Let's discuss possible SubZero storylines

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Sn202 said:
[MENTION=4770]Subz 711[/MENTION] Its only Bi-Han vs. Kuai Liang because you're insanely biased in favor of Kuai Liang to the point of ignoring or finding bullshit reasons to ignore anything anyone says about him being Bi-Han.

Again, i dont think you understand that it doesnt matter if you dont like the soulnado theory, its more about whats probable and likely. Present a good Kuai Liang theory and we can actually discuss this in a sensible fashion.
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Nah, not really. I've acknowledged on several occasions that the intro "Shirai Ryu Dog" favors him. I really don't see what else does though.

Forget about Kuai Liang all together for a minute. I'm not even necessarily arguing for him as I've said that a new Sub-Zero is fine. Completely fine with that. How many times do I need to say it?

Now, what I need you to do is tell me why does the soulnado theory make so much sense to you when

A. Noob's ending in Deception (while non-canon) states how Noob Saibot was born. The evil within Bi-Han was what made him. Since he didn't change on earth, he was still evil. The netherealm just further tainted that and from it Noob Saibot was born. Therefore, Noob Saibot really is Bi-Han.

B. The soulnado should kill him unless the elder gods save him. Now, let's take this into account for a second. One style is also grandmaster. So, whoever Sub-Zero is in all likeliness becomes grandmaster. So, you're arguing that NRS has not only given him Scorpion's deception storyline, but he's also taking Kuai Liang's grandmaster storyline? So, how is that good to just copy/paste two other character's stories onto him? I'm not arguing whether I LIKE it or not. I don't like it, but that's not the point. The point is it's just bad and lazy writing.

C. How does the soulnado theory even work? I've already listed the ways in which people have tried to make it work, but none of you can really even agree how it works. Does Bi-Han become good after he leaves the soulnado? If so, would this not kill his "badass" persona? Does Noob Saibot live or does he die for good? Personally, if it's the evil in Bi-Han then it should die all together shouldn't it? Do people really want Noob gone for good? Does Bi-Han somehow keep his bad ass persona even if Noob Saibot leaves him? How does that even work?

D. (I will mention Kuai here) What happens to Kuai Liang? Are his fans just to expect he's gone for good? Was he not last named Sub-Zero even though he was a cyborg? Also, Noob Saibot fans. A lot of people like him as Bi-Han. Are Noob Saibot fans just screwed out of luck?

So, tell me now. Why does it make so much sense to you? Why do you consider it set in stone that this is Bi-Han? I mean it could be, but you seem to think it's pretty concrete.
 
A. Noob Saibot's ending also mentions that if he were still human, AKA Bi Han, he would have shown pride. And that his soul was only tainted when he died by Scorpion's hand. So he was first tainted by Scorpion, and then was further tainted by Quan Chi resurrecting him with the Wraith assist. Bi Han is not completely evil.


B. They could easily give Bi Han Scorpion's storyline as well as Kuai Liang's. Because both of those characters had terrible storylines after MK4, and they would benefit from something new.


C. Nobody can agree on the outcome, but we can agree on how it works. Nightwolf kicks Noob Saibot into the Soulnado. His tainted body corrupts the Soulnado as it is destroyed, as seen by the Soulnado changing colors. What happens next is divided into multiple theories that various memebers have come up with.


My personal one is Bi Han and Saibot are separated. The elder gods save him from certain death. They ask him once again for his help against Shinnok and offer him anything he wants. He asks to be rid off the wraith that corrupted him. They oblige and what happens to the wraith is anyone's guess. Either it is destroyed or is sent to back to the Netherrealm, possibly to fuse with Kuai Liang? That'd be one hell of a twist.


D. Kuai Liang's body still exists. And since his body is that of a cyborg, it can be reprogrammed. Perhaps by Sektor? Or we could go with the idea that he fuses with Saibot.


I know that you personally hate these ideas, so I welcome you to state why you think they are inaccurate or impossible.
 
A. So are you saying that it was Scorpion who tainted his soul by killing him or what? Raiden just warned him (in mythologies) that if he died with his soul corrupted that he would suffer a terrible fate. His soul was corrupted. Scorpion didn't corrupt him. I don't know why you're implying that. Quan and Raiden both told him his soul was corrupted. Bi-Han was mostly evil. Sparing Sareena does not make a good guy. Hanzo Hasashi begged for his life, and Bi-Han still killed him right there. Does that not sound like a man with no conscience?

