Let's discuss possible SubZero storylines

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BBBLP says that Kid NOVA is a tool with a lame gimmick.
But that has nothing to do with Sub-Zero, does it
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Subz 711 said:
No canonically Raiden and or Fujin make the most sense. Up until a few weeks ago everyone thought Shinnok would be the big bad. Raiden and Fujin are both gods who should be able to stand toe to toe with ya know? A fallen god. Yet, somehow you found it good to have Shujinko do that. Hmm...
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Yet Liu Kang was the one who defeated Shinnok in the original timeline? It is well known that gods don't interfere unless things go really bad as evidenced time and time again in the old timeline. Raiden could have defeated Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, Shinnok etc in the old timeline by himself and called it a day. Hmmm.....looks like someone doesn't really pay attention to the lore. Plus even then, Raiden himself was unable to even hurt Onaga, Shujinko went on to destroy him.......that should clearly show you who is stronger even if they are gods.


Subz 711 said:
I clearly did respond. I said it's a sub-plot. His story does not have to tie in with the main arc to have relevance. At one point or another he's affected Scorpion, Noob, Smoke, Cyrax, Sektor, Kenshi, Hotaru, and Frost. It was stated in MK9 he was one of Raiden's most trusted warriors. Also, Sonya even seems to have a good friendship with him because in DA it is stated she visited the lin kuei temple to talk with Sub-Zero. In this time it's revealed she does not like nor trust Frost. She turns out to be right.

Anyway, point is just because he didn't help.bring down Onaga or the DA does not mean he isn't interesting. Half of his shit is waaay more interesting than some of the subplots in th Mk universe. Just because you think he has to be in the main plot to be interesting or relevant doesn't mean he's not.
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No you did not. Rather than repeating yourself, try and respond to specific queries I had put out, I'll re-post it again. Kuai Liang was nothing more than a namesake leader basically, almost all the forces of light had a connection to the main plot in their story arc and actually contributed, except him until armageddon happened. This series is about MK as a whole and not only Sub-Zero, running story arcs completely isolated from the main arc would fall flat. He may be interesting and what not, but his relevance taking the MK story in the original timeline is evidently nothing as he did nothing.

Flying Jinko said:
What you fail to realise/ignore is that for the subplots to have relevance, it should be atleast indirectly related to the main plot or else it will fall flat like it did with Kuai Liang. Sonya's OIA was set up to help protect earthrealm, and there was a lot of story revolving around with a couple of characters and had relevance in the main story and thus I feel was a worthwhile addition since it was connected to the main plot. What did Sub-Zero do in his capacity as grandmaster of the Lin Kuei to protect earthrealm? Even if you wish to isolate his story arc from the main plot, what did he really do than discover his ancestry? He was nothing more than a namesake leader basically, atleast that's how NRS made him. To sum up his story, he went on a tour to outworld, losing his apprentice on the way and later found a wounded Kenshi, nursed him back to health and returned home while MKDA and MKD happened. Story writing at its poorest.
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Was Shujinko the one who killed Onaga? I thought it was Scorpion. Isn't that why they brought back his clan in Armageddon?
 
Though Scorpion was the real champion of the elder gods, it was Shujinko who defeated Onaga. From what I remember after losing to Shujinko towards the end if the konquest mode, he went looking for both Shujinko and Onaga but it wasn't said if he actually fought them again. Canonically Shujinko defeated Onaga and Nightwolf trapped his soul in the Netherealm. Also elder gods said they would resurrect the Shirai Ryu, in return for Scorpion being their champion alone. Perhaps defeating Onaga wasn't a requirement. Perhaps since Scorpion wasn't the one who actually defeated Onaga and to somehow keep the end of the bargain they resurrected them as undead.
 
Flying Jinko said:
Yet Liu Kang was the one who defeated Shinnok in the original timeline? It is well known that gods don't interfere unless things go really bad as evidenced time and time again in the old timeline. Raiden could have defeated Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, Shinnok etc in the old timeline by himself and called it a day. Hmmm.....looks like someone doesn't really pay attention to the lore. Plus even then, Raiden himself was unable to even hurt Onaga, Shujinko went on to destroy him.......that should clearly show you who is stronger even if they are gods..
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No, I knew Kang did. I knew this because Kang was the champion of Mortal Kombat. His ass is about as strong as it gets for a mortal. My thing with Shujinko though is I was going to read your story and try and take it seriously. So, I told myself "self, take this story seriously if he doesn't have Shujinko hold his own with the main boss of he next game". What did I find though? You did the exact shit I knew you would and had him fight Shinnok. In any scenario I've ever had for Kuai, not once would I make it like he should beat the big bad. I knew you were going to do that though before I even read it, and you didn't fail to deliver. Call me a fanboy, but what are you?

Also, you should know the reason Raiden didn't just interfere in MK1-3 is because it was against the rules to do so. If it wasn't I'm sure he would have just jumped his ass in there and done so. Somebody doesn't know the lore, and that person is you.

