MK LEGACY 3 (almost here I just got told!)

I think WB definitely is planning on a movie but is using the Web series to test the waters in how it should be done. The games revived the franchise and it's pretty much mainstream again. There's definitely money to be made with a movie and now I'd the time to do it. I just wish they would actually get things moving with it. I have a theory that they're taking their time to form a franchise of movies out of it like batman and the suicide squad movies. That's just wishful thinking for me, but it would make sense.

Of course that's what they want. The question is how do they make it as good as (or, chance permitting, better than) the first movie... as opposed to as disastrously, catastrophically shitty as (or, God forbid, worse than) the second.

MK doesn't easily lend itself to a great film plot, and while a lot of people are asking for a story that stays close to the games, that's... kind of been done. In the first MK film. It had basically everything any MK1 adaptation could possibly want except more iconic locations and more Scorpion/Sub-Zero stuff.
 
The first MK movie was far from great. It was okay at best and the movie has not aged well without nostalgia glasses. Bad CG, corny acting, the PG-13 rating and stupid changes to the story source material hurt the movie for me. Even as a kid in the 90's, I found the first MK movie kinda overrated since the hype for that movie was all over the place back in 1995.
 
The first MK movie was far from great. It was okay at best and the movie has not aged well without nostalgia glasses. Bad CG, corny acting, the PG-13 rating and stupid changes to the story source material hurt the movie for me. Even as a kid in the 90's, I found the first MK movie kinda overrated since the hype for that movie was all over the place back in 1995.

It hasn't aged well? Compared to all the other video game movies that have aged splendidly?

It's a movie about people fighting. Compare it to Enter the Dragon and it holds up just fine. I don't see how you'll get a better MK film without doing away with all the supernatural shit in the franchise. Which I wouldn't mind seeing attempted, but most people have a hard-on for faithful adaptations, so that's not very likely.
 
Most movie video game adaptions are crap and saying MK is the best out of all of them is not saying much. The 1995 film could have been better back in 1995. I still hate how Liu Kang killed Sub-Zero instead of Scorpion and Johnny Cage killing off Goro. I also didn't like how they made Scorpion and Sub-Zero working for Shang Tsung. It's not a bad movie, but it's not great neither. I still feel like that they could make a MK movie better then the original film.
 
Most movie video game adaptions are crap and saying MK is the best out of all of them is not saying much. The 1995 film could have been better back in 1995. I still hate how Liu Kang killed Sub-Zero instead of Scorpion and Johnny Cage killing off Goro. I also didn't like how they made Scorpion and Sub-Zero working for Shang Tsung. It's not a bad movie, but it's not great neither. I still feel like that they could make a MK movie better then the original film.

Making the film a more faithful adaptation won't make it a better film... it'll just make it a more faithful adaptation. You might enjoy it more, but the critics certainly don't give a shit if it's Scorpion or Liu Kang beating Sub-Zero.

My original point wasn't about "what sort of MK movie would I think is really frickin rad," it was about the business decision NRS and WB have ahead of them in converting MK into a film brand again. Remaking "1995 MK but even more faithful to MK1 this time!" in 2015 is a recipe for catastrophic disaster. No one but the hardcore fans would see the appeal.

Does it even make sense to do a faithful reboot? Look at MKL/Generations, Liu Kang isn't the hero of those story, he's an anti-villain. A sympathetic villain. Look at MK9, he's an anti-hero who opposes the actual protagonist, Raiden. Look at MKX, he's a straight up douchebag (and likely to be an even bigger one in MK11). So everywhere we look, NRS is pitching Liu Kang as this bad guy with redeemable intentions, and in the movie we're just going to go back to him being this saintly Bruce Lee clone? Talk about your branding confusion. It doesn't sound like a good business decision for NRS to have fifty completely different Liu Kangs running around at the same time, some of them being good guys while others are anti-heroes while others are villains.

At the same time, Johnny Cage is presently one of the mainest main characters in the franchise, and your faithful adaptation of MK1 has him doing... what in the movie? Scorpion beats Sub-Zero, Liu Kang beats Goro, Sonya beats Kano, and Johnny Cage just... hangs out? Johnny Cage is the guy who can be played by a bankable, known white Hollywood actor who's going to draw in the big crowds. And you reduce him to a bit part for the sake of canon that doesn't matter in an adaptation.

I don't see WB being interested in this option at all.
 
Nobody respects canon.

Make canon and I DOUBT people won't like it.

Adaptations suck because they want to invent too much.

MK Movie (1995) is cool because I think they captured nice things from the franchise, and they got pretty good fights. Yet they invented a lot of BS.

