Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

  1. #1
    Kombatant ]{0MBAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    165
    PSN
    kombatpavilion
    Thanked: 65
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    This is a debate that comes up from time to time, and with the hype of both of these characters returning for MK11, seems like a good time to explore this subject and settle it once and for all!

    For the most in-depth, in-detail, Mortal Kombat lore analysis vids, there's only one source:


  2. The Following User Says Thank You to ]{0MBAT For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Special Forces Agent Yellow Ledbetter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Brazil
    Age
    25
    Posts
    3,120
    PSN
    AMULETofSHINNOK
    Steam
    YellowLedbetter
    Thanked: 780
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    Shinnok.

    MKX is very clear that "Shao Kahn followed Shinnok's footsteps".

    Also, in MK:A, Taven knows Shinnok from the times where he was alongside the other Elder Gods, and Shao Kahn wasn't an invader of Earthrealm at the time. After Argus captures Taven, he still mentions that Shao Kahn showing interest on Earthrealm (where Taven was) was "very unlikely", as he was still occupied with Edenia.

  4. #3
    Shaolin Monk Jion_Wansu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,180
    Thanked: 37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    Shinnok and Taven were friends

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Jion_Wansu For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Mortal Kombat Champion Tarkatan Trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Up Daisy Ridley's skirt
    Age
    35
    Posts
    9,876
    PSN
    Romo2Witten1983
    Thanked: 1699
    Mentioned
    150 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Ledbetter View Post
    Shinnok.

    MKX is very clear that "Shao Kahn followed Shinnok's footsteps".

    Also, in MK:A, Taven knows Shinnok from the times where he was alongside the other Elder Gods, and Shao Kahn wasn't an invader of Earthrealm at the time. After Argus captures Taven, he still mentions that Shao Kahn showing interest on Earthrealm (where Taven was) was "very unlikely", as he was still occupied with Edenia.
    Let's also consult the original instruction manual of Mythologies.



    And there you have it.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tarkatan Trash For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Special Forces Agent Yellow Ledbetter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Brazil
    Age
    25
    Posts
    3,120
    PSN
    AMULETofSHINNOK
    Steam
    YellowLedbetter
    Thanked: 780
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkatan Trash View Post
    Let's also consult the original instruction manual of Mythologies.



    And there you have it.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Fantastic finding!

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Yellow Ledbetter For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Mortal Kombat Champion Tarkatan Trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Up Daisy Ridley's skirt
    Age
    35
    Posts
    9,876
    PSN
    Romo2Witten1983
    Thanked: 1699
    Mentioned
    150 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Ledbetter View Post
    Fantastic finding!
    I actually used to have the instruction manual for the N64 port, but eventually lost it. Luckily, I bought the Playstation port a couple of years ago at a retro game store, complete with the original case and instruction manual. One thing is clear; I still vividly remember the first sentence of the game's story in the instruction manual...

    Shao Kahn wasn't the first to attack our realm...

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tarkatan Trash For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Kombatant ]{0MBAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    165
    PSN
    kombatpavilion
    Thanked: 65
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?



    Oh, yeah, there is no way I would do a video about this topic without including that epic line -- pretty much right up front (at 00:49)
    For the most in-depth, in-detail, Mortal Kombat lore analysis vids, there's only one source:


  13. #8
    Tarkatan Warrior mattteo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Age
    39
    Posts
    266
    Thanked: 45
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    Yes, of course Shinnok attacked Earthrealm before Shao Kahn.

    But the bigger question is: was Shao Kahn already attacking Edenia before Shinnok attacked Earthrealm? Obviously yes. Shinnok was still an Elder God when Shao Kahn was attacking Edenia and he was pushed back for a while by the family of the Protector God and the dragons Orin and Caro (Edenia had some strength to resist Shao Kahn with Taven, Daegon, King Jerrod etc.)

    We know all this happened 10.000 years ago. So, Shinnok must have attacked Earthrealm around that period too, cause it was after Shao Kahn attacked Edenia.

    All evidence points to this from what Raiden says in MK4. Then, Johnny Cage t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ got drunk and said it was "millions of years ago" in the intro of MKX.

    Naturally I'd rather take Johnny as an unreliable narrator who would only know the stories he had been told and I chose to believe Raiden in the intro of MK4 and the Mythologies Book, which give the First War with Shinnok at "thousands of years ago".

    It would also be dumb for Fujin to be millions of years old, just guarding a Temple all this time. And even Reiko to be millions of years old, cause his bio in MK4 says he was "Once thought killed in Shinnok's war with the Elder Gods....


    10.000 looks much more possible, especially as there has been a catacysmic event in real recorded history of Earth which is known as the Great Flood in many religions, dated by historians 8.000 years BC
    Last edited by mattteo; 04-10-2019 at 10:44 AM.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to mattteo For This Useful Post:


  15. #9
    Mortal Kombat Champion Tarkatan Trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Up Daisy Ridley's skirt
    Age
    35
    Posts
    9,876
    PSN
    Romo2Witten1983
    Thanked: 1699
    Mentioned
    150 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattteo View Post
    Yes, of course Shinnok attacked Earthrealm before Shao Kahn.

    But the bigger question is: was Shao Kahn already attacking Edenia before Shinnok attacked Earthrealm? Obviously yes. Shinnok was still an Elder God when Shao Kahn was attacking Edenia and he was pushed back for a while by the family of the Protector God and the dragons Orin and Caro (Edenia had some strength to resist Shao Kahn with Taven, Daegon, King Jerrod etc.)