Flying Jinko said:
No you did not. Rather than repeating yourself, try and respond to specific queries I had put out, I'll re-post it again. Kuai Liang was nothing more than a namesake leader basically, almost all the forces of light had a connection to the main plot in their story arc and actually contributed, except him until armageddon happened. This series is about MK as a whole and not only Sub-Zero, running story arcs completely isolated from the main arc would fall flat. He may be interesting and what not, but his relevance taking the MK story in the original timeline is evidently nothing as he did nothing.
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His story didn't fall flat though. I have seen people who AREN'T fans of his in this thread who admit he's one of the best developed in the whole damn series. Just because you think it falls flat doesn't mean it does. Also, that is exactly what you are saying. You are saying he has to have main plot relevance to be relevant, but that's not so. Scorpion and Sub-Zero have become their own entities entirely in the MK universe. Their stories don't have to and never really have intertwined with the main plot besides in MK4. I loved Kuai's development, and so do a lot of people. Just because he's not relevant to you does not mean he's not relevant to other people. His story didn't fall flat here. Your argument does though.
 
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Flying Jinko said:
Though Scorpion was the real champion of the elder gods, it was Shujinko who defeated Onaga. From what I remember after losing to Shujinko towards the end if the konquest mode, he went looking for both Shujinko and Onaga but it wasn't said if he actually fought them again. Canonically Shujinko defeated Onaga and Nightwolf trapped his soul in the Netherealm. Also elder gods said they would resurrect the Shirai Ryu, in return for Scorpion being their champion alone. Perhaps defeating Onaga wasn't a requirement. Perhaps since Scorpion wasn't the one who actually defeated Onaga and to somehow keep the end of the bargain they resurrected them as undead.
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Shujinko wasn't imprisoned by Hotaru at the time of MK4 ?
 
Kuai Liang was never a main protagonist though, Shujinko was. It makes sense that he would defeat the main baddie
 
BBBLP said:
Kuai Liang was never a main protagonist though, Shujinko was. It makes sense that he would defeat the main baddie
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He's not going to be again though, and most recognize this. Taven took his spot in Armageddon and sucked up the place as well. Shujinko also has no past with Shinnok like Raiden does. The reason Raiden should be the one fighting Shinnok is because Raiden has history with him.Also to clarify I don't hate Shujinko, but if he wasn't ever brought back I wouldn't notice.

Once I was done with Konquest it felt weird even having him on the roster then. He was forgettable tenfold once Armageddon rolled around.
 
Subz 711 said:
No, I knew Kang did. I knew this because Kang was the champion of Mortal Kombat. His ass is about as strong as it gets for a mortal. My thing with Shujinko though is I was going to read your story and try and take it seriously. So, I told myself "self, take this story seriously if he doesn't have Shujinko hold his own with the main boss of he next game". What did I find though? You did the exact shit I knew you would and had him fight Shinnok. In any scenario I've ever had for Kuai, not once would I make it like he should beat the big bad. I knew you were going to do that though before I even read it, and you didn't fail to deliver. Call me a fanboy, but what are you?
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Liu Kang wasn't strong because he was the mortal kombat champion, he was strong because he trained hard and had the enthusiasm and talent required. It is pretty much the same with Shujinko, just that he was able to do it for longer and faster. As for my story I did what is natural and logical for Shujinko. He was the main hero of MKD and he was also said to be the next generation Liu Kang by Ed Boon himself. Being the one that opposes Shinnok is not really out of character for him, but for someone like Kuai, it is. If you actually read the story as you claim to say you would know that Shujinko wasn't the one who defeated Shinnok. If I wanted to go all fanboy mode I could just have Shujinko do it and be done with it. I've received more than 300 reviews/comments regarding my story and so far you are the only one who had this issue with Shujinko. That is 1 in 300. It is clear you are biased as usual. I doubt you care about anything in the MKverse other than Kuai Liang.

Subz 711 said:
Also, you should know the reason Raiden didn't just interfere in MK1-3 is because it was against the rules to do so. If it wasn't I'm sure he would have just jumped his ass in there and done so. Somebody doesn't know the lore, and that person is you.
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Then why didn't he challenge and defeat Shinnok in MK4 and be done with it? You can't cherry pick events of the old timeline just to suit your arguments and you are again steering away from the point of discussion, that is Shujinko being capable of going toe to toe with Shinnok.

Subz 711 said:
His story didn't fall flat though. I have seen people who AREN'T fans of his in this thread who admit he's one of the best developed in the whole damn series. Just because you think it falls flat doesn't mean it does. Also, that is exactly what you are saying. You are saying he has to have main plot relevance to be relevant, but that's not so. Scorpion and Sub-Zero have become their own entities entirely in the MK universe. Their stories don't have to and never really have intertwined with the main plot besides in MK4. I loved Kuai's development, and so do a lot of people. Just because he's not relevant to you does not mean he's not relevant to other people. His story didn't fall flat here. Your argument does though.
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Again you are just repeating yourself, it really doesn't help drive home a point, if at all you are making any. I don't think you even know what you are arguing against, really. Using your own argument against you, for every person who likes Sub-Zero's story arc there will be one who doesn't and agrees that it was pointless and boring. What was the point of giving him a good backstory when he isn't going to use it to do anything relevant? Also you are implying he is relevant and 'one of the most developed characters in MK' based on his involvement with certain characters. Going by that logic Shujinko should be the most developed MK character for you since he has had interactions and relationships with almost the entire cast and yet you don't want to acknowledge that. Your bias is coming into play again. Unless you can debate without being biased I see no point in you trying to argue.