B. See that's your opinion. Like my opinion is that Shujinko is a glorified chameleon. Just because you think their storylines are bad does not mean they are. Also, if you deem them bad why do you want them on Bi-Han anyway? You like Bi-Han right?

C. As you just mentioned the soulnado has already imploded or vanished. The elder gods seemingly don't know of Shinnok's plans which is what makes him so dangerous.

So, if the soulnado has already ended or been destroyed, how can the elder gods save someone from that soulnado? Especially when the soulnado has already ripped him to shreds.

Also, assume Havik has already saved him from the soulnado for whatever reason? Why can Bi-han not fight against Shinnok as Noob Saibot? I mean his ending in MK9 even hints it. So does his old storyline.

D. Now, I throw in a like for Kuai. I would hate that. You are saying he ends up a slave to Sektor or becomes Noob Saibot, even though he has never shown these hints of evil like his brother did?

Let's also bring up the fact that Cyber Sub-Zero is not liked. He's been widely panned. Why kill Noob Saibot and his persona when he's liked instead of killing cyber sub-zero who is not liked? Plus, MK9 let it be known that their souls are now fully independent of their bodies apparently.
 
Subz 711 said:
A. So are you saying that it was Scorpion who tainted his soul by killing him or what? Raiden just warned him (in mythologies) that if he died with his soul corrupted that he would suffer a terrible fate. His soul was corrupted. Scorpion didn't corrupt him. I don't know why you're implying that. Quan and Raiden both told him his soul was corrupted. Bi-Han was mostly evil. Sparing Sareena does not make a good guy. Hanzo Hasashi begged for his life, and Bi-Han still killed him right there. Does that not sound like a man with no conscience?

B. See that's your opinion. Like my opinion is that Shujinko is a glorified chameleon. Just because you think their storylines are bad does not mean they are. Also, if you deem them bad why do you want them on Bi-Han anyway? You like Bi-Han right?

C. As you just mentioned the soulnado has already imploded or vanished. The elder gods seemingly don't know of Shinnok's plans which is what makes him so dangerous.

So, if the soulnado has already ended or been destroyed, how can the elder gods save someone from that soulnado? Especially when the soulnado has already ripped him to shreds.

Also, assume Havik has already saved him from the soulnado for whatever reason? Why can Bi-han not fight against Shinnok as Noob Saibot? I mean his ending in MK9 even hints it. So does his old storyline.

D. Now, I throw in a like for Kuai. I would hate that. You are saying he ends up a slave to Sektor or becomes Noob Saibot, even though he has never shown these hints of evil like his brother did?

Let's also bring up the fact that Cyber Sub-Zero is not liked. He's been widely panned. Why kill Noob Saibot and his persona when he's liked instead of killing cyber sub-zero who is not liked? Plus, MK9 let it be known that their souls are now fully independent of their bodies apparently.
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A. Many characters have a taint in their soul. That doesn't mean they're evil. Or do you think Shujinko, for example, are evil ?

B. Even if it would be a lack of imagination, that doesn't mean NRS won't do a fuse in their storylines, because it can create something interresting (Bi-Han saved by the Elder Gods and ask to become the Lin Kuei Grandmaster in exchange of his service as their champion).

C. Have you ever seen a soulnado in real life ? It's normal. Only NRS can choose how it works.

D. If survivability was dependant of the popularity, it would be sad to see the same faces over and over.

NRS want to explore a new way, not consider the same story again. Why make a reboot if it was to keep what they have already written ?
 
Robot Kuai is a piece of crap and the worst thing that ever happened. The character model is shit too. its a rip off of the predator.

Besides why the hell would NRS mess with Noob saibot? He was one of the best characters in MK9.

MK9 was the best selling MK game and it acquired many fans. Certain characters particularly, Noob, Kenshi, Ermac, etc. got larger fan bases. You screw over Noob you screw the fans and you also screw sub zero fans. LOL.

Bi Han ain't sub zero anymore.
Kuai Liang aka Cyber Subz is still Sub zero.
 
