Vulcan Hades
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What is Frame Data
Here's the gist of it:
Start up/Execution frames = Speed of the attack
Active frames = Duration of the attack
Recovery frames = Cool down before you can move, attack or block again
Stun frames = Duration in which you cannot move or respond (but you can still block in MK9 unless it's a chain)
All attacks inflict hitstun / blockstun which leave you either at +frames or at -frames. And players with frame advantage can attack/respond sooner.
ex: An attack that leaves you at -7 disadvantage on block can be punished by Kung Lao's Spin (which has 6 start up).
That's really all you need to understand for starters. But here's a video that explains it all more clearly:
Make sure to check the next part too. The guy is talking about SSF4, but frame data is a universal thing for all fighting games.
On a side note, hitstun isn't exactly the same for SF and MK9. In MK9 some attacks inflict a stagger state in which you cannot move, jump or respond, but you can still instantly block. This is why you cannot combo a D1 into another D1 like in SF even though you have enough +frame advantage.
What frame data can be used for
-knowing what is punishable on block
-designing frame traps*
-figuring out what pokes to use in footsies*
-finding out the best blockstrings* for your character
-finding block infinites* and jail strings*
-knowing your best tools to space out rushdown or create space
-knowing what meaty attacks* are better
I will probably go over those terms in another post...
Calculating Frame Data
Now for people interested and wanna try calculating frame data by themselves, these are the various calculation methods currently used:
Execution Frames Calculation Method:
Record at 60 frames per second
Advantage on hit/on block Calculation Method:
Method 1: The Jump Method:
You attack the CPU dummy then when he's in hitstun/blockstun you set AI settings to "no block" and "jump". Then hold up. Both characters will start jumping as soon as they have recovered, but sometimes the CPU won't jump right away, which is why ideally you want to test it a few times to make sure the CPU jumps on the earliest of frames. It's also much easier if you have someone on human holding up for you the whole time (or do it yourself with another controller).
You do it twice for each attack (one for adv. on hit and one for adv. on block) and you record it at 60 frames per second. Then all you need to do is play back frame by frame and calculate the difference. For example, if my character starts jumping 5 frames earlier than my opponent on block, then that means the attack is +5 on block. You can start measuring frames on the start of the jump, on the peak of the jump, or when they land. It doesn't really matter, all you need to know is the difference in frames.
Why the jump method? Because in theory when you recover from stun as soon as you can jump you can also attack. So this gives you a pretty decent estimate of frame advantage. Though it's not 100% accurate (1-2f margin of error).
Important things to note:
Method 2: DrDogg's way:
Here's some moves you can use for this method:
-Sub Zero's D,B,1 (2 start up)
-Kung Lao's D,F,1, Reptile's B,F,2 or Kitana's D1 (6 start up)
-Johnny Cage's uppercut or Kung Lao's D1 (7 start up)
-Raiden's B,F,3 (8 start up)
-Johnny Cage's D,B,3 (9 start up)
-Throw or Nightwolf's F,F,4 (10 start up)*
-Reptile's 2 or Kabal's uppercut (11 start up) *
-Reptile's B,F,4 or Kabal's D4 (12 start up)
-Kenshi's 3 or Scorpion's B,B,1 (13 start up)
-Kenshi's D,B,1 (14 start up)
Hope this will encourage more people to test with their own characters and get their own frame data out.
Frame Data project on TYM: http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?4950-MK9-Frame-Data-Project
Here's the gist of it:
Start up/Execution frames = Speed of the attack
Active frames = Duration of the attack
Recovery frames = Cool down before you can move, attack or block again
Stun frames = Duration in which you cannot move or respond (but you can still block in MK9 unless it's a chain)
All attacks inflict hitstun / blockstun which leave you either at +frames or at -frames. And players with frame advantage can attack/respond sooner.
ex: An attack that leaves you at -7 disadvantage on block can be punished by Kung Lao's Spin (which has 6 start up).
That's really all you need to understand for starters. But here's a video that explains it all more clearly:
Make sure to check the next part too. The guy is talking about SSF4, but frame data is a universal thing for all fighting games.
