Future of MK

Tarkatan Trash

Active member
Well considering most of those sells where refunded on the ps4 store which led to Sony pulling the game from psn ( It just recently got added back in but the damage had already been done) i'm sure Sony charged a hefty fee to cd project red to get their game back on the PlayStation store. My point is people are starting to wise up to these over hyped broken products that get shoved out the door. No company can survive if they only think of the short term. Ps5 and xbox series X / S Games are moving to the $70 base model now. Only a small few drooling idiots are going to pay that much for a game without checking reviews first. Like I've mentioned before cd project red's next Witcher game or whatever is going to be a hard sell for them.
Considering how much was being charged for new 16 bit games in 1996 (and how much that would be today if adjusted for inflation), $70 for a modern game looks like a steal.IMG_20210617_165752.jpg
Screenshot_20210617-165505_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

Misucra

Well-known member
Didn't Cyberpunk sell like 14million units? I doubt they care at this point. CEOs could retire tomorrow and spend money on cocaine with hookers until no tomorrow.

If anything this shows the state of the industry. All you need to do is hype the game up with flashy trailers & graphics. Doesn't matter if it's shallow as piss puddle, or buggier than a dune buggy. Do that correctly and swim in money. The "core audience" will gobble it up and ask for dessert.
True. They received a truckload of cash from Cyberpunk Pre-Orders, but in the long run it is a drop in the water. They lost cash to refunds, they are losing money to lawsuits, they have to pay massive fees and damages to other companies as well. You think only Sony has a bone to pick with CD Projekt? XBOX version is also garbage. Microsoft is sure as hell, not happy about it. Their rep is tarnished for good. And it is a big deal for CD Projekt.

You must understand that their marketing success was one of the kind. We are talking KONY 2012 level of marketing, just with way bigger profits. EVERYONE and their mom was talking about the game. Almost 10 years of build up. Pretty much Video game version of Avegers: Endgame. Massive promises, awesome backstory, huge interest in Cyberpunk genre. Etc. And their last game being titled as a Game of a Decade, boosted hype to insane levels.

EA/Activision would kill for marketing success like that. Even BF2042 hype is nothing compared to the shit Cyberpunk 2077 pulled. But because of that, the fall hurt them even worse. Now everyone knows that they lied, cheated and in short scammed all of the players. Nobody can even defend the game. Some idiots try, but they immediately get shut down.

Not to mention they still have to "fix" the game. How long it will take? A year? 2? That will cost money. All those amazing profits they made, will be spent on fixing the game. Most of the game can't even be "fixed". We were promised "Open World Roleplaying Game", they changed at the last minute RIGHT BEFORE THE LAUNCH to "Open World Action Adventure Game". They sure as hell won't be able to charge for any DLC or Expansions they talked about. Their ONLINE mode idea is gone.

Sure they can just say "Screw it" and be gone. But here is the thing. CEO can't even leave the company right now. If he tries to run away, he will be drowned in lawsuits. So much investment has been made into this game, that shareholders want to see the final product finished. If they don't, they will make CEO pay for it. Long story short. Unless they pull out some insanely amazing content later this year, they are fucked.

Same with NRS/WB. Sure, there will always be people, who will go to buy MK or whatever NRS produces, but they will never reach the height they had with MKX. Not to mention these geniuses shot themselves financially TWICE. MKX PC launch was a technical disaster. Then came shitty support and communication. MKX PC was completely ignored. Even so console players were happy (and they were a majority of playerbase), but then MK11 comes in and they start preaching Politics. That already fractured the remaining fan base, which reduced their total sales numbers and now complete silence and ignorance to ALL MK11 players, is making EVERYONE pissed. Next game won't have THE MOST SUCCESSUL MK launch for sure.
 

lariat

Well-known member
Considering how much was being charged for new 16 bit games in 1996 (and how much that would be today if adjusted for inflation), $70 for a modern game looks like a steal.View attachment 10029
View attachment 10030
I know I'm showing my age here but nobody but the rich kids bought any game back than at full price most people including myself would buy a used copy at a mom and pop shop. In a lot of ways things have stayed the same because most people just wait for a game of the year edition or buy a game when its on a decent sale.
 

Xenon

Well-known member
I'm not even from the USA but I'm sure the wages were different as well. A burger flipper in 1996 did not make the same as a burger flipper in 2k21.