I wonder how anybody could still think Noob-Saibot is playable after Scorpion took his gimmick and Ferra/Torr were revealed.
 
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He's got a point, Scorpion has his shadow-assist gimmick now.

Plus, the Sub-Zero in MK X has demonstrated very Bi-Han characteristics.

And in any case, the reason MK: Armageddon was made was because they wanted to refresh the palette, start completely fresh by killing everyone, they did that again with MK9, and this game is likely going to have at least 12 new characters based off of Ed Boon's comments, so getting rid of old characters that were dead or presumed killed and could be turned into something different makes sense with that vision.

Kid NOVA said:
Robot Kuai is a piece of crap and the worst thing that ever happened. The character model is shit too. its a rip off of the predator.
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You're aware the Cyborg Ninja's were inspired by the Predator from the very beginning, right?
 
Okay, do the posters who think that the Sub-Zero fighting Scorpion isn't Bi-Han think that MKX will pull the "LOLLOLLOL SCORPION THINKS KUAI-LANG/NEW SUB/WHATEVER KILLED HIS CLAN!!!!" thing? Would any of you take Scorpion seriously if that happened?
 
Galden said:
Okay, do the posters who think that the Sub-Zero fighting Scorpion isn't Bi-Han think that MKX will pull the "LOLLOLLOL SCORPION THINKS KUAI-LANG/NEW SUB/WHATEVER KILLED HIS CLAN!!!!" thing? Would any of you take Scorpion seriously if that happened?
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I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that this could happen? People have already confused the two. If Quan lied to Scorpion again it would be believable. Scorpion believes and trusts Quan as well.

However, the soulnado story sounds better to you all. Copying/Pasting storylines is okay as well. Okay...
 
Subz 711 said:
I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that this could happen? People have already confused the two. If Quan lied to Scorpion again it would be believable. Scorpion believes and trusts Quan as well.

However, the soulnado story sounds better to you all. Copying/Pasting storylines is okay as well. Okay...
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It's not about what is the better story (the better story is neither of two because one is noob and the other is dead), but about what Boon will surely do.
 
Subz 711 said:
How do you know this?
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Because he don't have many solutions.

1 > Sub-Zero is Kuai. It implies to break the resurrect scheme of Quan Chi (because Noob changed in his resurrection and Scorpion too, why Sub-Zero don't change ?)
2 > Sub-Zero is a new character. In that case, why he isn't a cyber ninja ? It would be hard to explain clearly how Lin Kuei come back in their decision when Cyrax and Sektor prove their efficiency.
3 > Sub-Zero is Bi-Han like many of us believe. It implies to use a scenario already use, but players know that soulnado works this way.

What do you think is the more probable ?

And don't use the case of Sindel for my 1st because her resurrection can't be compared (her soul was owned by Shao Kahn and not by Quan Chi, and we didn't see her before her resurrection).
 
Scorpion is basically the undead version of what he was in life. He just has fire powers now.

In Kuai's case, he's dead. He's a dead guy under the control of a guy who controls the dead. They're not going to have to reach very far to bring him back.

If you bring Bi-Han back through the soulnado you have to answer why didn't it do this to Scorpion in the old timeline? What happens to Kuai and Noob? Also, don't say Kuai becomes Sektor's slave. Yeah, because that wouldn't further piss his fans off at all.

I want to know something else? Why can't Bi-Han develop as Noob Saibot to you all? I've already explained he's evil. He has the badass attitude. I mean he has what you guys want. Except for the name Sub-Zero.
 
Subz 711 said:
Scorpion is basically the undead version of what he was in life. He just has fire powers now.

In Kuai's case, he's dead. He's a dead guy under the control of a guy who controls the dead. They're not going to have to reach very far to bring him back.

If you bring Bi-Han back through the soulnado you have to answer why didn't it do this to Scorpion in the old timeline? What happens to Kuai and Noob? Also, don't say Kuai becomes Sektor's slave. Yeah, because that wouldn't further piss his fans off at all.

I want to know something else? Why can't Bi-Han develop as Noob Saibot to you all? I've already explained he's evil. He has the badass attitude. I mean he has what you guys want. Except for the name Sub-Zero.
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I don't understand the question for Scorpion.

