The Lazyiness of MK9's Fatalities and more...

Adjun

New member
Laziness comes in the form of recycling animations. All of the fatalities shown so far have consisted of dismembering the opponent. Here is a diagram showing the slice points on the characters...
5322436081_a5676e8922_b.jpg


Back in the day the MK team recycled animations and used palette swaps to conserve memory space since they only had very little space to work with on the arcade machines. But now with the PS3 having the enormous bluray format and x-box using DL DVDs this should not be the go-to method of creation with MK9. Each and every Fatality COULD look distinct, individual, and wholly unique. Given that this is not the case, I deem them somewhat lazy when creating them. Prime examples of this so far are....

- Cyrax's Net Fatality - The character is hit by a net that consists of approx. 264 squares and yet falls into the predetermined number of pieces as shown in the diagram above.
- All other fatalities - Each character just displays an animation that results in the opponent being dissected in one of the ways shown in the above diagram.
- Reptile's Fatality - This is actually something that REALLY pisses me off in modern day gaming. Clipping is when polygons cross into each other when they shouldn't. Example would be a cape on a character's back that occasionally shows his elbow popping through or his legs popping through when running. The MK team has actually used this taboo mistake in game development to "Shortcut" animating and texturing fatalities in ALL of the 3D MKs. This is shown in Reptile's Fatality in MK9. He reaches into the opponent's abdomen and pulls out his stomach. NOW, using the clipping to show the hand reaching into the opponent is not the bad part. The cheesy part is that the opponent shows NO texture effect on his abdomen showing the damage from thrusting an arm into an opponent's body. Another example of this is the liver crush with Sub-Zero. I can dig reaching into the opponent and then freezing and crushing their liver, they could (in the MK world) live to fight out the rest of the match. HOWEVER, being "Lazy" and not programming a texture effect to show the gaping and bleeding hole that should be left after this is... well... lazy.
Mileena's Face Eat Fatality - She chews the opponents face off yet the face she just ate is not 'eaten'. Another fine example of shortcutting using clipping.

BUT, NRS has plenty of time to tie up these little details and my hopes lie with them that they will not overlook these simple and subtle details. Each new build I see on YouTube shows new animations, moves, combos, and the like. So I have no doubt it is possible they just haven't gotten to this yet.

Deadlines are NEVER a valid excuse to not produce the very best a talented programming team can accomplish!

I would ask fellow MKers what they have cited as things that need improvement or subtleties you all have noticed that could improve the overall realism in MK9.
 
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jarvis653

New member
@Adjun I admit, you present good points. Maybe I'm too optimistic about the development, though I don't understand why you say deadlines shouldn't be a valid reason? IMO, the reason why MK9 is the best we've had since the classics is due to more funding and time to produce it. That's the lifeblood for a game of this scale. Neither of us can be certain that the problems are due to laziness or time constraints though, unless we were actually part of the team to witness it.
 

Oeffinger

BANALITY
At least wait tell the game comes out Adjun before you start complaining about the laziness of the fatalities.
 

COLBYA

New member
that sector fatality was sick and i agree with you guys 100 % they need to step it up and fix these fatalities!!
 

Adjun

New member
At least wait tell the game comes out Adjun before you start complaining about the laziness of the fatalities.

I have been. Since UMK3. I feel that these forums gives us fans an opportunity to express concerns BEFORE the product is finished in hopes that developers might take notes of things we express concern about. Waiting for the disc to be pressed and shipped and THEN coming here to ***** about what is too late to be changed does nothing. It would be like watching someone bake you a cookie and you see them drop cayenne pepper in the dough and waiting to eat it before you say anything.

Replied to from original posts on thread;
http://www.trmk.org/forums/showthread.php/13995-MK9-Cyrax-Net-of-Death-Fatality-Remake/page10000

@Eks
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that NRS will do just that, touch it all up in the final stages. But just in case they decide to ignore the subtleties, I created this post. I also agree that there are some gameplay gripes as well that could be brought up. I'd like to hear what you have to say about this as well.

@truendymion
I would rather NRS push the release date back and deliver and VERY polished Mortal Kombat experience than one that has glaring cracks in its otherwise shiny new armor. Therefore I do not believe release dates should be the end-all excuse for shortcomings in a game of this calibur.
 
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jarvis653

New member
I have been. Since UMK3. I feel that these forums gives us fans an opportunity to express concerns BEFORE the product is finished in hopes that developers might take notes of things we express concern about. Waiting for the disc to be pressed and shipped and THEN coming here to ***** about what is too late to be changed does nothing. It would be like watching someone bake you a cookie and you see them drop cayenne pepper in the dough and waiting to eat it before you say anything.

Not arguing with you about voicing complaints, I think it's a necessary evil. However, this game is supposed to be 'hooked in' (or whatever the phrase), right? So there shouldn't be any problem updating it post-release. Our opinions and their potential for change won't have to end at the 'final product'. Unless I'm wrong about everything remaining modifiable, but I assume all parts of the game can be updated.
 