But we should look at the second one. Absurd bullshit. Joined MKII with MK3 having no care. Idiotic characters, idiotic fights, idiotic plots.

MK Legacy is cool. But why the hell put people like hundreds of years old, powers explained on the island, Ermac connected to Sento because of Shao Kahn, innocent Sub-Zero, Bi-Han and Hanzo childhood friends (ok, that could be cool, but Kuai Liang is the jerk of the family), Shao Kahn common guy...

I mean, just f***ing read the story and make a plot.

You have too much space for your creativity without killing the original idea.

Pick MK4, that IMO is the game that has the poorest backstory told by Midway.

You know the fights, the rivalries, you know the beginning, the end, but you don't know what idead connect it.

Instead of doing it right, they would put Reptile winning against Shinnok fused with Quan Chi, after discovering that Raiden is Liu Kang's father with Sonya.
 
But why the hell put people like hundreds of years old

I actually thought that Kenshi being super old worked really, really well for the character. It made sense of MK:A Konquest's screwed up chronology, and it fit really well with the image of Kenshi being a wandering swordsman. Not too many wandering swordsmen around these days, but back in Feudal Japan, hells to the yeah it was a thing.

Ermac connected to Sento because of Shao Kahn

Eh, Ermac is a guy made up of souls, Sento is a sword made up of souls... it's not much of a stretch, is it? For the webseries, it was important for them to have a character who could work as a rival to Kenshi, and the only other lore-based character they could have used for that role was Shang Tsung which they might not have wanted to do because of the actor's age.

Obviously I agree about the shitshow that was MK:A. It's one thing to make responsible changes in an effort to maintain some kind of vision in your adaptation, it's another to lick some paint and then jump off a cliff while fornicating with the anus of a beloved franchise in midair.
 
I actually thought that Kenshi being super old worked really, really well for the character. It made sense of MK:A Konquest's screwed up chronology, and it fit really well with the image of Kenshi being a wandering swordsman. Not too many wandering swordsmen around these days, but back in Feudal Japan, hells to the yeah it was a thing.



Eh, Ermac is a guy made up of souls, Sento is a sword made up of souls... it's not much of a stretch, is it? For the webseries, it was important for them to have a character who could work as a rival to Kenshi, and the only other lore-based character they could have used for that role was Shang Tsung which they might not have wanted to do because of the actor's age.

Obviously I agree about the shitshow that was MK:A. It's one thing to make responsible changes in an effort to maintain some kind of vision in your adaptation, it's another to lick some paint and then jump off a cliff while fornicating with the anus of a beloved franchise in midair.
MK: D didn't screw anything. Travelling between the realms explains the time passing. And Kenshi encounters Shujinko before MK1, then goes training for years with Nightwolf, then goes to the Netherrealm. No confusion or inconsistency with that.

Of course making that relation is BS. Ermac is made of souls of Edenia. Sento houses the souls of the Warrior Kings. Shao Kahn didn't create Sento. Just because it has souls and Ermac is made of souls, it doesn't mean it makes sense.

By that logic we can say that Shao Kahn, Ermac, Shang Tsung, Sento, Soulnado, Netherrealm, Quan Chi are the same thing.

They are just lazy to get deep into the lore. If I was creator of something of success, I would never let people BS my creation with their lazy plots like all of these ones we've got so far.

Sent from Earthrealm. Please, beware the Thunder God!
 
MK: D didn't screw anything. Travelling between the realms explains the time passing. And Kenshi encounters Shujinko before MK1, then goes training for years with Nightwolf, then goes to the Netherrealm. No confusion or inconsistency with that.

Shujinko first meets Kenshi when he (Shujinko) is a teenager, and Kenshi is already a grown man who has wandered the realms, become a powerful warrior, and been tricked by Shang Tsung.

Shujinko next meets Kenshi when he is in his forties or fifties, just in time for the MK1 tournament. That should make Kenshi at least fifty years old during MK1, but we can see in MK9 and MKX that that is very clearly not the case.

I'm happy to dismiss it as just some shitty writing, but I'm also perfectly fine with MK:L using it to add depth to Kenshi.

Of course making that relation is BS. Ermac is made of souls of Edenia. Sento houses the souls of the Warrior Kings. Shao Kahn didn't create Sento. Just because it has souls and Ermac is made of souls, it doesn't mean it makes sense.

By that logic we can say that Shao Kahn, Ermac, Shang Tsung, Sento, Soulnado, Netherrealm, Quan Chi are the same thing.