It's also a stupid argument since game dev took far less resources than it does now. Also the audiences were much smaller, so you couldn't just release a shitty buggy game and rake in $300 million.
 

lariat

Well-known member
Well games back than didn't cost 100 million ether. A lot of buggy broken games where released. It just went unchecked because we didn't have the Internet like today. Word of mouth and gaming magazines was the only way to find out if a game was good or bad. Most people rented games at their local movie store so you didn't feel as cheated as today if you got a dud. I miss those days honestly. Sadly streaming and twitch gaming has killed any chance of renting at least in the USA. There's too many PR streaming shills now so during a games first week of release everything is protected from criticism by the publishers. Once they made their money in preorders they'll lift the embargo. We seen this over and over again.
 
Last edited:

Tarkatan Trash

Active member
They were still charging more money for less work, less storage space, and especially a lower resolution (nowadays, it's 1080p and/or 4K; back then, these games were in 240p).
 

Commander

Well-known member
Except we did NOT get Sindel. We got an imposter dressed like her, using her name, and copying her moveset. I hear the wrestling business did something similar on a few occasions in the 90s. Fans were definitely in the right to call bullshit on that in particular.
Under-faker, yeah I remember that.
That was due to a kayfabe that was written in because the real Undertaker was resting up due to a previous Casket Match with Yokozuna.
MK11 Sindel's poorly re-written story is just due to Dom not being able to write that well and ignoring previously established lore.
And that's why I said. NRS dug themselves into that shit. The only reason why they are being bombarded by tons of requests in the first place, is because they encourage it with their behavior. The moment they added Mileena (which was definitely a last second inclusion, due her lazy design), people got encouraged to ask for more. They sell the game to the lowest fucking audience and then cry about toxic fans. Bruh, you guys are the ones that feed them in the first place!!!

The reason why we are in minority is because we don't get shit.
Why would anyone, interested in MK Lore, would want in play the game, if they have nothing to look forward to, but same rehashed chars and "story"?
Why would pros would be looking forward to anything, if they keep getting ignored?

So literally the people that would invest THE MOST time into the game, are ignored. NRS has no one else to blame, but themselves. They created this toxic community and now they get to enjoy it.
Which is why if MK12 is going on the same trajectory, then I'll just wait until the Ultimate Edition is out for $25 with everything included.
I haven't played an online mode in a NRS fighter since MKX, and I honestly don't plan to any time soon.

Ps5 and xbox series X / S Games are moving to the $70 base model now. Only a small few drooling idiots are going to pay that much for a game without checking reviews first. Like I've mentioned before cd project red's next Witcher game or whatever is going to be a hard sell for them.
The only game series that I'd be a drooling like an idiot over these days is Dishonored.
Even then, now that MS bought out Zenimax, if a Dishonored 3 ever came out it would probably be a day 1 GamePass game, just like with Redfall.
Even though neither MS or Sony have convinced me yet to get either a PS5 or X|S yet, I'll probably eventually end up going with a series S.
 
Last edited:

Commander

Well-known member
They were still charging more money for less work, less storage space, and especially a lower resolution (nowadays, it's 1080p and/or 4K; back then, these games were in 240p).
For the most part they were complete games in those times, though.
Today it's $60~$70 a game and then they pile on DLC, so the total price of the game (if bought new) with all DLC can go upwards of $120+.
 

Tarkatan Trash

Active member
Under-faker, yeah I remember that.
That was due to a kayfabe that was written in because the real Undertaker was resting up due to a previous Casket Match with Yokozuna.
MK11 Sindel's poorly re-written story is just due to Dom not being able to write that well and ignoring previously established lore.
The wrestling business did that with the Razor Ramon, Diesel, and Sting characters during that general timeframe as well. Dom must have watched archived 90s footage on WWE Network and saw these fakes and thought, "wow, this is a great idea! Why don't I just copy what Vince and Eric were doing in the 90s over to Mortal Kombat? Now which fan favorite should I do this with? Oh yeah, Sindel! She's on the DLC schedule anyway!"

See, THIS is why you don't hand the pen over to rookies! They're more qualified to be writing fan fiction than they are to be writing official storylines.
 