THEundying27

BANALITY
@Adjun: You've pretty much said what I'm sure has run across everyone's mind at least once. BUt since I cant speak for everyone Ill say this: I was very disappointed with the fatalities that I've seen so far. A lot of it has to do with Ed Boon hyping the fatalities as "OVER THE TOP" when the game was in early development. Clearly they are not. (SO FAR)
I hate to admit this but the "Pirahna" guy is making better fatalities!!! LOL
So far, Kung Lao's fatality is the best we've seen so far, but even that one isnt the first time its been done. I couldve sworn I saw it in a Shaolin Monks Fatality Demonstration Video.
Believe me, there's other things about the game that I can point out but honestly, I'm satisfied with it. It didnt stop me from dropping $150 xTOURNAMENTEDITIONSTYLEx.
This game is the center core of Mortal Kombat that we've all wanted to have for a very long time. So all you people anxiously waiting for Liu Kang and Baraka need to chill out cause they most definately be in it. They made the mistake of leaving out "KEY CHARACTERS" when MK3 came out, which is why UMK3 was made to make up for it. NO WAY IN HELL ARE THEY MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN, there's money to be made.

Anyways I'm done rambling. Yall have a blessed evening!
 

TheWretchedCrow

New member
You're absolutely right! And the things that also makes me most disappointed is the bad detail work. Like when reptile does his x-ray move and shoves out the eyes on johnny cage... and his glasses are still intact. there should be a big hole in the stomach if someone rips out your liver. maybe even some more holes since he just vomited out acid into your gut. oh well... they have three months left to change everything (maybe only two... depending on the deadline.)
 

TioShard

New member
Yeah, not to mention after seeing the internal detail used for the x-ray moves it would be tragic if they didn't use any of that in the fatalities. I guess we will see with characters like Sindel etc and see if she screams your skin off or anything like that as in MK 3.
 
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DCR

TRMK Super Moderator
Yeah, not to mention after seeing the internal detail used for the x-ray moves it would be tragic if they didn't use any of that in the fatalities. I guess we will see with characters like Sindel etc and see if she screams your skin off or anything like that as in MK 3.

That's what gets me about these fatalities. It's no that they're bad, it's that the team took all the painstaking time and effort to model each character's bones, muscles, tendons and organs, yet they're (as of yet) not taking advantage of their own hard work. I'm fine with dismemberments, they're great, but these guys can do so much more with the groundwork they've already laid out.
 

VictorMefer

New member
The deadlines are really important. They've got to focus on gameplay aspects first, and then tweak the minor errors and stuff, like these fatalities. It's not about lazyness. They are really putting a lot of effort to make this game the best MK to date. I think they are still going to fix this kind of stuff. And like they said, most of the fatalities are not finished yet. They're still gonna go back and fix a lot of stuff.
 

UncleRuckus

New member
I agree 100% with this thread. I haven't been wowed by a lot of the fatalities, i stopped watching them however because I want some suprises. So far I like: Scorpion's, Kung Lao's, and Sector's; Hate: Mileena's and Reptiles. I told myself that I won't look at anymore fatalites because it kills some of the joy that you would normally get when you actually finally do a fatality. Back when the old MK's first came out, you didn't see them until you saw someone do them or you did it yourself. In my opinion I think a lot of us have been really spoiled this go round. They are showing us to much of the wrong things in my opinion. I would have rather had a lot more character reveals and character combos/bios vs. fatalites/stages.
 

westtrade

New member
I agree with you 100%
Not ALL Fatalities have to have arm or head dismemberment, for them to be good.
(Yes, I'm looking at you Scorpion, Cyrax, Kitana, Nightwolf)

One of my favorites so far, is this one below, done by PiranhaSoldier on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/user/piranhasoldier#p/c/F7F57E427148D60A/1/jdrrYBNvHNg

It's original.
It also has some of the flesh falling off the bone and intestines falling out, which looks SICK!!!

Thanks for the link! PiranhaSoldier did a great job on the Fatalities. NR should hire him now or buy those Fatalities from him for MK9!
 

Fayte

New member
I agree 100% with the OP the Fatalities r easily the most disappointing aspect of the game they need serious work

Adjun im just curious bro is ur beef with MK9 only with the fatalities or other portions of the game?
 
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DarkSideOfTheMoon

New member
You are a brilliant man for doing this thread. I was honestly going to do a thread similar but you just worded everything perfectly. You are correct there are already predetermined portions of the body that are designated for dismemberment. Regardless how many squares are on cyrax's net when it passes through a body it will only slice through the areas the programers at netherrealm programed it. Maybe there engine isnt sofisticated enough to have X amount of square body parts comming toppling on the floor or something. But what are you gonna do, the idea is there for the net slicing fatality but it isnt realistic enough. Sure, body parts will fly off as seen in the demo, but if netherrealm want to take it a step further smaller sections throughout the characters body should be sliced; not in "chunks" like the arms, legs, torso etc..
 

GrandMasterTRS

New member
I'm sure the new MK will be kickass some fatalities are not 100% kickass but still great.
The MK Team works really hard to bring us a good reboot of the first 3 games.

I'm sure if they would have a bit more time than the game would looks much greater than yet. ^^

PiranhaSoldier is a very talented guy with awesome special effect skills.

This Clip is soooo ultra awesome I can't believe it, just WOW.

Thats how Ermacs fatality should looks in MK9.
 

hyabusha

New member
Damn! GrandmasterTRS, you have some good competition! ^_^

Back to the topic at hand.

I better see some cybernetic innards for Cyrax and Sector during x-ray moves...
 
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TheWretchedCrow

New member
If they have problems with programming... why can't they just make short animated movies for fatalities instead? they don't really need that "only arms legs and torso" thing in the rest of the fights (since you don't rip off the limbs while fighting).
if they made animations like a movie instead, they could make them so crazy that no one ever could complain again. No that's not gonna happen... ;}
 
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