Your wishlist for MK10

Commander

Well-known member
Those are Subz Ice puddles, that is different from Frost's Ground Freeze move which completely freezes you if you are in it's traveling path, not make you slip. Frost put her own twist on the ice puddle with the ground freeze, thus making her own move.

Frost has the ice puddle move that she got from Subz(which is the slip ice puddle like subz move) but that is not what im talking about.



Your point was that you could use different things with Fire and ice and not make them completely the same. Yes Scorpion;s fire moves are his own and are different from everyone else who uses fire, they are unique and he uses Hellfire as you said(i agree)

but Liu Kang, Shang, and kai(whom you mentioned also as having fire moves) ALL use some form of "Fireball projectile" moves. Their fire moves are similar, how they execute it differs. but they all have "Fireball projectiles".

I did not imply anything, that is what she had in the game; Twin Daggers or "Ice Daggers" as they called it, which is similar to a pair of Sai (mileena's weapons)

Skarlet did not throw "daggers", she threw small 'kunai' knives(weapons of NINJAs might I add...). There is a difference between a dagger and a kunai knife. Know your weapons buddy...

They gave Bo Rai Cho a reason not to have Liu;s moves...because he was too fat and outta shape to do them. lol

I agree with Kano and Jarek though.

Kenshi only had two moves(3 at best: but off hand: the TK ground slam and the TK toss) that were Ermac rip offs, everything else was OG for Kenshi. So IMO, they were different, plus it is only natural for the student to take a few things from the teacher. As the case is for these two, subz and frost, and most likely Cho and Kang but cho is too fat now to do any of the moves he taught his pupils. lol

It's not different.
Sub-Zero's Ice Puddle / Ground Ice move was originally intended to be used how NRS put it in MK9, which freezes, but due to the memory limitations they didn't do it back then.
So, yes, they took Sub-Zero's move and gave it to Frost.

Ground_ice_2.jpg

Regardless of whether Frost put her own twist on the Ice Puddle / Ground Freeze or not, it it one of Sub-Zero's signature special moves.
You don't see anyone else with Liu Kang's horizontal bicycle kicks, Johnny Cage's nut punch, Scorpion's spear or Shang Tsung's soul steal, right?
Because those moves are signature to that character.
Frost was nothing more than a cut-and-paste character, back in the day, and if she's in MK10, I hope she gets a TOTAL overhaul.

My point was that the same way that they applied different fire moves to different characters, they could do the same for Frost with ice.
She can be a great character in MK10, IF she doesn't copy Sub-Zero.
Thus far, NRS has yet to prove that she's a good character to me.

Exactly my point.
The moves have similar qualities to them, but they are not copy-paste.

You implied that I was saying for Frost to throw them at the same time, like Mileena does.
I was simply saying that she could have thrown them like Skartel did, in similar fashion, but not the same way.

If Skarlet doesn't throw daggers, then why the hell is that special move called "Dagger Toss" in her moves list?
I know my weapons, buddy.
Learn the Mortal Kombat move names before you attempt to correct me on something that I'm not wrong about.
Go look up Skarlet's move list in MK9, and come back to me on that. ;)

Bo Rai Cho not having Liu Kang's moves because he's fat, doesn't make sense in a world where monsters, creatues, magic, 1,000-year old beings and sorcerers exist.
Bo rai cho not having Liu Kang's moves (or vice versa) is a decision by NRS, which is my point.
The same could have been done for Frost, to make her different.
Bo Rai Cho and Liu Kang not sharing moves has NOTHING to do with him being fat.
I've seen fat people that are in shape (health-wise) do lots of stuff that thinner people can't do.

Kano & Jarek = Sub-Zero and Frost to a certain degree.
While Jarek copied Kano to an extreme degree (even his fatality in MK4), Frost copies Sub-Zero's moves.