Commander

Well-known member
The wrestling business did that with the Razor Ramon, Diesel, and Sting characters during that general timeframe as well. Dom must have watched archived 90s footage on WWE Network and saw these fakes and thought, "wow, this is a great idea! Why don't I just copy what Vince and Eric were doing in the 90s over to Mortal Kombat? Now which fan favorite should I do this with? Oh yeah, Sindel! She's on the DLC schedule anyway!"
It wasn't just Sindel but also main roster characters like Skarlet and Kabal. I mean, for fucks' sake, Skarlet was just 2 GAMES ago and they can't even keep that origin story straight? 🙄
See, THIS is why you don't hand the pen over to rookies! They're more qualified to be writing fan fiction than they are to be writing official storylines.
For once we agree on this.
I really hope that Vogel at least goes back to helping with writing, because with the writing in Dom's hands the future looks bleak for the franchise.
At the very least they should also hire Tobias back on as a story consultant.
 

Tarkatan Trash

Active member
It wasn't just Sindel but also main roster characters like Skarlet and Kabal. I mean, for fucks' sake, Skarlet was just 2 GAMES ago and they can't even keep that origin story straight? 🙄

For once we agree on this.
I really hope that Vogel at least goes back to helping with writing, because with the writing in Dom's hands the future looks bleak for the franchise.
At the very least they should also hire Tobias back on as a story consultant.
They should hire Tobias back for story purposes, period. Preferably with him and Vogel as the main story writers.

As for Kabal, I'll give them a pass on him, because he's been going back and forth between good guy and bad guy from the start.

And as for your point about game prices, that $120 price you mentioned that includes DLC is actually what $70 in 1996 money would cost today if adjusted for inflation, so my point of paying that price for less content and a 240p resolution still stands.
 

Commander

Well-known member
They should hire Tobias back for story purposes, period. Preferably with him and Vogel as the main story writers.

As for Kabal, I'll give them a pass on him, because he's been going back and forth between good guy and bad guy from the start.

And as for your point about game prices, that $120 price you mentioned that includes DLC is actually what $70 in 1996 money would cost today if adjusted for inflation, so my point of paying that price for less content and a 240p resolution still stands.

They may not be able to do that as Tobias is working for another company, currently, which is why I mentioned at the very least to have him be a story consultant.

I'm not giving Dom a pass on anything MK11 story-wise. The ONLY thing (imo) which was pretty decent and seemed to have more of Kittelsen's influence to it from the comics was Aftermath. Aside from that, no.

My point with the $120 price tag in today's prices was that devs will go and tell gamers that a game is "complete" and sell it to you for $60~$70, when it in fact is NOT complete and a bunch of content is later added to it, and then they re-sell it again.
MK3 / UMK3 / Trilogy and MK4 / GOLD people like to debate as to whether they're updates or additions, but MK1, MKII, Deadly Alliance, Deception and Armageddon were complete games at their time of release.
I wasn't negating / debating your point about inflation accounting for it, in fact I agree, but just that back in those days more games were considered complete and they didn't have constant editions coming out. These days it's "get this unfinished game" in which we'll sell you back things that should have been in from the start. Hell, aren't you always going on about how Stage Fatalities should be in ever single game? Well, WB / NRS didn't add them in until the Aftermath update.

I mean, Street Fighter IV has how many goddamn editions? That question was rhetorical: it's 4 additional ones apart from plain SF IV.
Now NRS is heading down the same path with Aftermath and now Ultimate... and I'm pretty sure that if covid didn't screw things up it would be MK11: (insert update name here). SFV was a skeleton game when it launched, as well.
People always love to forget that while SFV has a huge post-launch roster, the main game barely had any SP stuff and the game itself felt incomplete (imo).
 

lariat

Well-known member
The reason they're quiet is because they've moved on to the next game. If they come flat out and say it on social media it would be the death of mk11 and kill any potential sales they might make. It's painfully obvious at this point. They're just waiting for the right time before they start in with their usual mega hype machine. I'm guessing the video game awards this winter.
 

Xenon

Well-known member
That's not what I've meant. This is not a new practice for NRS. MKX also had crap communication, and iirc MK9 as well. But at least MK9 was their first game and Social Media was only getting starting to get really popular.

The point is that they consistently get away with it. Does anyone even remember what Tyler has done as "MK community manager"?
 

Commander

Well-known member
@lariat
The reason that they're probably quiet is because WB has NRS by the balls.
Back when the Nightwolf trailer kept getting delayed Boon said something to the effect of "this is not the way that I would have wanted to do stuff," which seemed really weird (to me) for him to say at the time but it makes sense now.
Meaning, from what it looks like, someone higher up isn't allowing them to discuss stuff.
It's probably part of the reason why he has to be cryptic sometimes.
My bigger confusion is if Tyler is supposed to be the community manager, then what does he really do?
If WB really does have NRS by the balls and isn't allowing them to talk with the fans, then why bother creating a position like Tyler's in the first place?
Why not just have him be another tester / programmer and just have Boon or whomever handles the official MK11 Twitter account say stuff?
 
