now that i'm beginning to main Raiden

ENIGMA86

New member
before i used to think that Raiden is a broken character and he's too easy to use..and i thought that only noobs use him...i've seen so many post about why they should nerfed raiden and slow his teleport down...as i begin to use raiden more and more, i realized that raiden didn't have much going for him if they would to nerf his teleport and slow it down...i think the game is already balance..except maybe a little change to stryker, baraka and sheeva to make them more competitive.....at the beginning there are so many people main Kano but i don't see anyone use him anymore after the nerf...that's kind of sad..and i remember how people used to complain that Scorpion is over power because of his hellfire lol...i hope they keep the characters the same except maybe make stryker, baraka and sheeva a little more competitive with the other characters..if they ever nerf reptile's elbom dash then he's done too.....and hopefully they keep Cyrax the way he is..you can zone cyrax out easily since he don't even have good combo and his teleport is garbage...
 
Cyrax NEEDS to be nerfed. Removing his inumerous "resets" won't make him any less good that what he already is. In my opinion, he's borderline broken.

I bet, BET, if Scorpion could do 2 spear resets in the same combo (obviously it wouldn't recognized as a "combo" per se since a second spear to be viable would have to be seen as a new combo but still unavoible as it is for Cyrax's bombs), you wouldn't agree too. I just wished people stopped being biased for their favourite characters.

You cannot zone Cyrax out as easily as you say: it takes my friend 1 simple net for him to kill you. That's just like that: 1 net, it's all it takes. Zone him out - or try to - and be caught by one stupid net and you're done. If he's a good Cyrax player, he'll catch you with one net and will do a stupid combo with a bomb, a new combo starts: no damage scalling whatsoever and unless you can break it you won't be saved, and they'll throw another net you cannot avoid and you'll eat a full 50%-70% life damage. Online that's pretty common. ONLINE! With lag! Damn, I cannot even fart with Nightwolf with that stupid lag and I see Cyrax players doing those combos all the time. And don't let me start with his corner game...

Yeah, keep Cyrax the way he is, there's absolutely nothing wrong with him.

Give Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Quan Chi or Kabal the luxury to have a second reset with no damage scaling too. That'll be a blast let me tell you!

About Raiden, he's just annoying, his teleport is indeed a fantastic tool...
 
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Lol voncroy this is a raiden thread not a nerf cyrax thread.

As many people have said OP. Raiden is just about twice as difficult online than he is offline. People say they have no problems with his gameplay offline. It's the online people are crying about.(although it takes some work I believe if your reflexes are fast enough you can punish teleport on reaction online as well.)

Best you can do is anyone who cries about your character tell them " if it's so easy, use my character against me and beat me"

Thats when you need to win hard to show they know nothing of your character. It's the only real way to defend yourself. Because on paper you're going to look OP when your not really that bad.
 
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and hopefully they keep Cyrax the way he is..you can zone cyrax out easily since he don't even have good combo and his teleport is garbage...

I was replying to this.

If they don't nerf Cyrax, it's fine by me, I accept every defeat I have against Cyrax. I actually love playing against good Cyraxs, they're always a good challenge. If I lose, I'll lose, Cyrax is a fantastic character. He's just not as balanced as people think he is. I can take his teleport is not safe or neither does he have a good wake-up game but, seriously, there are many characters in a worser position (Sindel or Shang Tsung come to my mind).

About Raiden, initially I'd like for his teleport to be nerfed, but now I see his teleport is a great part of his combo gameplay, it's so fast you can teleport in the middle of a combo and keep the combo on. That's pretty sick. The only thing that bothered me was his superman recovery on block. Sometimes he'd be rolling near you and sometimes far from you, they should fix that inconsistency. Neither way, he's annoying, I hate fighting Raidens, but I wouldn't like for his teleport to be nerfed since that would affect his gameplay greatly. It'd be the same thing to ask for Nightwolf's lighting to be blockable - that would make his F2 pretty useless, since that move was made essentially for his enhanced lighting to keep the combo on.
 
I was replying to this.

If they don't nerf Cyrax, it's fine by me, I accept every defeat I have against Cyrax. I actually love playing against good Cyraxs, they're always a good challenge. If I lose, I'll lose, Cyrax is a fantastic character. He's just not as balanced as people think he is. I can take his teleport is not safe or neither does he have a good wake-up game but, seriously, there are many characters in a worser position (Sindel or Shang Tsung come to my mind).