You're focusing too much on your own expectations, and not giving any consideration to practical realities. Kevin Tancharoen can't just do whatever he wants. He has a limited budget with which to film his series. He has a limited number of episodes in which to tell his story. And he has to contend with the limitations of his actors - for example, Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa is getting on in years and he can still deliver the dramatic performances just fine, but he's probably not gonna be able to fight anyone.

Kenshi needs to have a fight. This fight needs to be dramatic. Look at the other fights: Kitana vs Mileena, Liu Kang vs Stryker/Johnny Cage/Kung Lao, Scorpion vs Sub-Zero, all these characters either have backstories that pit them against each other, or the circumstances on the show are very compelling. Who else but Shang Tsung is there? Kenshi's not the main character the way Johnny Cage/Liu Kang are, so there isn't time to do an elaborate 4 episode arc for him in a season that's less than 10 episodes long. His backstory had to efficiently tie in to his battle in the tournament. Ermac makes as much sense as anyone - he's ageless.

You might argue that the choices Kevin made aren't ideal - although I prefer his Kenshi to NRS's - but you should still be able to see why he felt compelled to make them.

If you wanna complain about something, how about Ermac's atrocious costume, and the fact that we saw the same fight in 5 different episodes, which is time that could have been spent developing the characters or the plot.
 
Shujinko first meets Kenshi when he (Shujinko) is a teenager, and Kenshi is already a grown man who has wandered the realms, become a powerful warrior, and been tricked by Shang Tsung.

Shujinko next meets Kenshi when he is in his forties or fifties, just in time for the MK1 tournament. That should make Kenshi at least fifty years old during MK1, but we can see in MK9 and MKX that that is very clearly not the case.

I'm happy to dismiss it as just some shitty writing, but I'm also perfectly fine with MK:L using it to add depth to Kenshi.



You're focusing too much on your own expectations, and not giving any consideration to practical realities. Kevin Tancharoen can't just do whatever he wants. He has a limited budget with which to film his series. He has a limited number of episodes in which to tell his story. And he has to contend with the limitations of his actors - for example, Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa is getting on in years and he can still deliver the dramatic performances just fine, but he's probably not gonna be able to fight anyone.

Kenshi needs to have a fight. This fight needs to be dramatic. Look at the other fights: Kitana vs Mileena, Liu Kang vs Stryker/Johnny Cage/Kung Lao, Scorpion vs Sub-Zero, all these characters either have backstories that pit them against each other, or the circumstances on the show are very compelling. Who else but Shang Tsung is there? Kenshi's not the main character the way Johnny Cage/Liu Kang are, so there isn't time to do an elaborate 4 episode arc for him in a season that's less than 10 episodes long. His backstory had to efficiently tie in to his battle in the tournament. Ermac makes as much sense as anyone - he's ageless.

You might argue that the choices Kevin made aren't ideal - although I prefer his Kenshi to NRS's - but you should still be able to see why he felt compelled to make them.

If you wanna complain about something, how about Ermac's atrocious costume, and the fact that we saw the same fight in 5 different episodes, which is time that could have been spent developing the characters or the plot.

I can still complain about that and the lazy plots.

Serioulsy, if you wanna do something, do it complete.

Don't have budget to do a decent MK shortmovie/movie? Just don't do it.

I really don't care about these directors. They are feed by us. So, I'm focusing on expectations of the original story.

We have many idiocit plots today exactly because of that: the guy that knows nothing of something wants to improve something. And starts creating a lot of BS. MK Annihilation is no different, despite being far worse than MK:L (which was pretty interesting to watch).

I mean, they wanted to bring Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa as Shang Tsung, right?

They know many of us love him, how iconic he is, that he is popular, would make many people watch, but they do know the sacrifice they had to do to have him. And they should deal with their choices.

Movie Shang tsung is there. Many views. Money from clicks. But what about a consistent story?

Instead of putting that pile of mud they called Ermac fighting Kenshi, they could easily use a young Shang Tsung (not dismissing Mr. Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, for Elder Gods sake! :laugh: ), as they used on Season 1 (not necessarily the same, that guy was extremely young, but, he can morph into anyone, so who cares?), and make him fight.

Or, despite the fact that MK:L Kenshi was pretty cool (really looked like the original), was he really necessary?

Was his distorted plot really important? He didn't even need to fight Shang Tsung if the actor's age is the problem, just make the original plot and then put him fighting anyone there that would be a good match (even Ermac would be cool, if he wasn't...you know). Season 3 is there for it, they screwed up everything, Shang Tsung could wait.

Otherwise, once again, despite his cool role, it was unnecessary to kill the original plot to make some BS.

