sonya had always been the blondie girl power, Johnny the white rich, Jax the black man, Kenshi/Liu Kang/Kung Lao/Sub-Zero/Scorpion etc. the asian dudes...I think it would be kinda strange if they made a new generation of fighters and they were ALL white and blond regarding the diversity MK always had.
And tbh I never thought this was shoved down. It's like the world, people are there and different, and when they indeed touched something like sexuality (I mean homossexuality, because MK has addressed sexuality a loooooong time), they did in a clever and very subtle way. When I saw that cutscene I didn't even catch the meaning at first.
I mean, they are trying to give depth to the character, to start exploring more than "the realms are in danger!!!". MKX was all about personal business, family and also relationships. Cassie with her mom, Johnny and Sonya, Raiden and Kung Lao/Liu Kang, Takeda and Kenshi, Hanzo and his family (and even Sub-Zero), even Mileena with Shao Kahn.
So when it came to Kung Jin, I see otherwise: I think NRS took the nice way of addressing a character's sexuality without turning this into a major point. Where else we see about it? I think an intro or two, at the least with Tanya there is one, but that's it.
Also, I don't see any SJW BS (more to Rhizodus now) on the team. Sonya had always been the blondie girl power, Johnny the white rich, Jax the black man, Kenshi/Liu Kang/Kung Lao/Sub-Zero/Scorpion etc. the asian dudes...I think it would be kinda strange if they made a new generation of fighters and they were ALL white and blond regarding the diversity MK always had.
And tbh I never thought this was shoved down. It's like the world, people are there and different, and when they indeed touched something like sexuality (I mean homossexuality, because MK has addressed sexuality a loooooong time), they did in a clever and very subtle way. When I saw that cutscene I didn't even catch the meaning at first.
Eng_86
Member
To be fair the outfits for all the female fighters in MK9 (default and alternates) were way over the top. Don’t get me wrong seeing a women’s cleavage while wearing a mini skirt, tight sexy dress, or in low-rise shorts in nice and all. But not to the extent of something that should be reserved for a porn flick.
The outfits in MKX for the female fighters were a complete 180. Hardly any skin was shown unless you chose Kitana’s and Mileena’s MK2 outfit.
The default outfits for Harely Quinn, Super Girl and Wonder Women in Injustice 2 were pathetic. Only Harely Quinn showed some extra skin. Traditional Super Girl, Wonder Women, and Harley Quinn outfits had them either wearing a proper mini-skirt with knee high boots and not a full out rubber/leather pants or rubber suit.
The outfits in MKX for the female fighters were a complete 180. Hardly any skin was shown unless you chose Kitana’s and Mileena’s MK2 outfit.
The default outfits for Harely Quinn, Super Girl and Wonder Women in Injustice 2 were pathetic. Only Harely Quinn showed some extra skin. Traditional Super Girl, Wonder Women, and Harley Quinn outfits had them either wearing a proper mini-skirt with knee high boots and not a full out rubber/leather pants or rubber suit.
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Xenon
Well-known member
But that's exactly what we had, starting from MK3 and ending with Deception/Armageddon. The female ninjas were wearing a lingerie with their tits out. Even in MK2 we still had plenty of side boob and ass action. MK1/MK3 Sonya looked like a gym thot. So no, it wasn't over the top. It was actually paying homage to the source material. Mortal Kombat is known for having a pair and pushing the envelope. Now they basically got castrated and I don't blame them. It's just the way the industry is.
Commander
Well-known member
Yes, that was the reason.
Jin felt that a religious group of people (the Shaolin), wouldn't accept him for who he was.
I agree with [MENTION=4889]BBBLP[/MENTION] in that I don't think it was really forced / pushed.
Also, the whole "Raiden is to blame" trope was already being used and over-done by Liu Kang and Kung Lao in MKX (IMO), both of whom with were acting like a bunch of stupid hot-heads in MK9 and got themselves killed (Kung for being a show-off and Liu for disobeying Raiden), but in MKX they decided to blame Raiden.
Austin Chaos
New member
Race, gender and sexuality have never mattered to me, especially in games, even in the slightest. Jacqui should be black, she's Jax's daughter. Jin's sexuality is basically a non entity in the game...not only was it not a central point, it wasn't even a side point. In was inferred, at best (at least initially). The problem with Cassie had nothing to do at all with race or gender. It would have been just a stupid for a new character that was a male saurian to just come in and beat corrupted Shinnok out of nowhere. The build up was poor writing and development, which again, has nothing to do with the gender. They never made it about "oh look, girl beats guy", it was "Oh look, new character beats established character because inherited powers". That trope could have been lumped on anyone, and would have been just as bad.
I don't think we have anything to worry about on a social justice front, I think the thing we should be most concerned about is sloppy, shallow writing.
I don't think we have anything to worry about on a social justice front, I think the thing we should be most concerned about is sloppy, shallow writing.
Misucra
Well-known member
Well I did my thesis about MK9 outfits before and I don't wanna repeat 5 pages worth of text again, so to keep it short.
My biggest issue was. High Heels, make up and faces. Mileena actually was the only one that made sense. She is supposed to be this succubus like fighter, who sells her body as her face is... eeer. Well... let's just say. Not for sale.
I seriously hate high heels in fighting games.
To be honest if they brought Sonya's MK9 outfit, but changed the pants and shoes to her Covert Ops variation version, kept MK9 top and gave her... hmmm Injustice 2 Super Girl level of face. She would be perfect.