With my theory, Kuai is dead and I don't think Quan Chi could resurrect souls at will. If that was the case, Shinnok would control a vast unstoppable army (all edenians, all outworld and earth warriors fallen in Mortal Kombat, etc...

As to Noob, I think he's not a separated part of Bi-Han but just his new name when he gained new power. And if it was a demon add to his soul, so my theory implies they are now separate.

I never say Bi-Han can't be developed as Noob Saibot anymore. I just think that of the three possibilities for this new Sub-Zero, the Bi-Han's one is the best for Boon because others implies so many questions.

Could you reformulate the question about Scorpion ?
 
It's not a question, Scorpion is basically the same guy he was in life. He just now has fire powers. He never had fire powers in life. Noob Saibot is basically the same person as well, it's just the evil inside him became even MORE evil when he died. He also couldn't use his ice powers in death. I don't know if that was a result of being in the netherealm or a result of the evil doing something to his powers.

Anyway, your point is moot because Quan Chi has already reanimated the heroes in the netherealm. They still have their powers as well. Idk why Quan Chi would bring him back to human form. All I'm saying is Quan Chi has a Sub-Zero under his control, and that Sub-Zero still controls ice. He's just a cyborg right now. If they find a way around that then Sub-Zero is back.
 
Subz 711 said:
It's not a question, Scorpion is basically the same guy he was in life. He just now has fire powers. He never had fire powers in life. Noob Saibot is basically the same person as well, it's just the evil inside him became even MORE evil when he died. He also couldn't use his ice powers in death. I don't know if that was a result of being in the netherealm or a result of the evil doing something to his powers.

Anyway, your point is moot because Quan Chi has already reanimated the heroes in the netherealm. They still have their powers as well. Idk why Quan Chi would bring him back to human form. All I'm saying is Quan Chi has a Sub-Zero under his control, and that Sub-Zero still controls ice. He's just a cyborg right now. If they find a way around that then Sub-Zero is back.
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You're wrong. Raiden don't fight resurrected heroes in the last chapter of MK9, he fight their souls... or images created by Shinnok like the ones created to fight Taven in MK:A... but certainly not reanimated heroes. Anyhow, that was what I understand while playing the game.
 
Exactly, souls are whatever they are, Raiden fought them.

Noob Saibot didn't have a body left at all. So, Quan Chi had to use his soul to create him.
 
Subz 711 said:
Exactly, souls are whatever they are, Raiden fought them.

Noob Saibot didn't have a body left at all. So, Quan Chi had to use his soul to create him.
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What?

Noob Saibot and Scorpion were explicitly said to have been resurrected into their current forms, the fighters at the end of 9 were just souls. What are you even trying to say with this?

It doesnt matter if their bodies were left behind or not.

Do you mean thats justification for him being human again? Its pretty flimsy.
 
[MENTION=7297]Sn202[/MENTION]

Um, do you not remember Scorpion bringing Bi-Han's skull and spine back from the netherealm? His body did not exist anymore. So, by process of elimination, what part of Bi-Han is left for Noob Saibot to be born from?

Oh and his Deception ending which states Bi-Han's soul was already tainted and when he went to the netherealm it was further tainted. Thus, he became Noob Saibot.

I'm not justifying anything. I'm just saying that Quan Chi has formed new bodies before. He has Sub-Zero in his control. Sub-Zero also still controls ice. All they have to do is make an excuse for why Quan Chi wants him human again. Quan Chi is devious, he may have a reason for doing so. If no other reason than to screw with Scorpion's head further.
 
Subz 711 said:
[MENTION=7297]Sn202[/MENTION]

Um, do you not remember Scorpion bringing Bi-Han's skull and spine back from the netherealm? His body did not exist anymore. So, by process of elimination, what part of Bi-Han is left for Noob Saibot to be born from?

Oh and his Deception ending which states Bi-Han's soul was already tainted and when he went to the netherealm it was further tainted. Thus, he became Noob Saibot.

I'm not justifying anything. I'm just saying that Quan Chi has formed new bodies before. He has Sub-Zero in his control. Sub-Zero also still controls ice. All they have to do is make an excuse for why Quan Chi wants him human again. Quan Chi is devious, he may have a reason for doing so. If no other reason than to screw with Scorpion's head further.
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That is an incredibly stupid idea that i doubt any writer would use.
 
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