They put Stryker. Was he really necessary? On MK1? Doing nothing, except having his ass kicked just to be saved?

[...]

Look at Sektor and Cyrax episode. IMO it was one of the best.

Fine plot, more faithful than anything, nice effects, nice fights.

Space for director creativity-BS? Yes. They killed Hydro (no one cares) and they put Kano (RIP) as involved. Not original, but still interesting.

They should fill holes but keep faithful to the main plot, that's what I think, if you ask. And that's the problem with MK:L, with MKX Comics...they just can't stand filling holes in a game that has MANY dead ends, lots of interesting things to address, but they wanna make their story, and they mess up everything, then people start confusing canon (hundreds of years old characters is as BS-fictional-fan made as MK: Annihilation), and everytime something must be affirmed, etc.

[...]

About the Deception, the game didn't depict anyone with different skins.

Shujinko has that little issue on Chaosrealm about ages.

Travelling between the realms, on that game, implies time differences.

Raiden asks Shujinko for help to strike the Deadly Alliance, and our hero goes to Orderrealm (prision), and stays there for decades, but when he comes back, Raiden has just attacked the Deadly Alliance on Deception's intro events.

Time is relative, and the game got messed sometimes because of the time of the choices.
 
Raiden asks Shujinko for help to strike the Deadly Alliance, and our hero goes to Orderrealm (prision), and stays there for decades, but when he comes back, Raiden has just attacked the Deadly Alliance on Deception's intro events.

Time is relative, and the game got messed sometimes because of the time of the choices.
They put Stryker. Was he really necessary? On MK1? Doing nothing, except having his ass kicked just to be saved?

What I don't understand is why you're holding these directors and comic writers to a higher standard than the people who actually own Mortal Kombat, and who decided how things should be, but then simply said "screw that" and changed their minds.

In Deception, as you admit, the timeline makes no sense. Regardless of Kenshi's physical appearance, he can't already be a powerful warrior who lost his sight to Shang Tsung the first time Shujinko meets him, because we know that Shujinko ages over 30 years between their first and second meeting, so Kenshi has to be at least 50 in MK1 which he obviously is not. It's bad, sloppy writing. Like your Raiden example.

In Shaolin Monks and MK9, Kung Lao's personality was completely changed from what it used to be. Then they forgot that Taven beat Blaze in MK:A and had Shao Kahn do it instead. Then they put Nightwolf, Sektor, Cyrax, Kung Lao, Sheeva, Baraka, Kitana, Jade, Quan Chi, and Ermac into the MK1 tournament. Then they completely changed Mileena's origin. Then, in MKX, they completely reinvented the biology of Mileena's physical appearance, for the first time since her introduction.

If NRS is allowed to get away with that, then I see absolutely no reason why the people they hire (Shawn Kittelsen) or allow to adapt their work (Kevin Tancharoen) in the hopes of increasing MK's exposure, shouldn't also be allowed to make whatever changes they like. The writers at NRS don't consider their own work sacred, why should anyone else?

Instead of putting that pile of mud they called Ermac fighting Kenshi, they could easily use a young Shang Tsung (not dismissing Mr. Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, for Elder Gods sake! :laugh: ), as they used on Season 1 (not necessarily the same, that guy was extremely young, but, he can morph into anyone, so who cares?), and make him fight.

The MK1 tournament is Shang Tsung's tournament, meaning he is either not supposed to fight at all but does because he's shocked that Goro was defeated (MK1/Shaolin Monks/MK film), or he always intended to fight but only as the "final boss" (MK9). Either way, Shang Tsung fighting Kenshi while there are still fights happening on the island makes no sense.

They should fill holes but keep faithful to the main plot, that's what I think, if you ask. And that's the problem with MK:L, with MKX Comics...they just can't stand filling holes in a game that has MANY dead ends, lots of interesting things to address, but they wanna make their story, and they mess up everything, then people start confusing canon

I'm confused. Do you not want Mortal Kombat to have a permanent, on-going comic book series for the next 10 years?

An on-going series needs its own story, it can't just be filling in plot holes for 5 years. No one would buy that.

(hundreds of years old characters is as BS-fictional-fan made as MK: Annihilation)

You make it sound like Kenshi being hundreds of years old would be silly. Shang Tsung is hundreds of years old and so is Erron Black. It happens in the Mortal Kombat universe. If Kenshi was that old, it really wouldn't be that strange, especially because he (like Erron Black) has the connection to Shang Tsung's magic to explain it.
 
What I don't understand is why you're holding these directors and comic writers to a higher standard than the people who actually own Mortal Kombat, and who decided how things should be, but then simply said "screw that" and changed their minds.