    We know all this happened 10.000 years ago. So, Shinnok must have attacked Earthrealm around that period too, cause it was after Shao Kahn attacked Edenia.

    All evidence points to this from what Raiden says in MK4. Then, Johnny Cage t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ got drunk and said it was "millions of years ago" in the intro of MKX.

    Naturally I'd rather take Johnny as an unreliable narrator who would only know the stories he had been told and I chose to believe Raiden in the intro of MK4 and the Mythologies Book, which give the First War with Shinnok at "thousands of years ago".

    It would also be dumb for Fujin to be millions of years old, just guarding a Temple all this time. And even Reiko to be millions of years old, cause his bio in MK4 says he was "Once thought killed in Shinnok's war with the Elder Gods....


    10.000 looks much more possible, especially as there has been a catacysmic event in real recorded history of Earth which is known as the Great Flood in many religions, dated by historians 8.000 years BC
    Johnny Cage isn't the only one who claimed Shinnok's attack to have happened millions of years ago. Shinnok made the same claim in his own MK4 ending.



    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  16. #10
    Tarkatan Warrior mattteo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Age
    39
    Posts
    266
    Thanked: 45
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkatan Trash View Post
    Johnny Cage isn't the only one who claimed Shinnok's attack to have happened millions of years ago. Shinnok made the same claim in his own MK4 ending.



    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

    Yes, I'm aware of that. Notice though that:

    1. this is coming from a person who had been trapped in Hell and originally tormented there by Lucifer. So he could actually be saying how it felt to him.

    2. this is the Netherrealm and time there flows differently, therefore appearing much longer to its inhabitants

    3. it is an ending, so any stupid things said in it might not even matter

    4. in order for things to make sense, like I said, for Fujin not to be stuck in a Temple for millions of years and Raiden to be guarding over HomoErectus and Neanderthals, for Reiko not to be millions of years old and for Argus of Edenia not to have lived for other millions of years more after already being old in the Armageddon konquest mode first scene, then it has to be "thousands of years ago", not "millions of years"

    5. "thousands of years ago" is also said in many occasions: the page posted above from the MK4 manual, right the first allignement. also, the MK4 intro narrated by Raiden

  17. #11
    Kombatant ]{0MBAT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    165
    PSN
    kombatpavilion
    Thanked: 65
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    Of course that Shinnok ending is important.
    I specifically made reference to that as well.
    I included it at 2:53.

    I definitely made sure to cover all this stuff!
    And more! I'm pretty sure I didn't leave anything out that was super-releveant.
    For the most in-depth, in-detail, Mortal Kombat lore analysis vids, there's only one source:


  18. #12
    Tarkatan Warrior mattteo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Age
    39
    Posts
    266
    Thanked: 45
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)

    Re: Shinnok vs. Shao Kahn: Who started invading first?

    @Tabmok99, you know I have the utmost respect for you. Your video was at a high standard, as always.

    I may not agree to the conclusion you reached, but you do know the MK lore perhaps better than anyone. I really enjoyed the vid.

    Maybe you could have gone more in detail about the consequences on some characters if that had happened millions of years ago instead of thousands.

    You could have brought up how many characters should be millions of years old. We know of Raiden (described as a young god in the Mythologies book, but that wouldn't contradict anythhing either way), Fujin, Reiko, but also there was Argus, Daegon would be millions of years old if he was awakened soon after entombement, Shao Kahn would have been trying to take Edenia for millions of years (nah, Shao Kahn would never have that patience), Onaga would have been in imemorial times, not able to find a worthy champion like Shujinko to gather the kamidogu all this time. Even Rain would be millions of years old if we go by his MK9 vignette and the War between Edenia and Shao Kahn wasn't exactly 10.000 years ago.

    Maybe when we say the numeber "1 million" it doesn't seem a lot, but if you really think about it, 100 years is already a long time. The wise masters of the shaolin are almost 100 years and they are very old. 1.000 years is almost only for great characters in the lore, like Shang Tsung or probably Bo'Rai Cho. Goro is 2.000 years. 10.000 years....well, imagine how much knowledge someone would have in 10.000 years. We have Kitana, the other Edenians, only Raiden, Shao Kahn, Shinnok, Fujin and Reiko are older than this. Ok, Sindel and King Jerrod in the form of Ermac too.

    But to go further than 50.000 years...... there aren't even record of human civilization on Earth more than 10.000 years ago. To go 100.000 years into the past, or 500.000 years or 1 million years is such a long time that those characters wouldn;t be humans anymore, they'd have transcended to something else, something with much more knowledge. Let alone not 1 million, but 45-65 million years into the past. So, 45 or 65 times that gigantic number 1 million (which by itself is unthinkable in terms of human life and knowledge).......how can we imagine that Reiko or Fujin are that old?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Shao Kahn
    By Jion_Wansu in forum Mortal Kombat Arcade Klassics
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-06-2018, 03:35 AM
  2. Replies: 271
    Last Post: 03-12-2015, 04:51 PM
  3. MK 9 Shao Kahn vs MK II / UMK 3 Shao Kahn
    By Etryus in forum Characters & Gameplay
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-06-2011, 04:06 PM
  4. Shao Kahn
    By Resurrected Curse in forum Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-18-2005, 02:13 PM
  5. Shao Kahn?
    By SycloneFX in forum Mortal Kombat: Deception & Unchained
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-19-2004, 01:03 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •