Choices and Tier Lists

Man Eater

New member
Ok everybody knows that Kung Lao is probably the best character in this game. Let's face it, he has every tool in the game to counter-act and cause any situation.

Then you have Sheeva, who is underestimated but put at the bottom of the tier list.

If you pick Kung Lao and win, does that consider you a noob? I can't think of another word to use but it's like a handicap. You pick the best character in the game and like I said above, has every tool possible. It's like bowling and using a 2 pound ball with bumpers. No matter where you bowl, you are bound to hit a pin or two without straining yourself.

If you pick Sheeva and win, does that make you boss? You use a character that doesn't have a whole lot to work with yet you win. Back to the bowling analogy, it's like picking a ball too heavy for you without the bumpers on.

Any ideas on choosing tier characters just based on tiers?
 
Any ideas on choosing tier characters just based on tiers?

I find some kind of paradox in this quote, that would destroy me if I would be a robot, though I dont think winners with Sheeva are bosses, and winners with Lao are cheaps. Is just the way you win what determinates if you are cheap, average, or boss. A Stomp spamming sheeva will turn you into a cheap bastard and a well played Lao with combos and no spamming will turn you into a great player, and viceversa.
 
Anybody who can win without playing cheaply is a good player, regardless of character. It shows dedication to the game.
 
Anybody who can win without playing cheaply is a good player, regardless of character. It shows dedication to the game.

This^
Few understand this like I do. I put a lot of time and effort getting good techniques down with EVERYONE. It was easier with some, and harder with others *cough*Sheeva*cough*. Sheeva was a pain in the d*ck to get any good with.
 
Tier whoring is very noob-like to me. If you want to pick a character because you like them as a character, then that's fine. But most people who pick characters are just picking them because it's an "easy win" button because of the character being overpowered or just noob-friendly. Almost anyone can win with Kung Lao, he's SUPER OVERPOWERED! He's SS+ tier. I wreck people multiple times in a row but when they lao it up I have a hard time beating them or I lose.

Overpowered: Kung Lao, Raiden.
Noob Friendly: Ermac, Scorpion.
Somewhere in the middle: Reptile (super easy juggles)
 
John Goodman is in the game???? :O

So much warmth from this post.

Wish I could rep, but I can't.
So instead, this:

john-goodman-as-walter-sobchak-in-the-big-lebowski.jpg





On topic: I like Sektor's style. He tends to fair better in the air.
I didn't care if nobody or everybody was going to use him, I decided he would be my main before the game even came out.
 
Anybody who can win without playing cheaply is a good player, regardless of character. It shows dedication to the game.

But what if only throwing ground hats with Kung Lao is enough to win a match? I get sent messages every now and then with the word "spammer" in it. Just beceause the opponent doesnt know how to counter and/or avoid getting hit by ground hats doesnt make me a cheap player. I do what it takes to win, if throwing ground hats is all I need then that's what i'll do.

Same when I use Kitana, not just Kung Lao. I zone and turtle my ass off when I play against some characters that are deadly upclose ie Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, Sonya etc..And no i'm not a cheap player, I just know my matchups.
 
I don't think there's such a thing as "winning cheaply." If you're opponent can't stop something that you're doing, are you going to change your tactic to even the playing field? Hell no. You're going to obliterate your opponent with whatever it is that you're doing until he learns to adjust. Yes, there's winning with style and winning without style...but in the end, winning is winning.

That being said, if you don't like Kung Lao, but you just use him to be a tier-whore, I have no respect for you. If you like Kung Lao because you think he's cool and that's why you use him then more power to you. I personally choose characters that I think are bad ass and that fit my style best...despite what their tier ranking is in the eyes of everyone else. To be honest, I really only like two characters a lot right now and that's Mileena and, more recently, Shang Tsung. Been loooooving Shang Tsung mostly because I haven't seen anyone else ever use him online so it's kind of funny when people aren't sure what I'm going to do with him...plus making people ride wave after wave of unbreakable flame skull combos just kicks so much ass. He's slowly catching up to Mileena as my favourite character in the game.

And now I'm off to test out Kenshi...
 
A good concept, could be :

In order to define tier features that can decide what tier list position every character can be classified :

- Your character, has a good zoning tool ?
- Your character, has good anti-zoning weapons ?
- Your character, has a teleport move, useful ?
- Your character, has a good set of projectiles, or just one type, that travels only in one direction ? How good your character projectile can do in projectiles wars ?
- Your character has default combos that are easy to do, and, can be linked with majority of special moves ?
- How fast your character moves on the screen ?
- How about the mix up game of your character ?
- How about the efficiency of your character's overhead tools ?
- How about the wake up options your character have ? Good ? Bad ? so so ?
- Your character has majority of special moves, punishable, if blocked ?

Give a note of 0-5 for each of these aspects. See the result and compare every character.

Don't know if this system can work and shows to be true. People decide.