What you're saying in that last paragraph is contradictory.
Kenshi having ripped-off Ermac's moves makes him a rip-off character, and unoriginal, as does Frost and Jarek.
The only thing that was "original" about Kenshi, back in the day, was that he was blind.
MK9 changed that up for him, which is the point of this discussion.
If MK10 Frost gets a total make-over, I'm 100% open to that idea, and as much as I hated her before, NRS may be able to change my mind about her, this time around.
She has the possibility to be a GREAT character, if NRS can give her the proper revamp.
As for Cho teaching Liu Kang the moves but being too fat to do them himself, how does that make any sense?
In order for Liu Kang to do them, Bo Rai Cho had to teach him the moves at one point and be able to do them himself.
 
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Taj Gill

Moderator
I just don't like complete clones of characters, which is what Frost is to Sub-Zero. Why not make a female Lin Kuei with different abilities?

I mean, look at Sektor, Cyrax and Smoke. All Lin Kuei, different abilities.
 
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BBBLP

Robot Rock
This is why MK can't make new characters. It's the god damned fans.


They all whine about a character sharing similar moves, which almost EVERY Fighting game has in some fashion. SF Shotos, Tekken's WGF's, Marvel 1 had Red Venom/Gold War, Marvel 2 had Shotos, Marvel 3 has Taskmaster, Smash has Fox n Falco, Darkstalkers has the sisters, King of Fighters Kyo & Iori and the list goes on.



But MK can't have any characters with the same moves, because the fans will whine and cry about the 'lack of creativity' ignoring both story and viability. NRS for one game, just needs to tell it's fans to blow them and let some characters have duplicate moves with different properties. Anybody who calls Frost 'Sub Zero with tits' should probably just put down the game all together. Especially ever since Injustice came out and we saw what they could do with Killer Frost? Slide is combo starter? Freeze move is a grapple? Just stop son
 
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Taj Gill

Moderator
This is why MK can't make new characters. It's the god damned fans.


They all whine about a character sharing similar moves, which almost EVERY Fighting game has in some fashion. SF Shotos, Tekken's WGF's, Marvel 1 had Red Venom/Gold War, Marvel 2 had Shotos, Marvel 3 has Taskmaster, Smash has Fox n Falco, Darkstalkers has the sisters, King of Fighters Kyo & Iori and the list goes on.



But MK can't have any characters with the same moves, because the fans will whine and cry about the 'lack of creativity' ignoring both story and viability. NRS for one game, just needs to tell it's fans to blow them and let some characters have duplicate moves with different properties. Anybody who calls Frost 'Sub Zero with tits' should probably just put down the game all together. Especially ever since Injustice came out and we saw what they could do with Killer Frost? Slide is combo starter? Freeze move is a grapple? Just stop son

As far as I'm concerned, no one cares about shared moves and what not, with different properties as you said, but it's kinda hard comparing Ryu and Ken/King and Armor King to Sub-Zero and Frost. This is considering that the story behind Ryu and Ken is that they both trained from the same masters, Armor King and King are a mentor/apprentice relationship between wrestlers, so it's kinda hard to not have the same moveset even though they don't. Frost comes into the MK series 5 games into the series, whereas Ryu/Ken and King/Armor King started right off the bat. Like I said, I don't care if they make a female Lin Kuei, just give her different abilities.
 

BBBLP

Robot Rock
I never said King and Armor King. I said WGF's. Which means Armor King and Kazuya. Not a lot in common with those two now is there. How about Heihachi and Angel?

And how are Sub and Frost not compatible for that list of duos you mentioned? They're both students of the same art of Cryomancy.



Why should she need different abilities if she has a different set of normals? She isn't even a clone! That's what bugs the hell out of me. Dude's call her a clone without even knowing what a true clone is. Play Smash or Street Fighter. She has 2 special moves that kinda look the same and some people get up in arms about it. You (general you) should thank your lucky stars that she isn't throwing the same Sumo slaps as Sub is.




Forgot to say earlier too, good to see you back Taj
 

Commander

Well-known member
I just don't like complete clones of characters, which is what Frost is to Sub-Zero. Why not make a female Lin Kuei with different abilities?

I mean, look at Sektor, Cyrax and Smoke. All Lin Kuei, different abilities.

Thank you, Taj.
Someone understands what I'm getting at.

Like I said, I don't care if they make a female Lin Kuei, just give her different abilities.

Same here.
I fine with her having different ice abilities or different abilities altogether, since she came from the same cyromancer clan, just not the same moves.