On a side note, hitstun isn't exactly the same for SF and MK9. In MK9 some attacks inflict a stagger state in which you cannot move, jump or respond, but you can still instantly block. This is why you cannot combo a D1 into another D1 like in SF even though you have enough +frame advantage.
What frame data can be used for
-knowing what is punishable on block
-designing frame traps*
-figuring out what pokes to use in footsies*
-finding out the best blockstrings* for your character
-finding block infinites* and jail strings*
-knowing your best tools to space out rushdown or create space
-knowing what meaty attacks* are better
I will probably go over those terms in another post...
Calculating Frame Data
Now for people interested and wanna try calculating frame data by themselves, these are the various calculation methods currently used:
Execution Frames Calculation Method:
Record at 60 frames per second
Sprint said:1. First frame: The frame where the limb glows red, or the frame before the button press is displayed.
2. First active frame: The frame before the damage display appears, or the frame where the opponent starts to recoil.
3. First cancelled frame: The first frame of a special move when cancelled into, identified by the red limb. Can also be located by finding the frame on which the special hits and subtracting its startup.
Startup = First active frame - First frame
Execution = Startup + 1
Cancelled duration = First cancelled frame - First frame
Duration = First fully recovered frame - First frame
Advantage on hit/on block Calculation Method:
Method 1: The Jump Method:
Sprint said:Frame advantage: Hold up with both players and measure the difference between the jumping animations. In my case I controlled P2 with my feet to speed things up, but if you want you can pause the moment an attack hits and start holding up on both controllers during the pause menu.
You attack the CPU dummy then when he's in hitstun/blockstun you set AI settings to "no block" and "jump". Then hold up. Both characters will start jumping as soon as they have recovered, but sometimes the CPU won't jump right away, which is why ideally you want to test it a few times to make sure the CPU jumps on the earliest of frames. It's also much easier if you have someone on human holding up for you the whole time (or do it yourself with another controller).
You do it twice for each attack (one for adv. on hit and one for adv. on block) and you record it at 60 frames per second. Then all you need to do is play back frame by frame and calculate the difference. For example, if my character starts jumping 5 frames earlier than my opponent on block, then that means the attack is +5 on block. You can start measuring frames on the start of the jump, on the peak of the jump, or when they land. It doesn't really matter, all you need to know is the difference in frames.
Why the jump method? Because in theory when you recover from stun as soon as you can jump you can also attack. So this gives you a pretty decent estimate of frame advantage. Though it's not 100% accurate (1-2f margin of error).
Important things to note:
Sprint said:There appears to be a 1 frame transition between crouching and standing that I overlooked.
Kitana's d+1 is -1 on hit.
According to the jump method it's -2 (apparently the "animation fluff" made you misidentify it)
Method 2: DrDogg's way:
As you can see he uses a more complicated calculation method but this gives him more accurate numbers than the jump method.DrDogg said:What I will be doing to test hit/block frame data (as soon as I find my PS3 component cable, or buy another one -_-) is to get execution data for all characters first, then perform an attack and see if it can be punished by the fastest attack in the game (Raiden's Superman, I believe). If it can't be punished, I then look for an attack that is one frame slower than Kitana's fastest move. I perform the move I'm testing, then mash Kitana's fastest attack and the selected attack to see which one wins. If the other attack wins, I move to an attack that is one frame slower and test again. I continue this process until I find an attack that Kitana beats, then add 1 frame to make up for the no trade issue. Does that make sense?
Here's some moves you can use for this method:
-Sub Zero's D,B,1 (2 start up)
-Kung Lao's D,F,1, Reptile's B,F,2 or Kitana's D1 (6 start up)
-Johnny Cage's uppercut or Kung Lao's D1 (7 start up)
-Raiden's B,F,3 (8 start up)
-Johnny Cage's D,B,3 (9 start up)
-Throw or Nightwolf's F,F,4 (10 start up)*
-Reptile's 2 or Kabal's uppercut (11 start up) *
-Reptile's B,F,4 or Kabal's D4 (12 start up)
-Kenshi's 3 or Scorpion's B,B,1 (13 start up)
-Kenshi's D,B,1 (14 start up)
Hope this will encourage more people to test with their own characters and get their own frame data out.
Frame Data project on TYM: http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?4950-MK9-Frame-Data-Project
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