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Thread: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

  1. #21
    Black Dragon Recruit Vulcan Hades's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    Quote Originally Posted by navi24 View Post
    why do fighting games dont include frame data on practice mode, i dont undersantd. damage,location, hits ect its great but frame data its the most essential part of training mode for any fighting game.
    No clue. I would also like them to include frame data in practice mode and give an option to make the hitboxes and hittable boxes visible. That would be godlike. We can only hope they do this for MK10.

    In NRS's case, there's 3 main possibilities:

    1. They don't even know their own frame data (maybe they didn't keep track of it for whatever reason)

    2. They're too ashamed to release the info (because it looks bad and amateurish)

    3. Too many variables might indirectly affect frame data (like stance, crouching, hittable boxes) making it almost impossible to calculate.

    I personally think it's #2. If NRS decided to release frame data on day 1, then it would've made them look extremely bad and unprofessional. Because the frame data would've made all the block infinites and jail strings visible. So at that point making it public would be like showing the world how buggy the game really is.

    But the fact that they didn't know about the Jax and Raiden block infinite gives me good reason to believe they don't even have frame data or don't know how to use it.

    Maybe they'll release the info after they've fixed all the problems and balanced the game. But I wouldn't get my hopes up. They already said in the past they had no intention in ever releasing frame data.
    Last edited by Vulcan Hades; 07-18-2011 at 08:41 AM.

  2. #22
    Shaolin Monk yautjared's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    @ Vulcan Hades :

    Agreed, NRS seems to have none interesting in deep analysis regarding Frame Data, and, let things the way they are ..... so, dedicated MK players try to discover that and show off for the rest of the MK community, and this, help a lot of others players .... thumbs up.
    Skarlet : Kunoichi warrior, Kodachi master, Kunai expert.

  3. #23
    Kombatant Pakman's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan Hades View Post
    No clue. I would also like them to include frame data in practice mode and give an option to make the hitboxes and hittable boxes visible..
    I hope every fighting game ever released from now on includes this data in their game (via training mode or some such). It makes it so much easier to understand why x attack beats y and saves a LOT of nerd rage when you can see visibly the hit box of a specific move.

    Frame data is also very important. It's such a shame NR didn't include either of the two, but I do hope they will add it into mk10.

    Good thread.

  4. #24
    Black Dragon Recruit Vulcan Hades's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    First post updated with additional info and more calculation methods.

    And for the hardcore ones that wanna try out DrDogg's calculation method, here's a list of moves you can use:

    -Sub Zero's D,B,1 (2 start up)
    -Kung Lao's D,F,1, Reptile's B,F,2 or Kitana's D1 (6 start up)
    -Johnny Cage's uppercut or Kung Lao's D1 (7 start up)
    -Raiden's B,F,3 (8 start up)
    -Johnny Cage's D,B,3 (9 start up)
    -Throw or Nightwolf's F,F,4 (10 start up)*
    -Reptile's 2 or Kabal's uppercut (11 start up) *
    -Reptile's B,F,4 or Kabal's D4 (12 start up)
    -Kenshi's 3 or Scorpion's B,B,1 (13 start up)
    -Kenshi's D,B,1 (14 start up)

    *Might need something better here..
    Last edited by Vulcan Hades; 07-19-2011 at 10:37 AM.

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    Shaolin Monk yautjared's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    would like to know what(s) the move(s) is (are) the fastest and consume less possible frame data of all .......

    Heard that anything with less than 8 frames total (including start up) is insanely fast and explicity frame advantage against almost anything
    Skarlet : Kunoichi warrior, Kodachi master, Kunai expert.