In Deception, as you admit, the timeline makes no sense. Regardless of Kenshi's physical appearance, he can't already be a powerful warrior who lost his sight to Shang Tsung the first time Shujinko meets him, because we know that Shujinko ages over 30 years between their first and second meeting, so Kenshi has to be at least 50 in MK1 which he obviously is not. It's bad, sloppy writing. Like your Raiden example.

In Shaolin Monks and MK9, Kung Lao's personality was completely changed from what it used to be. Then they forgot that Taven beat Blaze in MK:A and had Shao Kahn do it instead. Then they put Nightwolf, Sektor, Cyrax, Kung Lao, Sheeva, Baraka, Kitana, Jade, Quan Chi, and Ermac into the MK1 tournament. Then they completely changed Mileena's origin. Then, in MKX, they completely reinvented the biology of Mileena's physical appearance, for the first time since her introduction.

If NRS is allowed to get away with that, then I see absolutely no reason why the people they hire (Shawn Kittelsen) or allow to adapt their work (Kevin Tancharoen) in the hopes of increasing MK's exposure, shouldn't also be allowed to make whatever changes they like. The writers at NRS don't consider their own work sacred, why should anyone else?



The MK1 tournament is Shang Tsung's tournament, meaning he is either not supposed to fight at all but does because he's shocked that Goro was defeated (MK1/Shaolin Monks/MK film), or he always intended to fight but only as the "final boss" (MK9). Either way, Shang Tsung fighting Kenshi while there are still fights happening on the island makes no sense.



I'm confused. Do you not want Mortal Kombat to have a permanent, on-going comic book series for the next 10 years?

An on-going series needs its own story, it can't just be filling in plot holes for 5 years. No one would buy that.



You make it sound like Kenshi being hundreds of years old would be silly. Shang Tsung is hundreds of years old and so is Erron Black. It happens in the Mortal Kombat universe. If Kenshi was that old, it really wouldn't be that strange, especially because he (like Erron Black) has the connection to Shang Tsung's magic to explain it.

- Creators give them the rights. They do anything they want. I'm not putting them on the same standard, but it's always official, and, for the comics, it's more drastic, since it's said to be canon.

- I didn't said the timeline makes no sense. I said they worked with the relativity of time, and what messes up about it is that players choices (quests) are not very well organized (so it's mechanical, not story).

It's almost Einsten's theory of time. But not explained there.

- They didn't forgot Taven. It's called non canon hollocaust, something that I hate, and that's why I hate non canon BS, specially when the directors and writers decide to think more than the creator. On this case, that was particular to MK:A. Vogel said they changed their minds about Taven winning.

- Nobody can affirm that Nightwolf, Sektor, Cyrax, Kung Lao, Sheeva, Baraka, Kitana, Jade, Quan Chi, and Ermac weren't on MK1. They weren't invented at that time, besides the fact that the game can't be the actual tournament, unless people killed each other. And MK:D showed more than MK1.

- NRS is the major writer. They make the canon. They wanna spread series and all of that, so they allow thesepeople to work. But none of them are part of the story team, that's what matters. I wouldn't care, if they didn't try to tell stories already told the way they like. It's annoying IMO.

- I know Tsung vs Kenshi makes no sense. That's why I said that Kenshi's inclusion with that origin is BS, despite the fact he was awesome. They invent another thing that is not the original for no reason at all.

- I don't understand your confusion. I never said that. What I'm saying is that you can create respecting the limits of coherence, and MK leaves many dead ends, enough space to explore. And if it had for the next 10 years, I don't see the problem, except real probability of happening.

No one? Everybody here thought the comics were faithful plot hole filling until we saw the game. Almost everybody bought, and probably everybody read. You are a visitor of that thread as I am. Look how desert it is because of inconsistencies. Did people just stop being MK fans? Of course not. But it's annoying many times.

- Of course being hundreds of years old is NOT silly. Actually, is awesome. (Humans only) Shang Tsung being hundreds of years old is incredbile. Erron Black being hundreds of years old is very cool. But Kenshi isn't. Kenshi was never hundreds of years old. That's what matters to me. So if a guy films a movie and says that Sub-Zero is japanese, Bi-Han is a nice guy, he and Scorpion lived in feudal Japan, Kenshi is hundreds, Raiden is an idiot, Stryker is Stryker, etc. it's no more than a guy going o deviantart or anywhere writing a story.
 
Well, i really hope there is another big movie. But please, no chinese Kitana like that actress from Legacy or Jade from MK Annihilation. Hope they keep them really close of what they really are in games.
 
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