Kabal and Kano are both from the Black Dragon and have completely different movesets.
 

BBBLP

Robot Rock
803616.gif





MK can't evolve until it's fans do.
 

Commander

Well-known member
Asking for a character with different abilities and not to have the same copied moves IS being a better fan and having an open mind.
Asking for the same regurgitated Frost that we got back in the Deadly Alliance thru Armageddon days seems pretty close minded.
I have accepted that Sub-Zero might be a damn cyborg metal freezer from here on out.
Why can't anyone else accept Frost changing for the better in MK10?
Seems pretty close-minded to me.
 

BBBLP

Robot Rock
I'm close minded?
Why? Because I see potential in a character that shares the same moves? Because I actually understand that normals are just important as special moves? You're open minded because you can't see past the move list screen? Because special moves are all that matter and the fact that her specials aren't even the same as his?

Wherever you got your logic from, I really hope you have a receipt for it.
 

iViTal

Active member
What about comparing CSZ to Human Sub-Zero? Both of them have the same Iceball and the same slide, but no ones calling CSZ a Sub-Zero with Robot parts.

So why can't Frost have some of the same things, It's not hurting anything gameplay-wise and I think it's more logical for them to have a few of the same moves because like Low said they're practicing the same art of Cryomancy.

But that's just how I feel about it, I never cared about aesthetics in Fighting games.
 

Taj Gill

Moderator
Thanks lp, good to see you too.

Obviously all characters are gonna have relatively the same punches and kicks, but look at everyone up in arms about kenshi and ermac in MK:D/MK:A. Essentially the same SPECIAL MOVES. NRS said they wanted to give their characters more diversity (ex. Smoke losing the spear), and Kenshi focusing more on his Katana, so I don't see why they cannot do the same for Frost. Maybe make her freezing ability secondary.

What about comparing CSZ to Human Sub-Zero? Both of them have the same Iceball and the same slide, but no ones calling CSZ a Sub-Zero with Robot parts.

So why can't Frost have some of the same things, It's not hurting anything gameplay-wise and I think it's more logical for them to have a few of the same moves because like Low said they're practicing the same art of Cryomancy.

But that's just how I feel about it, I never cared about aesthetics in Fighting games.

Dude, CSZ and SZ are the exact same character, obviously they're gonna have the same moves, just like how both Cyber Smoke and Smoke had a spear.

The thing is though, why does there have to be a female clone of SUB ZERO, he's unique because he can freeze. Scorpion is unique because of his Spear, I don't see cries for a female GET OVER HERE!
 

BBBLP

Robot Rock
They shouldn't have to do that though. Completely rework a character because their specials are similar. Because you want to know what happens when they do that? Dairou happens. Where you have a badass Chinese assassin shooting fireballs out of his fukking feet because fans wouldn't be able to accept another character who maybe did something similar to a different character.
 

Gouki

New member
It's not different.
Sub-Zero's Ice Puddle / Ground Ice move was originally intended to be used how NRS put it in MK9, which freezes, but due to the memory limitations they didn't do it back then.
So, yes, they took Sub-Zero's move and gave it to Frost.

View attachment 5537

Regardless of whether Frost put her own twist on the Ice Puddle / Ground Freeze or not, it it one of Sub-Zero's signature special moves.
You don't see anyone else with Liu Kang's horizontal bicycle kicks, Johnny Cage's nut punch, Scorpion's spear or Shang Tsung's soul steal, right?
Because those moves are signature to that character.
Frost was nothing more than a cut-and-paste character, back in the day, and if she's in MK10, I hope she gets a TOTAL overhaul.

My point was that the same way that they applied different fire moves to different characters, they could do the same for Frost with ice.
She can be a great character in MK10, IF she doesn't copy Sub-Zero.
Thus far, NRS has yet to prove that she's a good character to me.

Exactly my point.
The moves have similar qualities to them, but they are not copy-paste.

You implied that I was saying for Frost to throw them at the same time, like Mileena does.
I was simply saying that she could have thrown them like Skartel did, in similar fashion, but not the same way.