About Raiden, initially I'd like for his teleport to be nerfed, but now I see his teleport is a great part of his combo gameplay, it's so fast you can teleport in the middle of a combo and keep the combo on. That's pretty sick. The only thing that bothered me was his superman recovery on block. Sometimes he'd be rolling near you and sometimes far from you, they should fix that inconsistency. Neither way, he's annoying, I hate fighting Raidens, but I wouldn't like for his teleport to be nerfed since that would affect his gameplay greatly. It'd be the same thing to ask for Nightwolf's lighting to be blockable - that would make his F2 pretty useless, since that move was made essentially for his enhanced lighting to keep the combo on.

I gotcha man I just don't want a instant derail from OPs real concern.

I treat cyrax net like I would a ice climbers grab or jigglypuffs down+b in ssbm. Where if Ice climbers grab you you die, jiggs can kill you in one hit as she can combo into it more ways than 14.

If you make it your priority to not get net. Suddenly his net sucks.

But his other tools increase in value because of the way you're forced to play.
 
lol thanx for your input Voncroy...yes i'm a Cyrax player myself but i consider myself very average..a lot of Cyrax players online are very average..you're right about how a single net can do a lot of damage...it only take two nets to kill the opponent, but it's very hard to catch a good player with a net....a lot of the time when i manage to catch my opponent with a net, a good portion of my life bar is already gone due to all the chip damage and getting zone out by projectiles..he doesn't have good wake up attack and most of his basic combo hit too high that it put him at risk for eating an uppercut...but like you said, maybe i'm bias because i main him lol...
 
When i started maining raiden i noticed that i was winning almost all of my matches (yes hate mail went up too) his teleport is awesome for surprising (is it a surprise?) your opponent with a full jump in punch combo. Before I started maining raiden, raidens were my absolute nightmare but now i can predict what almost every raiden is going to do and have somewhat of a counter to that.

I think raidens teleport is needed, he has one (i think) low hit combo and that hit is right at the end of the combo which cant even be juggled into!
 
The only problem I have with Raiden is that sometimes his Electric Fly when it is blocked puts him vulnerable at an unreackable uppercut distance. I don't uppercut punish with anyone but it's pretty dumb in general.
 
The only problem I have with Raiden is that sometimes his Electric Fly when it is blocked puts him vulnerable at an unreackable uppercut distance. I don't uppercut punish with anyone but it's pretty dumb in general.

Even at that large distance... You still have enough time to WALK over there and full punish him the second he lands. you just gotta notice his distance he's at just as you block it and start reacting immediately.

I don't mean you armon when I say this, but people asking for patches and stuff are just extremely lazy... Kung lao's spin was already full punishable when blocked. Even with a somewhat slow opening. You just have to be immediately dashing in ASAP out of block stun. All they are doing now with the making kung lao easier to punish on spin... Is closing the gap between newblets and pros.

You don't see top players crying about spin push back. That's all low level players.

It's somewhat similar to raiden man. both version you can full combo off of(Close and Far). And it's dependant on how far raiden was away from you when he did it.
 
But that's an inconsistency. Kung Lao's spin when blocked has the same effect for everyone else. Raiden's superman does not. If you dash if he is rolling close, you'll miss the combo. You still have to react fast. It wouldn't really hurt if Raiden just had the same position after his superman is blocked, would it? I problem don't really see the problem with that, it's barely a "nerf" for Raiden by itself. Literally, everyone else rolls near you after their special is blocked, why would Raiden be different? I don't get it.

Now, Kung Lao's spin is fine, at the beginning before patches it was almost unbearable...
 
I think in order for Raiden to be balanced, they should:

1. Make his electric fly more punishable on block, make it the same as Scorpion or Smoke's teleport attacks. (within throw/sweep range).

2. Make his teleport send him behind the opponent, but out of sweep/throw range.

I praise NRS for nerfing Kung Lao's spin, but they nerfed it in the wrong way. Nerfing it on block isn't a big deal, because most of the time it hits people, it's too fast to block. What they need to do is nerf it for when it whiffs.

Also your guys' Cyrax points are valid, but it's not that hard to beat a Cyrax player. Learn his style, and adapt. Also use breakers, they are there for a reason. Use better meter management.
 
But that's an inconsistency. Kung Lao's spin when blocked has the same effect for everyone else. Raiden's superman does not. If you dash if he is rolling close, you'll miss the combo. You still have to react fast. It wouldn't really hurt if Raiden just had the same position after his superman is blocked, would it? I problem don't really see the problem with that, it's barely a "nerf" for Raiden by itself. Literally, everyone else rolls near you after their special is blocked, why would Raiden be different? I don't get it.

Now, Kung Lao's spin is fine, at the beginning before patches it was almost unbearable...

That just bridges the gap between newbs and pros man. You can punish raiden on reaction EVERY SINGLE TIME NO ERRORS. It's your own fault for missing it.