XD
 
A good concept, could be :

In order to define tier features that can decide what tier list position every character can be classified :

- Your character, has a good zoning tool ?
- Your character, has good anti-zoning weapons ?
- Your character, has a teleport move, useful ?
- Your character, has a good set of projectiles, or just one type, that travels only in one direction ? How good your character projectile can do in projectiles wars ?
- Your character has default combos that are easy to do, and, can be linked with majority of special moves ?
- How fast your character moves on the screen ?
- How about the mix up game of your character ?
- How about the efficiency of your character's overhead tools ?
- How about the wake up options your character have ? Good ? Bad ? so so ?
- Your character has majority of special moves, punishable, if blocked ?

Give a note of 0-5 for each of these aspects. See the result and compare every character.

Don't know if this system can work and shows to be true. People decide.

XD

Something like this would be the best way to make a true tier list IMO. Get a massive vote on what all the categories should be...then pick a character and vote on all those categories and add them up...that being said, we'd also have to consider all possible match ups with each character as well to truly make a tier list. It's not just enough to come up with categories because I feel that some characters with a lower score would match up very well against some characters with a higher score, so there would need to be a match up analysis on every match up for every character.

It would take a lot of work, but it would be more legitimate than anything else we've seen to date I think. I've said it before, but I'm not a huge tier list person, but it still would be interesting to me to see how it would come out...just out of curiosity more than anything else.
 
If Kung Lao has tools to deal with "most situations", does that not make him balanced?

Hear me out, because I think Jade and Nightwolf have tools to deal with most situations yet I never hear them called "over powered". I also hear people say JC is balanced, but they base this on his good up close game outweighing his terrible long range game. I think Jade and Nightwolf are balanced in the sense they have a good away and close game, but nothing necessarily OP. While Nightwolf and Jade may not be as good in close combat as JC or Kang, or better zoners than SZ or Stryker, they both have other things that can deal with zoners and close range fighters.

Something or a character OP, is a character that has one or two specials/normals that have amazing priority with little to no risk to that character after execution.

But I agree, that tier whores are the worst. I like players based on design, though sometimes I like to gravitate to characters that are considered "shit" in a tier list, almost to prove a point. At the moment my main 3 guys are Jade, Nightwolf and Sheeva.
 
Something or a character OP, is a character that has one or two specials/normals that have amazing priority with little to no risk to that character after execution.

Exactly ..... Kung Lao , OP .... hum , maybe in the beggining , but now, you can see how to defend properly against him :

- KL hat projectile : fearsome ? Nope
- KL hat ground projectile : good ? yeah, but, you can block or jump to avoid, so, not OP
- Kung Lao teleport : punishable if you have good timing execution, using uppercut
- Kung Lao Dive Kick : dangerous move, but, very punishable if blocked .... if you get used to stay alert EVERY singel time a KL player is jumping, so, you can deal with ........

Now, 2 KL weapons that, indeed are deadly, but, not impossible to overcome :

- His Windy Palm combo 1,1,2,1 is devastating to link/cancel into spin, and next, some long and painful 40+ % combos, so, it's a chain combo you must avoid to be caught ......

- His Spin, of course, is terrific amazing good, being a powerful anti-air, wake up attack and combo starter, is very quick and has not explicit animation in order to you figure out when the player will use it, so, obviously, is Kung Lao main weapon, and the one you should put totally focus to avoid, or, pay the price to be crushed hardly .....

So, I think more and more good players will learn how to deal with/against skilled Kung Lao players .....
 
So, I think more and more good players will learn how to deal with/against skilled Kung Lao players .....

But you see, we need to learn how to deal with Kung Lao, but Kung Lao players almost don't need to learn how to deal with everyone else. =/

If Kung Lao had a really bad ass look and only took half damage from any attack, he could easily be a really cheap boss character.
 
Magna you could apply that to any character on the roster. Increase anyones HP by 100% and they would be absurdly broken to the point of unbeatable.
 
Honestly, picking Kung Lao, Raiden, or Shang Tsung does not make you noobish. It's just who you pick. Does picking Baraka or Sheeva make you dumb because you picked a low tier character, so says the tier whores? I can play quite well with Sheeva, and nobody expects it online because everybody says she sucks.
 
I pick who I think looks cool and flows well with my style of play.

Sometimes on a move I think I can utilize...and looks hype. In Soul Calibur I played with Voldo for this reason only.

Speed is often a large factor in my choices. Immobile characters I personally struggle with. Reptile was hard to play with before I realized his elbow dash could be used to make up space with little repercussions.

I think tier list are ok to see where my characters fall according to 'experts'.
 
Ok everybody knows that Kung Lao is probably the best character in this game. Let's face it, he has every tool in the game to counter-act and cause any situation.

Then you have Sheeva, who is underestimated but put at the bottom of the tier list.

If you pick Kung Lao and win, does that consider you a noob? I can't think of another word to use but it's like a handicap. You pick the best character in the game and like I said above, has every tool possible. It's like bowling and using a 2 pound ball with bumpers. No matter where you bowl, you are bound to hit a pin or two without straining yourself.

If you pick Sheeva and win, does that make you boss? You use a character that doesn't have a whole lot to work with yet you win. Back to the bowling analogy, it's like picking a ball too heavy for you without the bumpers on.

Any ideas on choosing tier characters just based on tiers?

This thread is like...made for flamewars. I also think u overestimate kung lao a great deal.
 
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