Lack of.....

Well you can alot more cool designs with males than females. Females almost always have the same design. And male characters seem more cool in a fighting game
 
Lord Greyjoy said:
I'm not opposed, but I don't support it either. I don't care either way. I'm fine with NRS making the game the way they want to make it.
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This. Exactly this right here is my problem with this sort of complaining. Shoe-horning in females for the sake of people complaining sacrifices artistic integrity. This is the game they want to make. I'd rather have good characters than half-assed ones for the sake of appeasing people who complained. Sorry if they don't have enough females to meet your standards, if it is truly upsetting seek out a different fighting game. I think MK's female:male ratio is pretty good.
 
Lord Greyjoy said:
I'm not opposed, but I don't support it either. I don't care either way. I'm fine with NRS making the game the way they want to make it.
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Viking_Poodle said:
This. Exactly this right here is my problem with this sort of complaining. Shoe-horning in females for the sake of people complaining sacrifices artistic integrity. This is the game they want to make. I'd rather have good characters than half-assed ones for the sake of appeasing people who complained. Sorry if they don't have enough females to meet your standards, if it is truly upsetting seek out a different fighting game. I think MK's female:male ratio is pretty good.
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I see what you were getting at re: the Overwatch situation, Mr. Poodle. :/ I'm with you guys for sure.

Like [MENTION=18014]theincubuslord[/MENTION] said I wouldn't mind several more females, but we're in the right ballpark so I don't care.
 
p.W said:
I see what you were getting at re: the Overwatch situation, Mr. Poodle. :/ I'm with you guys for sure.

Like [MENTION=18014]theincubuslord[/MENTION] said I wouldn't mind several more females, but we're in the right ballpark so I don't care.
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Yup yup. I wouldn't mind having more females than males if that was truly their vision. But why force it and mess up what could be a great roster? I just want developers to feel free to do what they really wanna do. That's really it.
 
Another reason why only putting out 4 dlc kharacters is a huge mistake,especially when 2 r guest. Alot of good kharacters r missing the cut n they would all sell very well. Based on what we've seen so far,i dont think these will be playable

Cyrax
Sektor
Baraka
Noob Saibot
Nightwolf
Smoke
Tanya
Reiko
Havik
Bo Rai Cho
Jade cuz shes dead
Frost
kabal
Li mei
Rain
Shang tsung
Sindel
Stryker
Skarlet
And possibly Fujin

Now that we have factions, they should release at least 2 kombat packs to balance them out more n as great as this game looks,u can guarantee it will sell extremely well
 
I'm starting to get the impression that say... an artistic team decides to add people in as a response from fans is somehow a betrayal of the creative process. And what seems to be most troubling about this is that when developers mention something in regards to female characters, their decisions are met with extreme suspicion as if something like "more realistic proportions" was due to listening to fans instead of doing what they want. How do you all know, especially when it comes to female characters, that the devs are doing what they want?

It can be appreciated that people want to honor the artistic choices of developers for anything and they tend to take a neutral stance. But it's really telling that the attitude that comes with the neutrality tends to favor the old way of doing things.

So let's say when MK11 comes out, NRS decided to make more than a third of the roster women. Hypothetically. How many of you are going to respect NRS's decision to do that and how many of you are going to be suspicious and blame some fans for that artistic direction? I'm picking up a lot of dog whistle language in this thread.
 
[MENTION=17841]GloriousDK[/MENTION] I don't think anyone is gonna care unless a whole media circus erupts with false accusations, a la Assassin's Creed.
 
GloriousDK said:
What happened with Assassin's Creed?
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Long story short, Developer said they were gonna implement a female assassin as DLC. Actually it might not have been DLC. Regardless its irrelevant. Anyway, they scrapped those plans, people went ape shit on them accusing them of sexism when really it was because it was too expensive to model a female character, do new voice lines, cut scenes, motion capture etc from a female perspective. Alternatively a female skin would've been weird because the lines and stuff would be from a male point of view.

I couldn't care less what NRS decides to do with the roster, as long as it's their own choice. If they genuinely feel that more females, blacks, Asians, Trans, gay, lesbian, etc. should be in the game and it's their choice, then all the power to them. However if it's them caving to fan pressure, that's where the line is drawn. Of course you wouldn't be able to tell exactly because it's not like NRS would come out and say "oh we only put in this gay character in because we didn't wanna piss off some fans". But I think we would have a general idea what would look like a forced inclusion, for example, if said character is portrayed in a stereotypical fashion.
 
They are already influenced by fan pressure though. ACTUALLY, their choices are influenced by a lot of different pressures. From fans, especially since their fans are becoming more diverse and vocal, and from investors and publishers. Let's not assume at all that they're entirely free to make whatever they want. I think they're lucky that for now, it seems like the majority of the fans, the developer, and the investors seem to be roughly on the same page.

I kinda remember that whole Assassin's Creed thing. But... didn't they make Assassin's Creed: Liberation? I thought the hero of that game was a black woman.
 