Katalina Caine said:
Shujinko wasn't imprisoned by Hotaru at the time of MK4?
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No, he was travelling from earthrealm to netherealm during MK4, to regain back the evil taint he had lost, to continue on with his quest.

Subz 711 said:
He's not going to be again though
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How do you know? do you work at NRS? As of this point of time, it is still unsure, though unlikely, Im hoping for a surprise. Eitherways, no one was saying he would be surely included anyways, I just gave you good reasons why he could make it in and why it would even make sense, so far you have not been able to refute any of it.

Subz 711 said:
He was forgetable tenfold when armageddon rolled around
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Everyone besides Taven, Daegon and Blaze stopped being revelant during armageddon, don't see why you only love to single him out for it.
 
Maybe at some point in the story, Scorpion finds out that Quan Chi was the reason for the death of his family and clan. After watching Scorpion lose to Kuai Liang in the 2nd tournament. Quan Chi thinks that Kuai Liang will most likely defeat Scorpion again, so he resurrects and brain washes him back to human form like he did to Sindel.

Sorry if none of that makes any sense.
 
[MENTION=989]Jinko[/MENTION]

I could argue with you for pages about this, but I'm not going to. Mostly because I don't care about Shujinko.

Liu Kang defeated Shinnok, but Raiden banished him back to the netherealm. Raiden also defeated Shinnok in the past. The most logical choice to fight Shinnok with Kang dead should have been Raiden. Especially since they have a past with each other. You chose Shujinko to fight him though. Yes, I know you didn't have Jinko defeat him, but still. It shows where your head was with Shujinko.

Also, LOL at for every person that likes Kuai's story another doesn't. That's funny, because for every person that likes Shujinko there's five that don't.lol. That's why I say he's not going to be the main protagonist again. Hell, even Kang was the main protagonist in MK9. Raiden took that spot.

Oh and also if I'm 1 in 300 who doesn't like your story that automatically makes it good? Hitler had lots of followers too, and we know how awful he was.

Let's be done with this argument. I'm not a fan of yours, and you aren't a fan of mine. Let's agree to disagree and stop derailing this thread.
 
Subz 711 said:
Oh and also if I'm 1 in 300 who doesn't like your story that automatically makes it good? Hitler had lots of followers too, and we know how awful he was.
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It's fine to disagree, but comparing someone to Hitler because you don't agree with them = fail.
 
[MENTION=4770]Subz 711[/MENTION] It's funny how always each of your arguments always can be used against you, throughout this thread and others you have never failed to demonstrate how biased you are. Opinions of a biased person aren't really opinions at all. Plus it wasn't me who derailed the thread, you bought Shujinko into the discussion (for who knows why) and you even continued after I indicated that this isn't the thread for it. But yes, since debating stresses you out enough to compare me to Hitler, it's time to stop.
 
Araknyd_Commander said:
It's fine to disagree, but comparing someone to Hitler because you don't agree with them = fail.
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Yeah admittedly that was really mean. I do apologize for that @Flying_Jinko. That was a bad analogy to use.

Maybe like just because nickelback has fans doesn't mean their music is good. Yeah there we go. That's better.

Also, the reason I brought Jinko and your story into this is you keep saying I have a bias. Bringing up your Shujinko theory and your story shows you would clearly have a bias for your favorite character as well.Clearly there are others who have a bias to Bi-Han, and that's fine if they can make a good reason for him to come back as Sub-Zero and have it make sense. This thread basically turned into a Kuai vs Bi-Han thread. I was making my argument to why the soulnado theory is bad. Someone's argument was basically "So what? They can retcon it so that Noob wasn't made from Bi-Han's evil". Well, if they're just going to retcon shit then retcon cyber Subz all together. His fans were few and far between. Problem solved right there.

Anyway, it shouldn't have escalated to this, but you were the one who made it personal first. I sat there and said let's not argue because we clearly disagree on a lot of things. You even took a message in which I was joking and were trying to use it against me. Then you said my arguments could not be taken seriously, and you accused me of not knowing the lore. You started making personal comments, and that's why I got personal back. Hopefully next time we can avoid this.
 
[MENTION=4770]Subz 711[/MENTION] Its only Bi-Han vs. Kuai Liang because you're insanely biased in favor of Kuai Liang to the point of ignoring or finding bullshit reasons to ignore anything anyone says about him being Bi-Han.

Again, i dont think you understand that it doesnt matter if you dont like the soulnado theory, its more about whats probable and likely. Present a good Kuai Liang theory and we can actually discuss this in a sensible fashion.
 
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