So, Goro is a generic character now?

DeBane

New member
How will they satisfy that much dreaded, cancerous prerequisite of fight-gaming, "balance", with Goro? Will he simply be nerfed to a laughable extent, so as to be a viably competitive character? Or will they leave him boss-OP and restrict his use from ranked play so the scoreboard scrubs don't poo-poo in their panties?

If they go with the former [asinine] option, how will they explain away the character's dweebiness? Will he fight injured? Will he have three (or more) of his appendages cut off? Will he fight blindfolded with Kryptonite cloth?!

If they do end up making Goro some nerfed joke version of his former self, they're better off leaving him out instead of tarnishing the character's reputation. Given he's a ransomed / DLC character, it wouldn't surprise me if they took this invidious route...
 

Gorozilla

New member
Play Mortal Kombat Deception (on the Gamecube) or Mortal Kombat Armageddon and you should have your answer. If they could make heavy hitting characters like Doomsday, Solomon Grundy, and Bane balanced characters in Injustice they can easily do the same with Goro in this game. I don't understand how people fail to comprehend how a big bruise type character could be a balanced playable character in a Mortal Kombat game.

As for tarnishing his character? Mortal Kombat 9 already did that. Not only was he unplayable but he was a complete joke. His attacks were painfully slow and predictable. Not even his armor frames and overpowered X ray could make him threatening. When playing through the Arcade Ladder Goro (and Kintaro) are the easiest opponents to beat. They really can't nerf Goro any harder than they did in MK9.
 

ujustgotcaged

New member
.....scoreboard scrubs...you mean those guys that love to win like myself???Nothing scrubby about me.I hope I run into you.


By reading the paragraph I see you want to have an overpowering Goro and you fear that he won't be over powered which is why you speak with so much vitriol against him being balanced.


"Hereeeee's JOHNNY!!!!"
 

reikoiskahn

New member
The OP must have never played Mortal Kombat Deception or Armageddon. He/she probably became a "fan" when the last game dropped. Otherwise, he/she should know there's really nothing excessively powerful about the Goro of today's times. MK1 and Trilogy? Sure. Recently, though, stuff has changed. Hell, even MK4 Goro was somewhat easy. The only thing people could really complain about in MK:2011 was the fact that he had armor. Even then, his big ass was slow and easy to pick apart.

That being said, when the OP mentioned "scoreboard scrubs," I instantly knew they had no idea what they were talking about but I digress. Like Ujustogtcaged said, I hope I run into you online. Do you rage quit often? Lol
 

Commander

Well-known member
As for tarnishing his character? Mortal Kombat 9 already did that. Not only was he unplayable but he was a complete joke. His attacks were painfully slow and predictable. Not even his armor frames and overpowered X ray could make him threatening. When playing through the Arcade Ladder Goro (and Kintaro) are the easiest opponents to beat. They really can't nerf Goro any harder than they did in MK9.

I agree that Goro was pretty predictable in MK9 and that his moves sucked, but how is him not being playable in MK9 considered "tarnishing" his character?
Goro being an unplayable sub-boss is a nod to MK1, just the same way that Kintaro and Shao Kahn being unplayable are nods to MKII.
Shang Tsung was playable in MKII & MK3, which makes sense as to why he was playable in MK9, but aside from that, I would have also been fine if Shang Tsung was unplayable in MK9.
 

ujustgotcaged

New member
That being said, when the OP mentioned "scoreboard scrubs," I instantly knew they had no idea what they were talking about but I digress. Like Ujustogtcaged said, I hope I run into you online. Do you rage quit often? Lol

Right right lol.im glad you seen where I was coming from.



"Hereeeee's JOHNNY!!!!"
 

Demetrius

New member
The OP must have never played Mortal Kombat Deception or Armageddon. He/she probably became a "fan" when the last game dropped. Otherwise, he/she should know there's really nothing excessively powerful about the Goro of today's times. MK1 and Trilogy? Sure. Recently, though, stuff has changed. Hell, even MK4 Goro was somewhat easy. The only thing people could really complain about in MK:2011 was the fact that he had armor. Even then, his big ass was slow and easy to pick apart.

Whats wrong with coming backt o the series when it returned to it's roots?

Say what you want, but 3D MK, hell 3D fighting games in general, are just bad.
 

Commander

Well-known member
That's so nonsensical.
"I love to have my playable roster restricted because of nostalgia."