GloriousDK said:
They are already influenced by fan pressure though. ACTUALLY, their choices are influenced by a lot of different pressures. From fans, especially since their fans are becoming more diverse and vocal, and from investors and publishers. Let's not assume at all that they're entirely free to make whatever they want. I think they're lucky that for now, it seems like the majority of the fans, the developer, and the investors seem to be roughly on the same page.

I kinda remember that whole Assassin's Creed thing. But... didn't they make Assassin's Creed: Liberation? I thought the hero of that game was a black woman.
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That's fine, like I said if they choose to do it because they agree with said fans then all the power to them. I think to me the problem has to do with stereotypes. Let's just say that NRS decides to throw a gay character in MK. However they make the character so overly flamboyant, delicate and whatever other stereotypes that are associated with gay men in today's world. I think that would be completely wrong and offensive for NRS to do, considering there are a lot of gay men out there that could beat the snot out of, and behave more "manly" than the average straight dude.

That's just an extreme example of what I'm talking about.
 
I agree, Taj. Controlling Images (an alternative explanation of stereotypes) are incredibly problematic. And to fix those things usually treads the murky waters of accurate representation and tokenism due to the fact that in the case of your example, there still are many flamboyant homosexual men and yet then we have to ask if we're doing a service by normalizing those particular men by using their image to control the opinions of others as "This isn't just an image of a very flamboyant gay man, but this IS what gay men are." That's certainly something that's hard to avoid I think, so I can understand why certain artists would opt to just not approach the issue at all because for various reasons, their own limitations might create a damning problem for them and send a wrong message anyway. So I agree with you on some of those points. Sometimes, it's just not worth doing at all because it probably wont be done right.
 
MK hasn't really dabbled in relationships too much outside of this game, so unless they start stating sexual orientation in bios, or making relationships more prominent in the story (no need) there isn't a way for them to make it clear the sexual orientation of its roster. For all we know, Smoke/Sub-Zero could've had a thing *shrugs*
 
I could see how you might draw that conclusion for Smoke and Sub Zero. They were very close. But then so was Liu Kang and Kung Lao.
 
GloriousDK said:
I agree, Taj. Controlling Images (an alternative explanation of stereotypes) are incredibly problematic. And to fix those things usually treads the murky waters of accurate representation and tokenism due to the fact that in the case of your example, there still are many flamboyant homosexual men and yet then we have to ask if we're doing a service by normalizing those particular men by using their image to control the opinions of others as "This isn't just an image of a very flamboyant gay man, but this IS what gay men are." That's certainly something that's hard to avoid I think, so I can understand why certain artists would opt to just not approach the issue at all because for various reasons, their own limitations might create a damning problem for them and send a wrong message anyway. So I agree with you on some of those points. Sometimes, it's just not worth doing at all because it probably wont be done right.
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RaiNaz said:
MK hasn't really dabbled in relationships too much outside of this game, so unless they start stating sexual orientation in bios, or making relationships more prominent in the story (no need) there isn't a way for them to make it clear the sexual orientation of its roster. For all we know, Smoke/Sub-Zero could've had a thing *shrugs*
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I agree with both of you. Which is why I question people when they ask for things such as a Gay character in MKX. I get you want your community to be represented, but in a game where sexuality and relationships are completely irrelevant, what's the point of wanting a gay character in the game? This would lead to such a stereotypical character like I said earlier, and as you elaborated further [MENTION=17841]GloriousDK[/MENTION], as a way to differentiate the character from the rest of the roster, just to show "how gay he is".
 
If they want to introduce/reveal a homosexual character in the roster, do so in the story mode/ending. Bigots aside, most will not object to the idea.

Personally, I feel like Havik is bisexual. That, IMO, should be revealed in the comic, as should his relationship with Reiko. :P
 
RaiNaz said:
If they want to introduce/reveal a homosexual character in the roster, do so in the story mode/ending. Bigots aside, most will not object to the idea.

Personally, I feel like Havik is bisexual. That, IMO, should be revealed in the comic, as should his relationship with Reiko. :P
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Even so, say if it's in Story Mode or an Ending, what are you really gonna do to relevantly show he or she is homosexual? It's impossible unless you show a random, blatant, out of nowhere reference such as "as X character returns to his husband, presenting to him the head of Liu Kang, yada yada, blah blah"
 
Taj Gill said:
Even so, say if it's in Story Mode or an Ending, what are you really gonna do to relevantly show he or she is homosexual? It's impossible unless you show a random, blatant, out of nowhere reference such as "as X character returns to his husband, presenting to him the head of Liu Kang, yada yada, blah blah"
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For the story mode, it can be something as minor as flirting/wink (as seen with Sonya/Johnny) or someone as ruler with a same-sex partner/sex partners (or make them similar to Red Viper from Game of Thrones). As for endings, I agree with you, it would be awkward doing that for any orientation.
 
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