If Skarlet doesn't throw daggers, then why the hell is that special move called "Dagger Toss" in her moves list?
I know my weapons, buddy.
Learn the Mortal Kombat move names before you attempt to correct me on something that I'm not wrong about.
Go look up Skarlet's move list in MK9, and come back to me on that. ;)

Bo Rai Cho not having Liu Kang's moves because he's fat, doesn't make sense in a world where monsters, creatues, magic, 1,000-year old beings and sorcerers exist.
Bo rai cho not having Liu Kang's moves (or vice versa) is a decision by NRS, which is my point.
The same could have been done for Frost, to make her different.
Bo Rai Cho and Liu Kang not sharing moves has NOTHING to do with him being fat.
I've seen fat people that are in shape (health-wise) do lots of stuff that thinner people can't do.

Kano & Jarek = Sub-Zero and Frost to a certain degree.
While Jarek copied Kano to an extreme degree (even his fatality in MK4), Frost copies Sub-Zero's moves.

What you're saying in that last paragraph is contradictory.
Kenshi having ripped-off Ermac's moves makes him a rip-off character, and unoriginal, as does Frost and Jarek.
The only thing that was "original" about Kenshi, back in the day, was that he was blind.
MK9 changed that up for him, which is the point of this discussion.
If MK10 Frost gets a total make-over, I'm 100% open to that idea, and as much as I hated her before, NRS may be able to change my mind about her, this time around.
She has the possibility to be a GREAT character, if NRS can give her the proper revamp.
As for Cho teaching Liu Kang the moves but being too fat to do them himself, how does that make any sense?
In order for Liu Kang to do them, Bo Rai Cho had to teach him the moves at one point and be able to do them himself.


1) Sub Zero was not SHOWN doing EXACTLY what Frost does in MK:DA, so it is FROST's Move. MK9 does not count because that was AFTER frost(and her moves) was debuted. Does not matter who's move ws inthe works, what matters is the FINAL product and in the final product, Frost got the move as her own. So it IS hers. You are not going to persuade me otherwise so stop trying.

2)OHHHH, so NRS said that they are "daggers", Oh okay, then the case is closed... Lol

What Skarlet throws are small Kunai knives.

mortal-kombat-deception-unchained-20060224065134858.jpgDAGGERS Midway called them...

8154.skarlet_2D00_mortal_2D00_kombat_2D00_2011_2D00_picture_5F00_0.jpg You see those small knives on her thigh? those are small KUNAI knives... you see the size difference between those and frost's daggers? Those kunai are not big enough to be considered "daggers". If they were alittle bigger, yea they could be considered kunai daggers, but they are too small to be classified as 'daggers'.

NRS name moves and weapons as such for dramatic purposes.


3) Kenshi took 2 fukkin moves from ermac, but everything else is OG. You probably think kenshi has all ermacs moves because you were only using ermac's moves from kenshi move list.

4) It probably does have something to do with it. Most of the large characters in MK cannot do flips, or other acrobatics that the skinnier people can. Bo rai cho would probably joke about that himself that he is too fat to do a bicycle kick anymore. (which all of this bo rai chi and liu kang subject is for jokes, shits and giggles, BTW.)


DAGGERS...
 

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Commander

Well-known member
I'm close minded?
Why? Because I see potential in a character that shares the same moves? Because I actually understand that normals are just important as special moves? You're open minded because you can't see past the move list screen? Because special moves are all that matter and the fact that her specials aren't even the same as his?

First off, I never said YOU were close minded, hence why I didn't quote YOU.
People who deny that Frost has copy-cat moves because their infatuation for the character blinds them to it, are close-minded.
If you are one of those people, then YES it was aimed at you.
If you're not, then it wasn't aimed at you.
Stop being defensive.
I'm not attacking YOU.
Obviously, normal moves like kicks, punches and uppercuts are bound to be the same for lots of characters, not just Lin Kuei, but that wasn't what was being discussed.
I can see past the move list screen, but why can't people accept change for Frost?
Frost isn't a replacement for Sub-Zero, she should just be her own character.
Also, is ICE the only power that the Lin Kuei have?
Last time I checked, Smoke, Cyrax and Sektor were also Lin Kuei with different abilities.