[MENTION=9871]Xenon[/MENTION] Well... Injustice 2 is DC property so no wonder about that one.
As for metacritic. I didn't know that. Damn this sucks. Creativity ruined, just for some stupid number.
My biggest issue was. High Heels, make up and faces. Mileena actually was the only one that made sense. She is supposed to be this succubus like fighter, who sells her body as her face is... eeer. Well... let's just say. Not for sale.
I seriously hate high heels in fighting games.
To be honest if they brought Sonya's MK9 outfit, but changed the pants and shoes to her Covert Ops variation version, kept MK9 top and gave her... hmmm Injustice 2 Super Girl level of face. She would be perfect.
[MENTION=9871]Xenon[/MENTION] Well... Injustice 2 is DC property so no wonder about that one.
As for metacritic. I didn't know that. Damn this sucks. Creativity ruined, just for some stupid number.
FrancisManancis
Member
Yellow Ledbetter
Active member
I think MK9 designs were very bad. I have no attraction on seeing video game characters dressed like strippers tbh.
But it's not a thing of sexual appeal. Sonya had that vest with her breasts out. Kitana and Mileena's clothes were absolutely off IMO.
It's a fight to the death, not a stripper club. They do have to wear some armor, not high heels.
MKX IMO was on point tho. Cassie had a body suit, I think that's sexy (not that I care in the game, but as this is the matter) for example. But Sonya's default was bad, Jacqui could be better, Mileena was nice, Kitana should have been revenant (and Empress could be almost all covered BUT bewbs were there, and it was absolutely fine and logic), D'vorah, well, D'vorah right lol.
I don't really care if the outfit is "sexy". My point is: the same way I disliked Sonya dressed in a very conservative outfit (she's a military and all, but as the default it could be better), and I do see sexyness in outfits like Cassie, I also dislike MK9 style.
MKX had some well designed outfits. I think Mileena was the best default, Empress Kitana was dope, Boot camp nice, and all of Sonya's alts were good IMO. Also, if the "tournament" versions of Sonya and Kitana were like that in MK9, I think it would be a better common point.
Xenon
Well-known member
Who cares about high heels or make up...Nothing about Mortal Kombat is realistic. If that would be the case women wouldn't even participate, as men would simply destroy them.
Besides Jackie fought some chicks in high heels before :lol:
Besides Jackie fought some chicks in high heels before :lol:
Eng_86
Member
The #Metoo movement most likely played a part in that.
Misucra
Well-known member
i skipped word "too good for them or something". His reasoning was self pity. Oh and yes Shaolin Monks giving two shits about that. Buddhism is a strong element in there, and contrary to what Hollywood shows, actual Buddhism doesn't give two shits what way you swing. If he was trying to join Christian or Islam based temple, then sure. But Shaolin Monks? Who actually celebrate life and all its Miracles? Yeah sure. I should add "misrepresentation" then as well.
Also. Wait... why do people keep bringing that stuff up? I thought it was clear as a day that they don't mean what they say. Jax was talking shit at Sonya and beating the living shit out of her... why? She didn't kill him. Or cause his death. She literally saved him multiple times. They are hostile, because they are revenants. That's the only reason why Kitana, Kung Lao, or any of the revenants blame Raiden. They are slaves to Quan Chi. Of course they gonna shit on Raiden and everyone who is not part of Quan Chi's army. Well maybe exceot Liu Kang, but again he died as he let his emotions take over him and he wasnt thinking straight after Kitana died. Not to mention, hearing Raiden talk about siding with Quan Chi, while he is looking over his dead friends who literally just died fighting against Quan Chi made him snap. Can't really blame the guy. He lost everything. Shaolin burned down, His best friend dead, his love interest died in his arms, his dead friends lying around him and the man/God he greatly respects and considers as a teacher is telling him to work with the guy who was responsible for entire invasion.
So he does have some reason to hate Raiden, but everyone else? Just cruel Quan Chi's mind games. He usses their friends as slaves and turns them against their former allies, while at the same time Revenants blame their former friends, trying to break them, bring out their guilt. Like how Revenant Jax was effective with Sonya. She was his superior and he died in a line of duty, and she blames herself as his superior, so Revenenat Jax just needed to press the right buttons.
[MENTION=30027]Austin Chaos[/MENTION]
Yeah , but here is the tiny problem. Aside females, no males have this trope in current movies.
I don't know if you know One Punch Man, but it is literally about the guy, who can kill all monsters with one punch. He is the fastest, strongest guy around. Nobody can beat him. He makes Superman look like nothing. It is a receipt for a boring show right? WRONG.
It is one of the most amusing shows, because they managed to make his greatest strength into his greatest nemesis and weakness.
As for race. I personally don't care what race the char is. While I am not a fan, of someone changing the original skin color of a character for a movie, I tend to be open minded about that. Like Domino in DeadPool 2. Lots of people cried about her not having white skin, but I found her pretty interesting in the movie.
I think [MENTION=28630]Rhizodus[/MENTION] point was, that the interactions of the team was by the book Hollywood garbage. If they were actually interesting and didn't spend time flirting with each other or having family issues they would have been more intresting.
You can give depth to characters in many different ways. I didn't need a family drama for me to start liking Sub Zero. Or to know what way he swings. We already have romance based movies and games. I would rather clench my teet and get MK9 outfit all over again, then see a game that I use to escape all the romance, turn into another romantic sitcom, where i have to watch teenagers or adults flirt with each other and notify the world, that their partner called by their first name.