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    Shaolin Monk Zoidberg747's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    There is a lot of moves under 8 frames(one for almost every character) But ill post the ones below 6 frames:

    Kung Lao:
    FK(while teleporting)-5 frames

    Sonya:
    EX d+4 (air) - ~5 (on standing opponent)

    Sub Zero:
    Ice clone-2 (39 frames before the block animation begins, 45 before Sub can attack, clone stays out for 150 frames)
    EXice clone-2(34 frames before the block animation begins, 40 before Sub can attack, clone stays out for 240 frames)

    Those are the ones that stand out, like I said most characters have at least 1 attack that is 8 frames or under, so just check their frame data (unless it doesnt have frame data lol)

    MK9: Baraka, Kano, Sindel
    SCV: Mitsurugi, Pyrrha Omega
    Tekken 6: Jack 6, Roger Jr.

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    Black Dragon Recruit Vulcan Hades's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    The fastest attacks are between 6 and 8 frames. Those attacks are what you use to space out rushdown obviously. 9-13 is average speed. Then anything above that is starting to be pretty slow. Throws have 10 start up. People with decent reaction skills can react to throws and tech them obviously. So that means anything 9-10 frames or above can be reacted to. 7-8 frames and under it's almost impossible to react to.

    You can test/practice your reaction in sites like these: http://www.steriley.com/speed/

    Fun facts:

    - You would need less than 200 ms to block Reptile's Elbow Dash on reaction
    - Average reaction time for a normal person is around 250-300 milliseconds.
    - Anything under 180 miliseconds is considered exceptional (you would be a Jedi).
    - Navy Top Gun fighter pilots typically score between 200 and 225 milliseconds.
    - Average reaction time for the drinkers with a blood alcohol level of 0.057 percent was 263 milliseconds .
    - Average reaction time of the alcohol-impaired group [0.089%] was 294 milliseconds, while the average for the sleep-deprived groups was 300 milliseconds. [without alcohol their reaction is 61 ms quicker = 233 ms).
    Last edited by Vulcan Hades; 07-19-2011 at 10:38 AM.

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    Tarkatan Warrior BrokenJanders's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    There's no jade data DDDDDDDD:

    DO A BARREL ROLL!

  9. #29
    Shaolin Monk Flagg's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    I'm very curious to see Sheevas frame data and any of the ninjas with a slide move.

    Sheeva can punish characters on block with her low grab, characters who have moves where they fall to the ground, Mileenas ball for example. However she CANNOT low grab SZ slide if she blocks it. I've tried dozens of time, even with her EX low grab and no grab which seems strange to me.

  10. #30
    Black Dragon Recruit Vulcan Hades's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flagg View Post
    I'm very curious to see Sheevas frame data and any of the ninjas with a slide move.

    Sheeva can punish characters on block with her low grab, characters who have moves where they fall to the ground, Mileenas ball for example. However she CANNOT low grab SZ slide if she blocks it. I've tried dozens of time, even with her EX low grab and no grab which seems strange to me.
    Sheeva's specials execution frames:

    d,f+2 - 26 (57 from full screen)
    d,u - 58
    d,b+4 - 39
    b,f+3 - 25
    d,f+1 - 17
    d,b+3 - 22


    I know for a fact that I can punish Sub-Zero's slide with Stryker's B2 (which has 19 start up). So D,F,1 should be able to punish it. If D,B,3 can't punish Slide in time, then I'm guessing Sub-Zero's Slide is around -20 or -21 on block.

    A few Sheeva combo strings that should be able to punish Sub's slide on block:

    -1,2,B1
    -1,B2,F1
    -2,1,2,F1
    -3,3

  11. #31
    Defender of EarthRealm Critical-Limit's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    Why haven't I noticed this thread. This Is a epic thread and you put a lot of work into it Vulcan.

    When I got time I'll try to help find some data.

  12. #32
    Tarkatan Warrior BrokenJanders's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical-Limit View Post
    Why haven't I noticed this thread. This Is a epic thread and you put a lot of work into it Vulcan.

    When I got time I'll try to help find some data.
    jade data?? :D

    DO A BARREL ROLL!

  13. #33
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenJanders View Post
    jade data?? :D
    Of course I'd do Jade first LOL. Like I would do someone else's main first. PFFT

  14. #34
    Elder God Shirayuki Mizore's Avatar
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    Re: Frame Data (for people that want to learn it)

    Holy pony.... lol epic thread Vulcan

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