What about comparing CSZ to Human Sub-Zero? Both of them have the same Iceball and the same slide, but no ones calling CSZ a Sub-Zero with Robot parts.

So why can't Frost have some of the same things, It's not hurting anything gameplay-wise and I think it's more logical for them to have a few of the same moves because like Low said they're practicing the same art of Cryomancy.


Taj Gill said:
Dude, CSZ and SZ are the exact same character, obviously they're gonna have the same moves, just like how both Cyber Smoke and Smoke had a spear.

The thing is though, why does there have to be a female clone of SUB ZERO, he's unique because he can freeze. Scorpion is unique because of his Spear, I don't see cries for a female GET OVER HERE!

Exactly.
Human SZ and CSZ can't be compared because they ARE the same character, the same as Human Cyrax and Human Sektor.
Some of their moves are bound to change when they are robots, but they are the SAME character.
Frost=/=SZ
They aren't the same character.




1) Sub Zero was not SHOWN doing EXACTLY what Frost does in MK:DA, so it is FROST's Move. MK9 does not count because that was AFTER frost(and her moves) was debuted. Does not matter who's move ws inthe works, what matters is the FINAL product and in the final product, Frost got the move as her own. So it IS hers. You are not going to persuade me otherwise so stop trying.

2)OHHHH, so NRS said that they are "daggers", Oh okay, then the case is closed... Lol

What Skarlet throws are small Kunai knives.

View attachment 5540DAGGERS Midway called them...

View attachment 5539 You see those small knives on her thigh? those are small KUNAI knives... you see the size difference between those and frost's daggers? Those kunai are not big enough to be considered "daggers". If they were alittle bigger, yea they could be considered kunai daggers, but they are too small to be classified as 'daggers'.

NRS name moves and weapons as such for dramatic purposes.


3) Kenshi took 2 fukkin moves from ermac, but everything else is OG. You probably think kenshi has all ermacs moves because you were only using ermac's moves from kenshi move list.

4) It probably does have something to do with it. Most of the large characters in MK cannot do flips, or other acrobatics that the skinnier people can. Bo rai cho would probably joke about that himself that he is too fat to do a bicycle kick anymore. (which all of this bo rai chi and liu kang subject is for jokes, shits and giggles, BTW.)


DAGGERS...


1) Sub-Zero is doing the same exact move by freezing the opponent's legs in MK9, and the move was his first, it was called the Ice Puddle in MKII.
They basically combined his Ice Ball move and Ice Puddle move into 1 and gave it to her, and that's NOT original.
It's copy-paste.
MK9 is relevant because I'm discussing how Frost can be different in MK10.
If you're stuck in your MK1 - UMK3 little world, then that's YOUR problem.

2) NRS called the move a dagger toss, and even though they are kunai, they are kunai daggers.
I'm sure that NRS does a ton of research before naming certain weapons in an MK game.
Daggers come in different sizes.

3) Kenshi had lots of the same singature / special telekinetic moves that Ermac had, prior to MK9.
You're dodging the subject at hand by assuming normal moves like punches and kicks into this, when that is not what I am discussing.

4) Being fat has NOTHING to do with it.
E-Honda did flips and slams in SFII and he was fat too.
Has nothing to do with it.
 
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Gouki

New member
So why can't Frost have some of the same things, It's not hurting anything gameplay-wise and I think it's more logical for them to have a few of the same moves because like Low said they're practicing the same art of Cryomancy.

But that's just how I feel about it, I never cared about aesthetics in Fighting games.

Exactly how I feel on it as well
 

muhammad

BANALITY
Speak for yourself... A female Scorpion would be the shit! I could picture it now.
It would be great if scorpion's wife was resurrected into a "female scorpion".
Lol what's she gonna do, reveal a skull as her head too like scorpion. And use a spear and say "get over here baby". Lol Frost (female subzero)> female scorpion
 

Commander

Well-known member
If you read what I quoted you would see that I erased the part about SZ and CSZ because i agree with you on that.
I just quoted his frost section...

this is what im talking about...


He was comparing CSZ (1st part of his quote) with Frost (2nd part of his quote which you quoted), which is why I said that.
 
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