Last edited:

lariat

Well-known member
I'm pretty sure Tylers job is for PR marketing and communication between NRS and the press during interviews. Acting as a representative of the higher ups at WB and NRS to make sure only the information they want you to know gets released. In other words his job is to control what NRS can and can't say (NDA ect,) when asked certain questions but since covid 19 happened he's mostly a desk guy. I wouldn't be surprised if he's doing other jobs outside of NRS until their next game. As far as WB forcing radio silence on NRS is concerned, I don't think WB has Boon/NRS on lockdown. I think it just NRS have nothing else coming up for mk11 but WB doesn't want them saying that for reasons I already stated. I get that it pisses people off but it does make sense from a company's perspective.
 
Last edited:

Misucra

Well-known member
@lariat
The reason that they're probably quiet is because WB has NRS by the balls.
Back when the Nightwolf trailer kept getting delayed Boon said something to the effect of "this is not the way that I would have wanted to do stuff," which seemed really weird (to me) for him to say at the time but it makes sense now.
Meaning, from what it looks like, someone higher up isn't allowing them to discuss stuff.
It's probably part of the reason why he has to be cryptic sometimes.
My bigger confusion is if Tyler is supposed to be the community manager, then what does he really do?
If WB really does have NRS by the balls and isn't allowing them to talk with the fans, then why bother creating a position like Tyler's in the first place?
Why not just have him be another tester / programmer and just have Boon or whomever handles the official MK11 Twitter account say stuff?
Eh. Unlikely. MK isn't the only game that WB Games has. Other studios, communicate just fine. I think it is the zero fucks policy in NRS and that's it.

Does MK11 even look like a game that was made by someone that gives a shit? Other publishers force microtransactions and other shit, but the base game tends to be solid and shows that lots of effort went into it. Here? Both microtransactions and half assed job. Almost 30 years and STILL can't make a fighting game worth shit.
 

Commander

Well-known member
Does MK11 even look like a game that was made by someone that gives a shit?
In the early stages? Yeah, imo, at least lore-wise at 1 point it did seem like they gave a shit and then later somehow the quality trailed off.

Again, imo, the cut content (Aftermath) that was later sold as DLC actually did seem better than the main story that we got with the base game.
Fujin, Shang Tsung, Sheeva and Nightwolf getting some cool story chapters was nice to see, for once.
Shang Tsung also not being some asshole's puppet (Shao Kahn) or side-kick (Quan Chi) was a breath of fresh air (to me).
Sheeva's stuff, specifically, seems to have continued right where Kittlesen left off in the comics, which is why it seems pretty good (imo).
For as much as people generally hate on Sheeva, I did enjoy her comics and Aftermath counterpart storylines.
That said, somewhere in production it seemed that they cut Aftermath out and later decided to re-sell it as DLC.

My bigger issue has always been that from MKX to MK11 Dominic tended to ignore previously established lore, while Kittlesen tried to move the story forward (at least in the comics).
I'm not saying Kittelsen is completely innocent on the MK11 game writing front, but he DID get me to actually give a shit for characters like Scorpion, Takeda, Goro, King Gorbak and Kotal Kahn at least in the comics.
MK11 = Kotal being turned into everyone's punching bag, Goro is mysteriously dead on his throne and Takeda is nowhere to be seen.
There's also absolutely 0 progress for Erron Black and D'Vorah (as cool as they are aesthetically).
Story-wise, Jacqui and Cassie also felt pretty flat (imo). Again, some descendants that they introduced in MKX but did little to pass the torch with them because every fucking game HAS to have all of the 7 MK1 characters and the majority of the MKII characters.
So, as much as I've complained about it before, at the end of the day it doesn't matter because Dominic doesn't seem to give enough of a shit to move these new characters forward into the new era like Tobias and Vogel did back in the day for characters like Quan Chi, Kenshi and some of the other characters from the 3D era that people still do like.
Kittelsen seemed to be the one at least trying to push characters like Havik, Reiko and Daegon into some cool storylines in the comics, but the point is now moot as he no longer works at NRS, so now the next MK game's story falls square on Dominic's shoulders... and that really doesn't give me confidence AT ALL.
 
Last edited:
Top