Online Ranking System

[DeadDogsEye]

Don't know if this has been posted anywhere else yet, but i was wondering if anyone knows anything about how points/kredits will be awarded during online matches, or how their "level up" system will work. I haven't seen much of anything about this yet.

 

[n9195v]

thats a great question, but i can't answer it for i don not know the answer. but i hope someone can

 

[BBBLP]

I hope there is none.
If there is, you can count on boosters and an abnormal amount of ragequiters.

 

[Immortal Reaver]

Not sure, I don't think it's been talked about yet. I hope the ranks are invisible though, so people don't obsess and nerd rage over them. I like the ranking system in Gears of War 2. The trueskill rank that matches you up with players is hidden, but there are ranks for each player that you can see that shows how much they play that go from 1-100. That means that it matches you up with people of similar skill, but people don't obsess over their rank. But then they have a visible EXP-based rank that doesn't go down if you lose.

I hope there is none.
If there is, you can count on boosters and an abnormal amount of ragequiters.

I hope there is at least an EXP-based one. If there are no ranks whatsoever then people will lose interest. It's sad to say, but most people nowadays only play games for ranking up.

 

[n9195v]

i for one hope there is one. you could get money for beating players on ranked games . the higher there level the higher the payoff (if you win)

 

[DeadDogsEye]

I hope there is none.
If there is, you can count on boosters and an abnormal amount of ragequiters.

I hope, in the least, that they will just show your w/l record. with certain win exp going towards icons and whatnot. i think it would be quite foolish if they were to allow any sort of boosters like some COD ********. i dont think many people will rage quit just for a loss on their record, if so, they need to get a life.

 

[blackice87]

The people who rage quit are only cheating themselves, they will die
off because they won't win at a competitive level and therefore get
"bored" regardless.

IMO, the system should be similar to SSF4 (again), have EXP points
for individual characters, this will basically increase substantially
everytime you win and decrease everytime you lose. Also it should
have seperate SKILL points, this should increment/decrement
based on your opponents skill points.

All points/ranks/info should be available for everyone to see.

 

[DeadDogsEye]

yea, i agree with that, I liked the SSF4 system, but the thing is people would see your stats and quit before the match would even start. so it would take like 15 minutes just to get into a damn match. at least in my experience

 

[DrDogg]

I hope, in the least, that they will just show your w/l record. with certain win exp going towards icons and whatnot. i think it would be quite foolish if they were to allow any sort of boosters like some COD ********. i dont think many people will rage quit just for a loss on their record, if so, they need to get a life.

People rage quit in player matches that don't count for anything. You're never going to get around the rage quitting. All we can hope is that NRS has a way to punish those who rage quit.

I'd love to see a system like MvC3. If your disconnect percentage gets to a certain point, you can only play against other people with an equally high disconnect percentage. You're not allowed back in the normal populace until your disconnect percentage drops.

Beyond that, I don't care much about online ranking. It's never an accurate display of skill. I'd much rather NRS use a system in which the ranking is determined by the players. So basically, you enter a player match (there are no ranking matches) and you can rate the people playing on a scale of 1-10 or something. You can only rate each person once (to avoid boosting), but you can change your rating of that person once a month (in case they've gotten better... or worse).

You'd still get some minor boosting, and you'd have people giving out low ratings just because they lost, but it would still be a much better system than anything fighting games use these days. Plus, NRS already stated that you can make comments and rate players during matches, they would just need to tie it into the official ranking system.

 

[blackice87]

Actually the ranking system in SSF4 is very accurate.

A people based ranking system will get the shit abused out of it.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCircus]

As cheesy as some of you think the traditional ranking system is for fighting games. It works better than you think. There will always be booster in ANY online ranking system. Whether its hard to do or not. People will find a way. I remember the drama in the Tekken community for Xbox when people realized that 3 people in the top 10 were the same exact person with multiple Xboxs. But thankfully its not as common as you think.

In most ranking systems for fighting games you don't get more points if you beat someone grossly over your level. Instead you get the most points possible online if you beat someone exactly at your level or as close to your level as possible. This makes it so it's considerably harder for someone to boost. If they made a new account they'd get practically no points from beating the new account or vise versa. You have to also realize that FINDING exactly who you want to fight on ranking matchmaking is very difficult if your trying to find an exact person. The only reason it worked in Tekken is that you could choose your own servers. So people would just choose the most deserted servers and find each other. Even though it chooses a random opponent out of the server for you and you can't see who is in the server. If you planned beforehand to meet in a really deserted server you'd most likely find each other eventually. If it wasn't for this small flaw, it would be near impossible to boost on Tekken online. So in MK they should make it so this option isn't possible. And the game ALWAYS randomizes out of all the possible people to fight(with decent connection speed). It wouldn't be too hard to do. Really.