I don't think it's Random inconsistency. I think it's spacing based. I don't think raiden RANDOMLY is sometimes far and sometimes not. It depends on where he started it/ what character you have (Some characters blocks are further out from their body than others Reptile/Ermac for example.)

the reason smoke/scorpion is the same everytime is because no matter where they teleport (At start)... they come at you from behind "at the same distance EVERYTIME"


IMO scorpions and smokes should be slightly HARDER to punish. Still full combo punishable but slightly harder.

Fighting games should be about mixing/mindgames/spacing/DMG output/DMG reduction(blocking/avoiding damage)/ and.... Your ability to have FAST REFLEXES.

If you can hit confirm with ermac's JiP and do 3,1,2 or grab if they block. On command w/o ever messing up. I'd like to think you can punish raiden's teleport on a smaller window.


EDIT: @ IMMORTAL REAVER:
You can full punish on his whiff as well.
 
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That just bridges the gap between newbs and pros man. You can punish raiden on reaction EVERY SINGLE TIME NO ERRORS. It's your own fault for missing it.

I don't think it's Random inconsistency. I think it's spacing based. I don't think raiden RANDOMLY is sometimes far and sometimes not. It depends on where he started it/ what character you have (Some characters blocks are further out from their body than others Reptile/Ermac for example.)
Still don't understand what is exactly the problem to make the recovery time for his superman on block the same for every situation. I actually don't really remember a similar case for any other character. That's hardly a question of "nerfing" Raiden. And btw, it's great to talk about newbs and pros, but I don't really understand why you're mentioning them in most of your posts every single time. Even if pros don't see the problem with Raiden's moves (many didn't really see the problem with Kung Lao in beginning also LOL), they're not the most part of people who play this game and - again - it really wouldn't hurt Raiden to fix that. He's undoubtely top 5 in the game.

The same special move on block has different recovery positions. Strange and odd to say the least.
 
Still don't understand what is exactly the problem to make the recovery time for his superman on block the same for every situation. I actually don't really remember a similar case for any other character. That's hardly a question of "nerfing" Raiden. And btw, it's great to talk about newbs and pros, but I don't really understand why you're mentioning them in most of your posts every single time. Even if pros don't see the problem with Raiden's moves (many didn't really see the problem with Kung Lao in beginning also LOL), they're not the most part of people who play this game and - again - it really wouldn't hurt Raiden to fix that. He's undoubtely top 5 in the game.

The same special move on block has different recovery positions. Strange and odd to say the least.

It bridges the gap between Newbs and pros.

If you don't understand why, then you don't understand depth. No offense but it just sounds like everyone wants things done easier for them cuz they are lazy. Might as well make it so you can save a combo in training mode and load it on your stance button so all you gotta do is hit 1 button for a full combo punish.

That's an extreme example but I used it because apparently its too hard to see it on a small level.

It's essentially stealing depth away at smaller levels if everything is handled that way I'm gonna quit this game. That kind of stuff only makes things more shallow.

The difference is if raidens of 2 equal skill fight minus the fact one of them has problems punishing a far away recovering electric fly. The other one has a quicker reaction time, the guy with the better skill should win out. All they are doing is making the guy who sucks on the same level as the guy who put in work and was able to do it w/o the nerf.
 
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EDIT: @ IMMORTAL REAVER:
You can full punish on his whiff as well.

Hi, Im new to this forum but when I read that I just HAD to sign up. Superman is almost 100% UNPUNISHABLE on whiff, by the time you've jumped over it there is absolutely NO WAY to punish. Not even a smoke bomb is fast enough unless you've predicted the superman and jumped before your opponent has done the move. Raidens teleport is fine but its a bloody get out of jail free card on wakeup.
 
Hi, Im new to this forum but when I read that I just HAD to sign up. Superman is almost 100% UNPUNISHABLE on whiff, by the time you've jumped over it there is absolutely NO WAY to punish. Not even a smoke bomb is fast enough unless you've predicted the superman and jumped before your opponent has done the move. Raidens teleport is fine but its a bloody get out of jail free card on wakeup.

Um.. He was talking about Kung Laos spin bro.
 
woah, woah, woah!! did you say cyrax doesnt have a good combo?!?! xD 70%+ isnt good anymore??

but i do agree the game is fine where it is, but there are a few broken characters, cyrax, reptile just to name a couple
but i think thats what makes the game fun! dealing and or playing as that character
 
woah, woah, woah!! did you say cyrax doesnt have a good combo?!?! xD 70%+ isnt good anymore??

but i do agree the game is fine where it is, but there are a few broken characters, cyrax, reptile just to name a couple
but i think thats what makes the game fun! dealing and or playing as that character

I wanna say I THINK he meant good strings (combo)

Not actual real combos. He may not have known to call them strings.
 
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