I was just saying why I would have been ok with it IF that was the case, but as usual, you cropped out the rest of the post and you love to just cherry-pick certain things and twist my words around.
Had Shang Tsung not been playable in MKII and MK3 as a boss or sub-boss, him being an unplayable sub-boss in MK9 would have been just as fine.
 

Gorozilla

New member
I agree that Goro was pretty predictable in MK9 and that his moves sucked, but how is him not being playable in MK9 considered "tarnishing" his character?
Goro being an unplayable sub-boss is a nod to MK1, just the same way that Kintaro and Shao Kahn being unplayable are nods to MKII.
Shang Tsung was playable in MKII & MK3, which makes sense as to why he was playable in MK9, but aside from that, I would have also been fine if Shang Tsung was unplayable in MK9.

For this I direct you to what BBBLP said:

That's so nonsensical.
"I love to have my playable roster restricted because of nostalgia."

Making the bosses unplayable made no sense in MK9 for a variety of reasons.

Reason #1: The secret characters are all playable while still being hidden characters. Reptile, Smoke, Jade, and Noob Saibot where all unplayable in the games the were secret characters in yet they function as both playable characters and hidden characters in MK9.

Reason #2: The bosses had become playable characters since the original trilogy, reducing them to unplayable again was asinine. Ignoring Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks Goro was playable in every game he appeared in following the original Mortal Kombat. Being nostalgic is fine and all but it makes little sense where the bosses are concerned.

Reason #3: Making the bosses unplayable does not make them more difficult. In fact because they are unplayable they put less effort into making them which results in them being shitty characters. I play as the bosses (Thanks to hacks) and I can confirm that they are very poorly made. They lack true combos (They have two hit combos that are so slow they're opponent can block the second hit after being struck by the first blow), they have weak basic attacks (Shao Kahn's uppercut does 1/3 of a normal kombatant's), and their normal attacks are slow and very punishable if blocked or dodged. They have good special attacks and broken X-rays but even some of their special attacks are poorly made (like Shao Kahn's hammer toss). Shang Tsung is the most difficult boss in the game and that's because he's a normal playable kombatant who receives an upgrade when the AI controls him.
 

Commander

Well-known member
[MENTION=18793]Gorozilla[/MENTION]
For the previous post I'll refer you to post #9.

For the rest:

Reason #1:
All of the characters that you mentioned were playable in either MKII or MK3.
Goro was not.

Reason #2:
MK9 was a reboot of MK1 thru UMK3.

Reason #3:
Making the bosses playable also means not giving them 53% X-Rays, making them throwable, not giving them ridiculous armor (gameplay-wise not aesthetically) and being able to do Fatalities on them.
A lot more goes into them, as a regular character than just making them "weaker."
 

Gorozilla

New member
For the previous post I'll refer you to post #9.

My mistake, I was writing all that while you replied to them.


For the rest:

Reason #1:
All of the characters that you mentioned were playable in either MKII or MK3.
Goro was not.

Quan Chi wasn't either and he had absolutely no role in the old storyline during that period either. While Mortal Kombat 9 was a tribute to the original trilogy they still added plenty of new things as well. Keeping the bosses unplayable to be nostalgic is a rather weak reason.

Reason #2:
MK9 was a reboot of MK1 thru UMK3.

Why no love for MKT?

Reason #3:
Making the bosses playable also means not giving them 53% X-Rays, making them throwable, not giving them ridiculous armor (gameplay-wise not aesthetically) and being able to do Fatalities on them.
A lot more goes into them, as a regular character than just making them "weaker."

. Weaker X-rays? Fine by me. They could just make them do 33% when used by a person and 53% when used by the AI.
. Making them throwable? Sure, let them jump while you're at it. Some Grab special grab attacks work on the bosses already anyways.
. Their armor frames were a piss poor attempt at making them difficult anyways. Remove the armor, speed up their attacks, that's already a step in the right direction. Putting the work into the characters necessary to make them playable would have helped make them more challenging bosses as well.
. Fatalities work just fine on the bosses, they just disabled fatalities on them "cuz you couldn't fatality bosses in the old days". There are many videos on Youtube that prove fatalities work on the bosses fine, and you can actually use Sub Zero's on Goro in the challenge ladder when fighting him and Sheeva.
 

Commander

Well-known member
For the rest:



Quan Chi wasn't either and he had absolutely no role in the old storyline during that period either. While Mortal Kombat 9 was a tribute to the original trilogy they still added plenty of new things as well. Keeping the bosses unplayable to be nostalgic is a rather weak reason.



Why no love for MKT?



. Weaker X-rays? Fine by me. They could just make them do 33% when used by a person and 53% when used by the AI.
. Making them throwable? Sure, let them jump while you're at it. Some Grab special grab attacks work on the bosses already anyways.
. Their armor frames were a piss poor attempt at making them difficult anyways. Remove the armor, speed up their attacks, that's already a step in the right direction. Putting the work into the characters necessary to make them playable would have helped make them more challenging bosses as well.
. Fatalities work just fine on the bosses, they just disabled fatalities on them "cuz you couldn't fatality bosses in the old days". There are many videos on Youtube that prove fatalities work on the bosses fine, and you can actually use Sub Zero's on Goro in the challenge ladder when fighting him and Sheeva.


#1
Quan Chi was retconned into Scorpion and Sub-Zero's story in MKM: Sub-Zero, which takes place before MK1, so there's that.
As for CSZ, they wanted to add something of shock value, so they turned 1 of the 2 most iconic characters into a robot.
That shock value back-fired on them and Sub-Zero is human again in MKX, because people don't want to see Sub-Zero as a robot.

#2
Why no love for MKT?
Don't know.
Ask NRS.
All the alternate UMK3 male and female ninja costumes in MK9 specifically said "UMK3."
Ed Boon even said himself in various E3 interviews that "if you have a favorite character from MK1 thru UMK3, they should be in MK9."
He never mentioned Trilogy, hence why Chameleon wasn't in MK9 either.
For some reason, NRS chose to only cover MK1 thru UMK3.
Plus, it seemed like they were trying to harp on the nostalgia of fighting Goro in Goro's Lair in MK1.
It's the same reason why Shang Tsung was also a sub-boss in MK9.
Fighting Shang Tsung as the boss of MK1 was a huge moment in MK nostalgia.
Thus, they gave AI Shang the ability to morph into various characters to give it that MK1 feel.

#3
You made good points there. :top:
I was just trying to explain why maybe NRS made sub-bosses and bosses unplayable in MK9; for nostalgia factor.
Nostalgia, unfortunately plays a huge factor in MK, as is evident in MKX with all of the MK9 characters coming back.
All of what you described in point #3, though, is probably why they finally made him playable in MKX.
Agreed 100% on that point.
 
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Gorozilla

New member
#1
Quan Chi was retconned into Scorpion and Sub-Zero's story in MKM: Sub-Zero, which takes place before MK1, so there's that.
As for CSZ, they wanted to add something of shock value, so they turned 1 of the 2 most iconic characters into a robot.
That shock value back-fired on them and Sub-Zero is human again in MKX, because people don't want to see Sub-Zero as a robot.

Quan Chi was retconned into their stories but he still played no part in the first three (three and a half?) games. In Mortal Kombat 9 he was EVERYWHERE in the story and really stole the spotlight from more deserving characters. If they were going for nostalgia by making the bosses unplayable, adding Quan Chi in contradicts that reasoning.

As for Cyber Sub Zero he does make sense considering they had Sub Zero get turned into a cyborg rather than smoke, but I am glad they realized the error of their ways and made him human again for MKX.

#2
Why no love for MKT?
Don't know.
Ask NRS.
All the alternate UMK3 male and female ninja costumes in MK9 specifically said "UMK3."
Ed Boon even said himself in various E3 interviews that "if you have a favorite character from MK1 thru UMK3, they should be in MK9."
He never mentioned Trilogy, hence why Chameleon wasn't in MK9 either.
For some reason, NRS chose to only cover MK1 thru UMK3.
Plus, it seemed like they were trying to harp on the nostalgia of fighting Goro in Goro's Lair in MK1.
It's the same reason why Shang Tsung was also a sub-boss in MK9.
Fighting Shang Tsung as the boss of MK1 was a huge moment in MK nostalgia.
Thus, they gave AI Shang the ability to morph into various characters to give it that MK1 feel.

It really is a shame Trilogy doesn't get more recognition. I understand that they were unplayable back then but I still think Nostalgia is a bad reason for making them unplayable. People say it makes them more mysterious, more menacing, and more difficult. But when the boss characters have been around for ages (and playable in multiple games) that takes away from the mystery. When they are slow predictable opponents that makes them neither menacing or difficult. I just find it ironic that by making a Shang Tsung a fully playable character and giving the AI version additional power they made him more difficult than the other bosses.

#3
You made good points there. :top:
I was just trying to explain why maybe NRS made sub-bosses and bosses unplayable in MK9; for nostalgia factor.
Nostalgia, unfortunately plays a huge factor in MK, as is evident in MKX with all of the MK9 characters coming back.
All of what you described in point #3, though, is probably why they finally made him playable in MKX.
Agreed 100% on that point.

Thanks. I do love that Mortal Kombat is such a nostalgic game series, don't get me wrong. Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks and Mortal Kombat 9 are two huge love letters to the classic era of MK and they are two of my favorite games. I just think that letting nostalgia get in the way of making a game better is a bad idea. Like the Secret Characters the Bosses characters have been playable in multiple games following the original three and forcing them back into that role just for the sake of Nostalgia is a bad idea. We didn't have alternate costumes, a story mode, X-rays, or any of the other nice things we have now but I don't see those being pushed aside for the sake of nostalgia.

I'm just glad Goro is playable in MKX again. Now people will see that it is possible to make characters like him, Shao Kahn, and Kintaro playable and balanced. The MK team did it in the past with the 3D games, but some people can't seem to wrap the heads around the idea. I'm also glad because now Goro will be a force to be reckoned with again, but this time not as an unplayable boss, but behind the hands of a skilled player. :biggrin:
 

goro15

New member
There's a 2 page spread on MKX in the latest Game Informer and they talk about a new character scaling technique being used in the game for the larger fighters such as Ferra/Torr and Goro. The designer goes on to say that Goro is huge compared to the normal characters.

Awesome news!! Now I hope he actually stands straight up, like his pose in MK1 and the way he walks towards the screen. Not that sideways, hunched over shit from MK9 which made him a lot smaller. He should be big, just look at how he is compared to Kotal Kahn in the comics ;)
 

ujustgotcaged

New member
Pretty sure I remember one of the Devs saying during mk9 they wanted people to fear the boss characters and for there to be something special about them .

I'm so tired of seeing the word "nostalgia " it's like someone learned a new word and they just want to keep using it to sound smart.

Yes they did do it for nostalgic reasons but they also did it that way because THAT WORKED IN THE PASS.


So many people want them to do things that they did in post MK3 and that's when the franchise started failing .So im glad they are ignoring and giving a lot of the post mk3 guys the shaft .

The only characters I feel deserve another go is Reiko ,Tanya and maybe Fujin because I see that people are passionate about those characters .but pretty much everything else about the 3D era can burn
WHY WOULD YOU TRY TO POLISH UP CRAP?

That's what some of you are asking for NRS to do..polish up some crap that people didn't care about last time and what made them lose money.

D'vorah,Cassie,Kotal,Ferra/toore and Erron black seem much more interesting than all of those Post MK3 new guys .


"Hereeeee's JOHNNY!!!!"
 
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DeBane

New member
As for tarnishing his character? Mortal Kombat 9 already did that. Not only was he unplayable but he was a complete joke. His attacks were painfully slow and predictable. Not even his armor frames and overpowered X ray could make him threatening.
Ah. You must be lay console plebe who never actually 'played' the character; only against the two-move spamming, dumbot script NR scrawled on toilet paper for the character. Try him on PC and see how much of a "joke" he is.

(NB: There's a reason a mod was needed to enable the bosses in MK9 and it wasn't because they were going to be DLC... although I'm sure Boon would have considered that if he hadn't dumped the game so soon after banking his cheques.)

.....scoreboard scrubs...you mean those guys that love to win like myself???Nothing scrubby about me.I hope I run into you.
I don't eat at McDonald's -- sorry.

The OP must have never played Mortal Kombat Deception or Armageddon
Actually, I did. But, not unlike other 'Superman 64' -like games, I didn't spend too much time with those turds either.

That's so nonsensical.
"I love to have my playable roster restricted because of nostalgia."
But, hey! As long as half the roster are generic ninajs / ninja robots, Cage inbreeding progeny or movie cameos, it's all good!

sPwK1l2.gif
 

DeBane

New member
Pretty sure I remember one of the Devs saying during mk9 they wanted people to fear the boss characters and for there to be something special about them .
Yeah. Like the inability to jump and the worst "A.I." (read: two lines of rote pattern script) in the history of fighting games. Unforgettable, indeed.

There's a 2 page spread on MKX in the latest Game Informer and they talk about a new character scaling technique being used in the game for the larger fighters such as Ferra/Torr and Goro. The designer goes on to say that Goro is huge compared to the normal characters.
Should be pure "awesome" seeing Goro doing chip damage with his railway sleeper arms and X-Rays never used in place of breakers for how utterly damage scaled they are...
 
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