As for rage quitters, they will always exist. But honestly if you are a good player in a fighting game they really are just a slight annoyance. They are not going to matter. If they are rage quitting odds are they aren't very good. And if you need to win people around your level to win, then odds are they won't. I wouldn't worry so much about them.

It'd also be a cool idea to do what COD: Black Ops does with their ranking system to prevent boosters. They completely reset their leaderboards every single month. So the leaderboard never stays the same. Boosters don't bother to stay on top every single month because its just silly. So people who are honestly good always end up on top. This has never been done in a fighting game but it's a nice idea. I doubt they will do it though. Doesn't seem right for a fighting game to have this kind of system. There would be ranks, of course. And you could see if someone is a higher rank than you just by looking at an emblem they have or something, but in the leaderboards you might have someone lower rank as the #1 slot because of the "new leaderboard every month" thing.
What do you guys think?

 

[nuth1nmuch]

Actually the ranking system in SSF4 is very accurate.

A people based ranking system will get the shit abused out of it.

The ranking system on ssf4 is ok, but it gets abused a lot on rank matches. However, I'm unsure if it is even possible to prevent boosting.

I've recieved too many insults on rank matches for ridiculous reasons so I stopped ranking up entirely, no matter how great the system will turn out in mk, there will always be a detestable faction of players.

 

[DrDogg]

Actually the ranking system in SSF4 is very accurate.

A people based ranking system will get the shit abused out of it.

Did you even read my post? The only way to abuse the system I proposed to the level you're implying would be to have thousands of friends who rate you the way you want to be rated. That's not going to happen.

After a few weeks, everyone who plays regularly would have thousands of ratings. If 50 of their friends give them a bogus rating, it won't have an impact.

 

[DeadDogsEye]

+ rep, thanks for input
I agree with your opinion of rage quitting, it just bugs the hell out of me.
I would actually just as well be satisfied if they come up with a strong, smooth and steady server. The rankings system comes second after that but considering what they have promised, that shouldn't be a problem. We haven't even really discovered what all the online modes will be, so im sure that for each separate mode there will be a different individual rank. But a SF4 system would make the most sense, but i didnt necessarily like the grading.

 

[nuth1nmuch]

DrDogg has good ideas, even if we cant stop all the rage quitting, punishments like those will definitely make them reconsider trying.

Circus, I didn't even know that about Black ops, its a great idea.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCircus]

People rage quit in player matches that don't count for anything. You're never going to get around the rage quitting. All we can hope is that NRS has a way to punish those who rage quit.

I'd love to see a system like MvC3. If your disconnect percentage gets to a certain point, you can only play against other people with an equally high disconnect percentage. You're not allowed back in the normal populace until your disconnect percentage drops.

Beyond that, I don't care much about online ranking. It's never an accurate display of skill. I'd much rather NRS use a system in which the ranking is determined by the players. So basically, you enter a player match (there are no ranking matches) and you can rate the people playing on a scale of 1-10 or something. You can only rate each person once (to avoid boosting), but you can change your rating of that person once a month (in case they've gotten better... or worse).

You'd still get some minor boosting, and you'd have people giving out low ratings just because they lost, but it would still be a much better system than anything fighting games use these days. Plus, NRS already stated that you can make comments and rate players during matches, they would just need to tie it into the official ranking system.

On PS3 there is no limit to the amount of accounts you could make for free. I have 2 accounts for COD for PS3 just for fun. This system would be cause crazy amounts of boosting on the PS3 network. It'd be all too easy. Even if they implemented a "the higher level you are the more credible your rating it for a person" system it still would be super abuseable because people just rank up tons of different accounts themselves then use those accounts to boost their other accounts even more.

The other flaw is that a considerable amount of people in fighting games fight with a ridiculous honor code. Like "Dude I'm rating you down because you grab alot" or "You just win because you do that" or "You just run away the whole match". Many people are mature about fighting games, but in essence fighting games at high level play is all about frustrating your opponent and doing everything it takes to win. It'd create WAY too much drama to have players themselves choose who gets ranked up. Sure the good players will rise above. But I just have a vision in my head of me playing a whole day straight of MK online and actually lowering in rank more than gaining because I ran into more crybabies than legit players. I just 100% don't dig it. I'd stick with my idea. It's very hard to abuse.

The problem with SSF4's ranking system is that you could physically SEE who you are choosing to fight next. That is crazy flawed. It screams for people to boost with one another. Tekken's blind pick is a great idea. It just shows you the connection speed that you will be fighting against, not the name of the player. So if done correctly unlike Tekken's system where you could choose your own regional servers, this would be the best idea. In Tekken's system the ONLY way people boosted was by choosing the deserted servers at an odd time of the time and randomly getting picked with the person they want to get picked with out of good odds. Having this blind pick system plus the fact that you can't choose your own servers will make boosting very very very difficult.

 

[blackice87]

Did you even read my post? The only way to abuse the system I proposed to the level you're implying would be to have thousands of friends who rate you the way you want to be rated. That's not going to happen.

After a few weeks, everyone who plays regularly would have thousands of ratings. If 50 of their friends give them a bogus rating, it won't have an impact.

My mistake, I skimmed through your original post.

 

[DeadDogsEye]

Good point, circus. The idea of ranking someone that you just played against has so many holes in it that it might not make me want to play online any more. If it were just a gradual process of same level match making and penalties for rage quitting, this could be a very successful experience, they definitely should not get too fancy with it. I would love f when finding a game it just said, "connected to player" and then it took you straight to character select and then FIGHT! with the choice of rematch afterwards

 

[NothingRhymesWithCircus]

Good point, circus. The idea of ranking someone that you just played against has so many holes in it that it might not make me want to play online any more. If it were just a gradual process of same level match making and penalties for rage quitting, this could be a very successful experience, they definitely should not get too fancy with it. I would love f when finding a game it just said, "connected to player" and then it took you straight to character select and then FIGHT! with the choice of rematch afterwards

Exactly. This.
Nothing fancy. Just good connection matchmaking with a random person. It'd be near impossible to abuse a system like this.
And yea, of course a penalty to rage quitters. I think the disconnects system that MvC3 has where they make it so you could only fight other disconnecters until your disconnect level lowers is a good idea.

 

[DrDogg]

On PS3 there is no limit to the amount of accounts you could make for free. I have 2 accounts for COD for PS3 just for fun. This system would be cause crazy amounts of boosting on the PS3 network. It'd be all too easy. Even if they implemented a "the higher level you are the more credible your rating it for a person" system it still would be super abuseable because people just rank up tons of different accounts themselves then use those accounts to boost their other accounts even more.

The other flaw is that a considerable amount of people in fighting games fight with a ridiculous honor code. Like "Dude I'm rating you down because you grab alot" or "You just win because you do that" or "You just run away the whole match". Many people are mature about fighting games, but in essence fighting games at high level play is all about frustrating your opponent and doing everything it takes to win. It'd create WAY too much drama to have players themselves choose who gets ranked up. Sure the good players will rise above. But I just have a vision in my head of me playing a whole day straight of MK online and actually lowering in rank more than gaining because I ran into more crybabies than legit players. I just 100% don't dig it. I'd stick with my idea. It's very hard to abuse.

The problem with SSF4's ranking system is that you could physically SEE who you are choosing to fight next. That is crazy flawed. It screams for people to boost with one another. Tekken's blind pick is a great idea. It just shows you the connection speed that you will be fighting against, not the name of the player. So if done correctly unlike Tekken's system where you could choose your own regional servers, this would be the best idea. In Tekken's system the ONLY way people boosted was by choosing the deserted servers at an odd time of the time and randomly getting picked with the person they want to get picked with out of good odds. Having this blind pick system plus the fact that you can't choose your own servers will make boosting very very very difficult.

So you limit the number of times you can be rated per day.

The problem is that there's no way around abusing the system. No matter what system you put in place, people will find a way to abuse it. The best course of action is to find a system that is the least abusable.

In fact, I wouldn't mind a system like what I proposed, that allows me to only look at the rankings my friends have handed out. That way I only see players who my friends have rated and who's rating I trust. So it doesn't matter if JoeScrub created 100 accounts to rate up his buddy. That rating means nothing to me because my friends rated him properly.